Lineage II - female mage

polycounter lvl 6
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Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 6
Most Recent Update:
lineageIIfemaleWIP10.jpg
lineageIIfemaleWIP11.jpg


Refference (ARTIST: Juno Jeong) : http://static1.minitokyo.net/view/23/07/227873.jpg
Hey, Decided to break off and start a new thread for this
Original thread: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99012
Working on the female human mage character from Lineage II as realized in the book The ARK: Lineage II Illustrations.

Thinking of finishing the sculpt but really hoping for some thoughs/crits on this one so anything is appreciated!

lineageIIfemaleWIP5.jpg
lineageIIfemaleWIP4.jpg

Replies

  • JamesWarren
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    JamesWarren polycounter lvl 5
    Hey that looks really great, I like it! The only crit I can give is that her belly button seems a bit too flat / smooth.
  • duncan
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    duncan polycounter lvl 8
    Looking really nice. My only thought is the back looks a bit bland compared to the front. It looks like a perfect spot for some crazy laces.

    03-ribbonlaces.jpg

    I am keen to see some more.
  • afisher
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    afisher polycounter lvl 6
    Looking good man. I agree with what Duncan is sayin though. Maybe continue some of those ornate design elements around to the back. Great job so far
  • Spatz
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    Spatz polycounter lvl 7
    nice work ... i like the face a lot ...

    agree with duncan about the laces on the back
  • jmt
    Cool! Looks good so far. Is her mouth in that position for a reason? It looks a bit unusual to me. How detailed is the hair going to be?
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 6
    JamesWarren - thanks, hopefully the belly buttons looking more defined now.
    duncan, afisher, Spatz - wow, great idea. this is why I post on this forum :) hopefully this is working now
    jmt - thanks man, yeah I got some crits to tone down the poutyface look so hopefully its reigned in enough. Idk the reff im going off has that expression so I wanted to make her face look that way so that I wouldn't be moving the verts too far off their original position when I do the final beauty shot. let me know if this is looking better.

    I also got some crits about the side flaps and that they interrupted her feminine lines and made her look odd. so I thought if I floated them off the surface more it might make it more clear that they were hanging, what do you guys think?
    tumblr_m79spt7m6l1qhpo5bo1_r1_1280.jpg
    tumblr_m79spt7m6l1qhpo5bo2_r1_1280.jpg

  • Saman
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    Saman polycounter lvl 7
    It's looking great, Dylan. Still some more work to do and here are some tips on what to change;

    - Her hands are a tad too small. I would also suggest rotating the arms away from the body somewhat more so that it's a 45 degree angle. Makes it easier to work with and rig afterwards.

    - Widen up her shoulders a little bit so her head doesn't come off as big

    - The armor parts on the sides of the stomach should be more separated from the body in order to give her a better silhouette. 40-45 degree angle should be enough. Give it a try and see how it looks.

    - As much as I'm for following a concept exactly I think you would benefit from changing the design of the clothes here a little. The dress has all these nice metallic details on the front and sides yet almost nothing on its back. It almost looks like somebody has ripped some parts off of her back and she has decided to sew together the dress with some cords. I'd suggest adding a metallic shape to her back as well.

    - The hair is my biggest peeve at the moment. It just looks messy and I suggest redoing it entirely. Create a more spheric mesh and sculpt that instead of having those separate segments. Just my two cents but I doubt you'll regret it.

    - The cloth parts under her skirt should be more wavy.

    Could you link the concept art in the opening post so that people can compare?

    Great stuff nonetheless. I like that face of hers.
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 6
    Well, Saman already said everything ^^.

    The metal parts under the "breastplate" really break the silhouette, we just don't see the waist, it's the most important thing to change imo, that and the hair.

    But nice work anyway ^^.
  • Dan!
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    Dan! polycounter lvl 6
    I like where this is headed. Personally I feel the back of her skirt could use some adornment similar to some of the designs of the front and the corset could have more tension. Keep it up!
  • praetor187
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    praetor187 polycounter lvl 6
    this is looking really great so far. I think making the side pieces float is doing a nice job in accentuating the figure and makes the silhouette more interesting. Keep it up its looking really great so far.:)
  • erroldynamic
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    erroldynamic polycounter lvl 12
    Looks great man! Off hand, I can't really think of anything else to add that hasn't been stated already. Keep going in the direction you're headed!
  • Notes
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    Notes polycounter lvl 4
    Wow this brings me back...played this game for years..makes me want to attempt a character from L2 as well. It's coming out really nicely. I wasn't sure how closely you are trying to stay to the original design and all but I found some screen shots of the Dark Crystal Robes that might be of use for the back...
    dcfmlhm.jpg
    dark_crystal_robe.jpg
    Granted the set looks slightly different from female fighter to female mage...I was trying to find a screenshot of the back for a mage wearing this set but couldn't. And installing an 8 gig game isnt an option at the moment :P
    Just a side thought but I think you should give her a Sword of Miracles and the DC shield as well :) that was the gear to have as a mage.
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 6
    thanks for those notes, didn't have that one of the fighter lady.
    Im trying to stay as close as possible to the version illustrated by Juno Jeong in the ARK
    http://gallery.minitokyo.net/view/227873
    seems like all the same stuff, but hes essentially "unbuttoned" or loosened up all the tight form fitting layers to create a more floaty look, hopefully Ill be able to capture that, and put my own touches here and there without straying too far from the original

