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RenderHub sells stolen Artwork - Artwork theft through marmoset viewer?

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polycounter lvl 7
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rage288 polycounter lvl 7
It has come to my attention that a renderhub seller was selling the model of a coworker of mine (illegally) and after browsing this sellers content oh and behold there was an asset of mine also. HE STOLE MY FUCKING RIFLE thats posted in artstation and has a marmoset viewer embedded (my cowrokers artwork also had that)
The quick conclusion we arrived is that he somehow ripped the 3d content using some kind of ripper through marmoset viewer and now sells thats stuff in renderhub. This is the sellers product page of my artwork:

https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/m14a1-assault-rifle

and this is my original post in Artstation:

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/5JE0P

Of course Ive already contacted Renderhub and Im waiting for a response.

in case this dudes deletes the product page here are some captures:



Im pissed as fuck. Who knows how many dudes are doing this. I demand a response from marmoset also!!!
This is outrageous. I STRONLGY recommend you guys stop posting artwork with marmoset viewer

Thoughts?


Replies

  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    Renderhub already took the item down upon my request and are investigating this user and he is facing permanent deletion.
    They also used the email reply to shamelessly ask me to sell my stuff on their site. I guess everyone needs to make a buck right? HAHA
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    Apparently they are using something like this to rip the models:

    Mod edit: <link removed>
  • EarthQuake
    I am sorry to hear that this happened. The is unfortunately a problem with all 3D web viewers. We've got a short write up on this topic on our website: https://marmoset.co/support/?page=viewer#security

    The jist of it is, because the content needs to be sent to the user to view, it can't be secured. Even if the content was theoretically secure, someone could reverse engineer the content by offloading it directly from the graphics card. It's very regrettable, but there is nothing we can do to prevent this.
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    Yeah I figured as much.
    Once you are seeing it on your screen its already in your VGA´s ram so it can be ripped by doing a memory dump or some similar shit.
    3d content gets ripped all the time. I certainly did it from time to time in my early days to see how things where done and learn.
    BUT I WOULD HAVE NEVER STOLEN IT to sell it elsewhere. Pieces of S**T!
    I´ll have a look at that link ASAIC.

    Thanks!


  • EarthQuake
    rage288 said:
    Yeah I figured as much.
    Once you are seeing it on your screen its already in your VGA´s ram so it can be ripped by doing a memory dump or some similar shit.
    3d content gets ripped all the time. I certainly did it from time to time in my early days to see how things where done and learn.
    BUT I WOULD HAVE NEVER STOLEN IT to sell it elsewhere. Pieces of S**T!
    I´ll have a look at that link ASAIC.

    Thanks!


    Yeah that's exactly right. It's the same method that people use to rip meshes from games. Once it gets to the GPU there isn't a way to prevent it from being intercepted, and to render it on screen it needs to be sent to the GPU. It's a conundrum. We've done a lot of research trying to find a way to prevent this but the GPU/VRAM part of it is the real killer.

    Also yeah, It's a shame that people do this. I mean I can understand ripping a model as a study tool, but to throw it on an asset store? This is just some shameful, mean stuff.
  • norbyscook
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    norbyscook polycounter lvl 4
    I see that it is Copyright NGD Studios -?
    tell the studio, if studio cares, the studio will sue those thieves.
  • norbyscook
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    norbyscook polycounter lvl 4
    post is gone lol , guess it died lol 
  • Violet
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    Violet polycounter lvl 9
    Didn't know this - no fault of anyone but the stealing scumbags, but quite concerning
  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    2 of my models were also stolen from this bast***rd. Thanks to Leonid, who informed me about it over Artstation!
    https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/woman-robot-character
    https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/sci-fi-soldier 
  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    I will inform Turbosquid where i sell this models exclusively. And i will inform Renderhub,  the should finaly do something agains this pirate and ban him.
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    He is still around in renderhub? Son of a &%%&$&%&!

  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg ngon master
    Um? Seems he's been doing this for a while... @EarthQuake pretty sure this is yours



  • EarthQuake
    zachagreg said:
    Um? Seems he's been doing this for a while... @EarthQuake pretty sure this is yours



    Can you PM a link to this so I can report it? Thanks for the heads up.
  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg ngon master
    I would highly suggest anyone seeing this thread to go through this guys stuff and see if he has stolen from you as well. 

    The assortment of models is eclectic to say the least.
  • EarthQuake
    zachagreg said:
    I would highly suggest anyone seeing this thread to go through this guys stuff and see if he has stolen from you as well. 