    And Thanks for the crits everyone! I'll be updating as soon as possible
  • makecg
    it's really good, I think the hair needs a bit of work though. overall it looks really cool, nice work Dylan
  • Texelion
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    Texelion polycounter lvl 6
    I think that here is the best site if you want to see the armors from L2 :

    http://ivory-tower.de/

    Front, Back, and Side views, I think that almost all armors are here. Check the Fashion section.
  • Notes
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    Notes polycounter lvl 4
    Texelion wrote: »
    I think that here is the best site if you want to see the armors from L2 :

    http://ivory-tower.de/

    Front, Back, and Side views, I think that almost all armors are here. Check the Fashion section.
    niceeee bookmarked
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 6
    Been a while since I updated. Had to wade through the whole retopo/bake process but now Ive got the textures at least at a base level. No spec yet, and I redid the hair. let me know what you guys think!
    lineageIIfemaleWIP10.jpg
    lineageIIfemaleWIP11.jpg
  • duncan
  • Dudestein
    Very cool Dylan. A few crits:

    The topology on her face is a bit too dense, even if you're going for high end specs. Take a look at Nathan Drake's wireframe. The mesh is a bit dense around the mouth and eyes for deformations, but it gets less dense in areas that don't need it - cheeks, forehead, etc. Yours is consistently dense throughout until you get to the neck.

    I'm not a fan of the (for lack of a better description) hair helmet. it doesn't provide a layered look. I suggest taking the time to make proper hair cards for her. If you want to build some of the hair mass into the head model, that's totally legit. Then just layer alpha cards over that.

    You're wasting triangles in most of her clothing and jewelry. Most of that stuff won't effect the silhouette, so it doesn't need to be modeled on the low poly; the normal map will take care of that stuff for you.
  • Saman
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    Saman polycounter lvl 7
    Could you post some screenshots of the zbrush highpoly mesh of the hair please? Make sure you take screens from different sides of the model(front, 3/4, sides etc).

    What I would do would be to first sculpt some rather large streams of hair, make sure these all look good(yours look a bit messy and misshapen at some places). I would then add the extra thin straws of hair in the texture file and use those for the alpha as well. But make sure you get the highpoly right first. :)
  • perna
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    perna sublime tool
    Very cool! I love the emo makeup and hair style (from the front view), although the sculpting there plus what dustinbrown says would benefit from some attention.

    Not much is shown of the lowpoly topology, but that seems like the weakest part. The general geo density, flow, cleanliness of the mesh, loops kind of popping in and out of existence, areas that don't look like they'll deform well, and so on. Consider that the shoulder is very blocky, yet other areas of the model are unnecessarily tesselated. The model is very cool and I think it deserves more lowpoly lurv.
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 6
    Sure thing Saman, thanks for not giving up on me :P
    Hair_femmage.jpg


    My initial read of the reff Its rather messy, with some larger sweeping forms underneath a lot of smaller strands going in all directions. so what your saying sounds great. Id love to hear your thoughts on where I could improve the sculpt I have already, or if I should start over.
    And thanks perna! yeah I;ll make some changes to the topo on the arms
  • afisher
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    afisher polycounter lvl 6
    lookin really good man. I agree with what people have already said about the topology. As for the hair, looking at your ref, I think you need to loosen up those main forms a bit. Have the larger forms just concentrate on setting the overall flow of the hair. Then you can add the smaller strands (the ones that make it appear "messy"), just don't go overboard so that the flow is lost. You could also look at adding some hair planes in there as well to break the silhouette. Hopefully that makes sense, if not feel free to PM or skype me. Lookin forward to seeing ur next update
  • chrisradsby
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    chrisradsby polycounter lvl 7
    I really like the overall design of it, but there is something that is bothering me with the face. Like the mouth might be too pouty, the eyes not "closed enough".

    Personally I hate creating females xD Because they're frickin hard to get right and then again I'm no a character artist :P

    I kinda feel like a proper alpha-card approach would be better for the hair, using 1-3 different strand of hair textures and then just using the UVs and the shape of the geometry to actually make them look like they're flowing from the base of the skull.

    lightning-ffxiii-2.jpg

    http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/maya/lowpolyHair/index5.html

    and this tutorial is still kickass :)
  • Saman
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    Saman polycounter lvl 7
    Hey, I forgot about visiting the thread but I never gave up on you!

    I agree with the points afisher and Christoffer have made. I made a little paintover sketch to illustrate my points further;
    Dylan_PO.jpg

    As you can see I've drawn arrows to point out a few of the misshapen areas of the hair. The strands should be relatively the same size and have very smooth lines. The whole helmet should have a very uniform shape, think of the whole thing as a large upside down flower(mix between a tulip and a rose in this case.. or whatever). Don't bother with strands crossing over these larger strands, only sculpt the larger ones for now. The PO is a bit messy so you don't have to follow it exactly, it's just to get my point across.
    I've also painted over the mouth in front view as well as made the nose less wide.
    Edit: Her collarbone(clavicle) is missing
  • mikezoo
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    mikezoo polycounter lvl 9
    Dylan! Sweet work man!

    Put a light map on her!!! For reals, once you bake out a light map for this girl, everything is going to change. :) Quick 3 point lights w/ a normal mapped Blinn:

    lm.jpg

    I think Saman's hair comment is on point. Get those large aesthetically pleasing shapes down, and the hair will look a lot better. After you nail your base for the hair, I think layering with alpha cards would look super ace.

    The other thing i would mention is to try and capture more sutuble shapes in her face. It seems like your going for a stylized/Final fantasy type face. Right now her face is still reading flat. The lightmpa might aid in this, but I would sculpt some more shapes out. Adding more texture variation will help too.


    final-fantasy-13-gallery-1.jpg
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 6
    Haha just realized its been a fucking month since I updated....

    @ Mike, Thanks so much for the detailed guide, your idea was great! I hope the lightbake has brought out some of the shapes better, if not Ill definitely work on them some more.

    @ Saman, Thanks again buddy, your like my coach on this one I really am super grateful, tell me how you like the hair now! :P

    @ Perna, yeah man I totally see what you mean. I still have to take out some of the tris in the face, but I added a few too the shoulders to compensate. Ill put my wires up for critique as soon as I get a chance to really work that stuff again.

    @Dustin, Same thanks, Ill be keeping yours and Perna's advice in my head when I rework that stuff.

    lineageIIfemaleWIP14.jpg

    lineageIIfemaleWIP15.jpg
  • Hazardous
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    Hazardous polycounter lvl 9
    Man youve improoved a lot - go back a year or so and check out the characters you were making and compare it side by side with this one. You're doing awesome dude :)
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 6
    Whoaa, I love her costume soo much :), especially the chest piece, it's very elegant. I'm only curious as to why she's missing a sock? It's the only element of asymmetry in the piece. On second thought, that knee is really cool though, wouldn't want to cover that up xD ahaha
  • Saman
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    Saman polycounter lvl 7
    Hey, man. It's a nice update but I don't think you're quite there yet with the hair yet. You need to keep it simple for now, smooth it down a bit and try to get the shapes right(Follow my previous PO above and try to divide the slices as big as I've painted them). Try to maintain the same size on each of these slices too, atm some look very flat while others are looking larger(Keep in mind that I'm taking a step back from your current progress because it will make it easier to fix that way).
    It seems like the direction of the hair changes abruptly at some parts which makes it look like she's been using too much hair-gel on some parts while missing others. Hair needs to look voluminous and maintain a consistent shape all over. Her right side from the front view looks too small compared to the other side for example. I've made a little rushed PO here so you can see what I mean better;
    Dylan_PO2.jpg

    But once again, keep it simple for now because you haven't reached the last steps yet. The smaller hair strands can be done once you're done with this step.
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 6
    @Troy, thank you so much, not for the compliment, but for being one of the main factors in my development. If I have improved at all, its %100 thanks to you, Jacque, Saman, and all the heroes on this forum so for that I'm grateful.
    With that, I decided that I was turning into one of those guys who's eternally tweaking one project and I felt like I had learned all I could from this lady so i whipped out a pose and some pedestal geo, and pushed her to my portfolio. Thanks for all the help guys and I'll be sure too keep your advice in the forefront of my mind going forward.
    [ame=" II Female Mage Turntable - YouTube[/ame]

    953_large.jpg
    Full size: http://dylan-brady.com/femalemage/dylanbradyfemalemage1.jpg

    765_large.jpg
    Full size: http://dylan-brady.com/femalemage/dylanbradyfemalemage2.jpg

    dylanbradyfemalemage3.jpg

    609_large.jpg
    Full size: http://dylan-brady.com/femalemage/dylanbradyfemalemage4.jpg
  • Alismuffin
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    Alismuffin polycounter lvl 5
    Wow! This looks amazing man!
  • LRoy
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    LRoy polycounter lvl 6
    those are some sexy shoes haha.

    turn table looks great
  • erroldynamic
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    erroldynamic polycounter lvl 12
    Great job man! She looks awesome!
  • PaulP
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    PaulP polycounter lvl 5
    This turned out great! Nice work :) I like the extras you've put into base & environment, nice touch!
  • ablaine
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    ablaine polygon
    Nice job man! My only crit is with the eyes.. the iris looks a bit small. Well done, though. :)
  • E4sY
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    E4sY polycounter lvl 8
    I really like how your character turned out. The materials in your texture look really nice. Good job!
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 6
    Alismuffin: thanks man!
    LRoy: http://youtu.be/wCF3ywukQYA (thanks for all the help along the way bro!)
    Rion411: Thanks for you crits too man, and appreciate it!
    SCB: thanks, yeah I though the original concept had such amazing background stuff I had to see if I could do it justice.
    ablaine: thank you! true, I had some trouble with the eyes and that might explain it :P
    E4sY: thanks alot broskie.

    PS: gooby pls
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