    The assortment of models is eclectic to say the least.
    Yes it is very likely that this guy has stolen work from other artists. I have emailed and asked them to ban the user.
  • Nocstrig
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    Nocstrig polycounter lvl 4
    In addition to the works of woolfy13, i found another model from Artstation (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/yZzz9) that was stolen (https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/robotic-arm). I have already wrote a message to the author of the model, but she has not answered me yet.
  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    I think the best way is just to tell to everybody in every form that Renderhub keep pirates and just remove reported models, but not the pirates itself . So a lot people know, also the clients, if they purchase models on this Renderhub, they purchase potentially stolen content.

    rage288 : I would also recommend to rename this thread in " Renderhub - pirate site" or something, so more Artists know about this "great place".
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    Son of a &%%$&%$!!! they should ban the mofo! Renderhub should take action!
  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    Ah yes cool thanks! One info from me: I don't know, how he got my models, because for this models i didn't published a marmoset preview. But is think its from case to case different. 
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    woolfy13 said:
    I think the best way is just to tell to everybody in every form that Renderhub keep pirates and just remove reported models, but not the pirates itself . So a lot people know, also the clients, if they purchase models on this Renderhub, they purchase potentially stolen content.

    rage288 : I would also recommend to rename this thread in " Renderhub - pirate site" or something, so more Artists know about this "great place"
    Done :)
  • Michalo
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    Michalo polycounter lvl 2
    That is really wrong :/
    Maybe Marmoset should suspend the Viewer itself, if it causes so many issues?
    Or, maybe it's possible to write 3d file format native only for viewer?

    Or maybe option in viewer, to make 360 spins to the renderer model (so only images are show) would be nice option for some?

    Just some thoughts.
  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    They, removed my models from Renderhub now (like with Artist rage288  case) but not the ardara pirate, he will stay selling another stollen content. Now we know, thats dirty strategy of this Marketplace.
    https://www.renderhub.com/ardara is a Pirate, and www.renderhub.com supports this, by keeping him online.

  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    He already has been reported at least by 5 people, and as @zachagreg said, his products on the store seem eclectic to say the least, probably nothing there is his to sell. @EarthQuake any news for you?
  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg ngon master
    Michalo the responsibility isn't on Marmoset though it doesn't matter the format of the model or how it is stored. As soon as it is on my GPU I can do a data dump and rip the model out. The glory of the viewer is that it is amazing for showing off all aspects of a model. Especially so in the case of employers or recruiters viewing the model from multiple angles to show that nothing was hidden behind still shots.

    This is purely a problem with people being assholes and Renderhub supporting the behavior.
  • Michalo
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    Michalo polycounter lvl 2
    I don't blame Marmoset. It's shame there are no tools to fight with pirates. Even if renderhub would act right and ban this guy, starting new account isn't big deal comparing to the $$$ he can get from staling.

  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg ngon master
    Michalo said:
    I don't blame Marmoset. It's shame there are no tools to fight with pirates. Even if renderhub would act right and ban this guy, starting new account isn't big deal comparing to the $$$ he can get from staling.

    I very much agree with this. It is a damn shame that this happens and this is a constant issue many companies face in the current digital age. Piracy and theft are real problems that cybersecurity people are in a constant battle with. For now we just have to do our part in not being a part of such a community that allows these people to profit from it.
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    I dont care man, Renderhub should ban this burglar of 3d models! He has at least 6 or 7 strikes since october, if Im RenderHub and mi interest is to keep a respectable business I should have banned him since strike 2. He even stealed a pice thats well known for any marmoset users ( @EarthQuake ´s Helmet) HE has no shame at all! Thats like selling the Utah Teapot

  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    In theory companies like Turbosquid can take action and for example sue this company , because they also take damage from such dirty strategies in long term.
    But i agree with zachagreg, as Artist just avoid this Renderhub, because they see Artists as sh...t..
  • EarthQuake
    I contacted Renderhub and they took down my asset immediately. They've been very responsive in email support, so if you there is an asset you know is stolen by all means content them at: support@renderhub.com

    They mentioned that they are reviewing the user's account and considering banning him, but as of yet have not taken any action there. I am not sure what their general process is. Hopefully something will happen there soon. This is the account in question: https://www.renderhub.com/ardara - with such a wide variety I expect that most of this is stolen, but have no proof, so if you guys recognize it we can find the original authors and get them to report it too, which will increase the likelihood that they ban the account outright.

    In general I'm not really upset with Renderhub. It is very difficult for them (or any site like this) to proactively police this sort of thing, there is no easy way cross reference artwork when it is uploaded, so they rely on artists like us to report it when we see it. 


  • Nocstrig
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    Nocstrig polycounter lvl 4
    I found 4 more artists from whom Ardara stole models. Two of them have already answered me back and may have contacted RenderHub's support. Think that profile block is now a matter of time.
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    Good news @Nocstrig, hopefully you are right

  • EarthQuake
    Michalo said:
    That is really wrong :/
    Maybe Marmoset should suspend the Viewer itself, if it causes so many issues?
    Or, maybe it's possible to write 3d file format native only for viewer?

    Or maybe option in viewer, to make 360 spins to the renderer model (so only images are show) would be nice option for some?

    Just some thoughts.
    Unfortunately it's not possible to secure 3D data over the web. The fundamental problem is that for the end user to view the content, they need to have the content sent to their video card. Once it's on the video card, it can be ripped from memory. We've discussed this at length but there is nothing we (or any 3D web based Viewer software) can do about it.

    Now, of course you can render turntables from Toolbag and make a GIF or video and post that instead. That's possible and pretty easy to do in Toolbag today. Just add a turntable object to your scene and render a sequence.
  • Ssjtroll
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    Ssjtroll polycounter lvl 8
    Nocstrig said:
    In addition to the works of woolfy13, i found another model from Artstation (https://www.artstation.com/artwork/yZzz9) that was stolen (https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/robotic-arm). I have already wrote a message to the author of the model, but she has not answered me yet.
    Thanks for the heads up email. I contacted renderhub, hopefully they take that down soon. This dude is a jerk for stealing I would assume most of this stuff he has posted. 
  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    Hi, 2 of my models were also stolen from this bast**rd.
    <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/sci-fi-soldier" title="Link: https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/sci-fi-soldier">https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/sci-fi-soldier</a>
    https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/woman-robot-character
     I will write to the Turbosquid because is sell this chars exclusively there. And i will inform Renderhub. They should do something against this pirates. They should ban him from the Renderhub.
  • Michalo
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    Michalo polycounter lvl 2
    Now, of course you can render turntables from Toolbag and make a GIF or video and post that instead. That's possible and pretty easy to do in Toolbag today. Just add a turntable object to your scene and render a sequence.
    I ment something you could control inside of viewer like, spining with mouse, changing views etc. Not as with gif, where you cant control playback.

    Sorry for making off topic, didn't mean it in a first place.
  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    Sorry, i dont know why i have so many posts now. I was just editing the old one , but for some reasong that are multiple copys now. Sorry for that...
  • Eric Chadwick
    woolfy13 said:
    Sorry, i dont know why i have so many posts now. I was just editing the old one , but for some reasong that are multiple copys now. Sorry for that...
    Your account got flagged by our spam filter, then once we verified your account, the plugin created the duplicates. Sorry about that, it's a forum software bug the makers don't want to fix. Anyhow, now that you've been verified, it won't happen again. Carry on...
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    As of now the seller has its storefront on RenderHub still up and running. Are these people fucking around?
  • cryptex97
    My Scar 17s model which i posted with a marmoset viewer about 2 years ago got stolen too :(
    Thanks to Leonid who notified me about this on Artstation https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/fn-scar-17s
    That's why i don't post my stuff with marmoset viewers anymore, it can be ripped very easily....
  • wyrine
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    wyrine polycounter lvl 5
    Hi everyone,
    I have been informed by two different people (big thanks to them!) that my model have been stolen by the same member on RenderHub (this one: https://www.renderhub.com/ardara/western-saddle). First of all, thank you all for the awesome support, it's really nice to see artists helping each other out on that matter!

    I contacted RenderHub, putting an emphasis on the fact that other artists have already made a complain about the same matter and that no further action had been taken since then. I hope it will help. If I get an answer, I'll tell you.

    Anyway, thanks again to the community :)



  • Ronja_Jansen
    Hello everyone,

    I also had this user sell my model on his account. I had a Marmoset Viewer in my Artstation post. 

    Someone on Artstation informed me about his post, which is really awesome :)

    I sent a message to Renderhub and linked to this forum as well. I received two replies within one minute, both saying the account should be down by the end of the day: 



    Let's hope it actually happens! :)
  • ihatzi
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    ihatzi triangle
    Hey everyone.

    My name is Ion and I am the owner over at RenderHub

    So, first let me start bay apologizing to anyone who ended up having their work stolen by this scammer. It can be difficult for us to proactively identify these offenses, so we really appreciate it when the reports come in.

    I know this probably could have happened sooner, but Ardara is permanently band from the site!

    We love our community of artists, and there certainly is no room for these scammers on our site.

    Ion
  • Ronja_Jansen
    ihatzi said:
    Hey everyone.

    My name is Ion and I am the owner over at RenderHub

    So, first let me start bay apologizing to anyone who ended up having their work stolen by this scammer. It can be difficult for us to proactively identify these offenses, so we really appreciate it when the reports come in.

    I know this probably could have happened sooner, but Ardara is permanently band from the site!

    We love our community of artists, and there certainly is no room for these scammers on our site.

    Ion
    Hi Ion,

    Thank you very much for blocking the user! I understand that situations like this one are difficult to manage and I'm just glad you blocked him in the end. 

    It's because of this awesome community of artists that so many people were aware that their models were being stolen and sold, it's really nice to see people being so helpful to each other. 
  • woolfy13
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    woolfy13 node
    Thanks for a ban for this user Ion! I think, if everybody will take care about it and inform other artist there will be less scammers. I have seen a model on cgtrader from another artist( not my model) then i wrote a message to the original artist ( he was on the the same cgtrader marketplace! ), he wrote to cgtrader. They band this user very fast 1-2 days. I hope it will also happens sooner on Renderhub next time.
    And also a big Thanks to Leonid on artstation https://www.artstation.com/nocstrig who informed me about this scammer.
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    That's good news folks! :smiley:
    Lets open a blond one and celebrate!

    Glad to have exposed this crook
  • Ianovski
    I am afraid that he was not the only one doing this. Someone pointed me to the following website: https://www.desirefx.me/christopher-pocket-watch-3d-model/

    Here you can obviously see that they're trying to sell my model:
    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/mq3ZXv

    The user "admin" didn't even try to hide it. Unfortunately I can't find a way to report the user or even contact the people behind the website. All items are sold via https://www.syncs.online but I can't report my problem with them because I don't have the "correct link" when I link them to the DesireFX website. 

    Maybe there is something we can do as a community, or maybe it's time for Marmoset to step in because I'm taking my viewers offline.

    Btw, I believe "admin" is not the only one selling stolen stuff on that website so check it out.
  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg ngon master
    I recognize quite a few of those props from some people I know through an online community im apart of. Which is shitty because theyre mostly students and people trying to break into the industry. My recommendation is contact the relevant artists like I'm going to do and in the mean time try to find a way to report the user of some sort.

    The bad part though is that that site looks like it's owned by the scammer as clicking any link immediately tries to sell me an iPhone. My thought is the entire site is a scam. Filled with these things for people to click on several aggressive ads for popups and spamware.
  • oraeles77
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    oraeles77 polycounter lvl 4
    anyone who uses a 3d viewer to show off their artwork is literally giving their meshes and textures away for free. this is why I'd never use any 3d viewer to show off my work.

    there was that render of a female comic book character on here a few months ago, really amazing stuff, and then I read someone had stolen it via a 3d viewer.

    on artstation I've noticed lots of odd profiles which either have an odd range of portfolio work (mixed ability stuff) on display, or sometimes they have really similar items in each profile (I noticed a load of American stlye ambulances over the last few weeks) and they seem to spam up artstation writing 'nice, generic' comments, on as many profiles as possible, 'WOW, GREAT! YOU WILL HAVE A GREAT CAREER SOON!' is something you may notice, and if you were to google search it, they have used that same comment copy pasted for 6 months! I can only assume they rip models or copy other people's renders, then create a fake profile, try to attract lots of followers then they sell the account to anyone who wants it? I dunno.
  • final_fight
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    final_fight polycounter lvl 9
    You could add something like word "sample" to Normal Map texture used in 3d viewer model, it wont spoil the whole model. Of course, depending on model, it's possible to remove from Normal Map, but it will take some time and effort for thieves...
  • Randy2575
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    Randy2575 polycounter lvl 4
    I did a search on Renderhub and piracy to come here.  Was thinking of buying a model from RH when I noticed some unusual models there.  After doing a little digging, I found that there was a seller there that posted other peoples work as his own to sell.  Verifying this, I contacted RH and told them about the offender.  They checked and also verified this, saying the seller will be blocked form the site and pending proceeds of his sales will be redistributed to the various artists he was ripping off.  Once they told me he was blocked, I did  a search for his name and found no hits.  The thief goes by Precogplasma btw.  Being the suspicious type, I did another search today and found that his store is up and running again under the same name Precogplasma, as if nothing had happened.  To make a long story short, RenderHub lied about blocking him and they know he ripps off people's work to sell as his own there.  Renderhub is the problem, they condone fraud and fraudulent activity.  Precogplasma sells a lot of models, so he makes a lot of money for RH.  Instead of doing the right thing and banning him for life, Renderhub instead wants to keep the revenue stream going even if it means condoning and encouraging fraud. 

    Everyone should avoid and boycott Renderhub.
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