How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • rage288
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    rage288 triangle
    Not a Max user. But I was wondering what is that tool called?

    Quadchamfer :)
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    Justo said:
    @perna
    Maybe I'm forgetting something obvious, but how do you deal with small areas where control loops may pinch or go crazy? I've seen you use a vertex weld mod on top which sometimes does the job, but other times that won't do it; or perhaps it'll start welding unwanted stuff.
    Well, let's break it down. Pinch or go crazy - that's just one problem I believe? Namely that there's not enough space for the chamfer. The general rule would be to leave enough room.

    That's likely not too helpful, but to go beyond that I'd need practical examples. I don't believe I can see the cage mesh in those screenshots or highlighting of problem areas so it's hard to comment.

    @cromadbomber it's the standard chamfer modifier. It outputs a normal subd cage which will work perfectly in any other 3d software, and it bases the chamfers on smoothing groups, which also survive moving between apps. So it's fully backwards-compatible, fully automatic, works with existing tool chains, and last but not least produces a much better-looking result than standard cage control loops. It looks machined and tight like CAD software output, rather than melted and awful like the old way.

    Standard control loops on the left, Max automatic processing on the right:


  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    Another example; Cage, manual control loops, automatic non-destructive chamfers.

    Here with rounder corners. The control loops version doesn't just give rounder corners, it MELTS and looks terrible. Also to get a mesh which resembles the softness of the automatic version, control loops need to be moved so far apart that they start intersecting and creating an absolute mess.


  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 4
    @perna That looks cool. Thank you for the reply. Lately I have been using Maya's creases + GoZ to import stuff into Zbrush. Using this method you can have really clean geo on the base mesh aswel and later on you can use that same mesh as the lowpoly so there is no much retopo involved.



  • Revel
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    Revel polycounter lvl 8
    @perna - I'm wondering how did you tackle a mesh with varying detail size, for example a rifling on a barrel of a gun, it needs a tiny bit of chamfer amount otherwise it'll overlap eachother, but on the other hand, you need a larger chamfer width on different area of that barrel, on the same mesh, with a bigger detail, smoother transition?

    What I did normally was just cut in support loop to the smaller detail area and put all of them into one smoothing group so it won't affected by the chamfer mod, but it required me to cut in the support loop like an era before quadchamfer came in.. :\
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 4
    @Revel I was wondering same exact thing.
  • Justo
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    Justo polycounter lvl 4
    Exactly, this is the kind of problem I was trying, and maybe failed, to illustrate in my previous image. The auto chamfer way works great for general, big shapes; but most of the times smaller details won't smooth correctly. For instance, if you compare the left and right shapes, AFAIK you won't be able to get 1 and 2, simultaneosly, to look like its left counterpart by only applying the automatic chamfer. You say "you have to leave enough room", and I'd be interested in hearing your workarounds, or general no-nos from you on which type of areas give you, personally, trouble when using this method.



     I mean, sometimes just making the model differently is not a solution: the client wants it exactly like that. And what I end up doing is what Revel said: just DIY and apply one SG to that area so that the chamfer stays the f out from that.
  • rage288
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    rage288 triangle
    Revel said:
    @perna - I'm wondering how did you tackle a mesh with varying detail size, for example a rifling on a barrel of a gun, it needs a tiny bit of chamfer amount otherwise it'll overlap eachother, but on the other hand, you need a larger chamfer width on different area of that barrel, on the same mesh, with a bigger detail, smoother transition?

    What I did normally was just cut in support loop to the smaller detail area and put all of them into one smoothing group so it won't affected by the chamfer mod, but it required me to cut in the support loop like an era before quadchamfer came in.. :\

     I do the exact same thing, when quadchamfer shows limitations I use traditional tools all in one SG
  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    Hey there!
    Quick question.

    1How do you make such details(high poly)
    Using turbosmooth.
    I only know one way
    (hard edge)
    2Did I do it right or not?
    3Do you use this method or not?
    4How to do it differently?
    Thank you very much in advance!
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 4
    @Markmars That pretty much looks spot on. There is no right or wrong way. The only thing which matters is the end result.
  • Bumblebee
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    Bumblebee polycounter lvl 2
    what you guys should always do is maybe try blocking the shape out with simple geo, and when you have the shapes, just use smooth by smoothing groups to get extra polygons for extra detail.
  • technicienludo
    Hello, I'm trying to mesh, and I'm sure it's not good. can you tell me if the mesh is correct. If it is not the case, would have a possibility to show me by image. thank you.

  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @technicienludo

    1 - Cage model
    2 - Traditional edge control loops. Done here automatically, can be cleaner if done manually
    3 - Sub-divided
    4 - Better chamfer settings but no longer traditional control loops.


  • Pedro Amorim
    win
  • technicienludo
    thank you. I did not think about this mesh there
  • Justo
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    Justo polycounter lvl 4
    Thanks for that list per, that's good.

    Also, it's always fun to see the latest UI changes you've made to your app, there are not enough fab max users like you here. You're now going for some red and blue huh. It does intrigue me why people decide to remove the three color-code from gizmos AND hide the on-screen WS gizmo at the bottom corner. Guess I'm not that macho yet.  
  • ajr2764
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    ajr2764 polycounter lvl 8
    Hey guys,

    Looking for a little guidance, I solved some other topo issues and have some quick paint overs I did of solution(No tablet agh). Which one of these paint overs would be the better solution. 

    A - I had this originally and noticed it was giving deformation issue with shading. Likely due to spacing of edges, not sure if the pole is causing it (Have'nt tried yet) Seems like weird topo though
    B - Seems ideal but I'd have to slice in two more loops straight up which I did on another area of the mesh. Maybe this would work here also if I space edges apart again. I doubt the roundness of the hole would be effected due to the # of sides
    C - Deal with Ngon or slice edge from poles straight up


    A

    B

    C

  • kadeschui
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    kadeschui polycounter lvl 8
    Obviously you'll want to clean this up but it gets the idea across. pardon my MS Paint skillz XD



    Edit: this is LP - for a subdivide for a bake your option B should be fine.
  • ajr2764
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    ajr2764 polycounter lvl 8
    Thanks Kadeschui. I was like oh noo tri's:)  and I saw thats intended topo for LP version. So I'll try B and check again the results. 
  • Justo
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    Justo polycounter lvl 4

    one day i may try orange 
    It's not as hardcore as some others', but I actually do try to go for an orange look in Max as much as I'm comfortable with. Also 2018 is weird and some colors behave differently than in other versions, like Geometry>Subselection. 



  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    Justo
    I do not understand .
    what are you trying to do?
    do you have a reference?
    Everything is working.
    (just use more geometry)

  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    cromadbomber
    Thank you!
  • tanphong91
    Hi. I am new to 3d modeling and I have an assignment to model an ALY71836 Acura RDX Rim. The shape is really complicated and I don't even know where to start. Any help or suggestions would be helpful. I use 3Ds Max. The model needs to be a game spec model that is clean and holds shape when subdivided. Thank you for your time.
  • bitinn
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    bitinn triangle
    Hi,

    I am wondering the best way to extrude this pipe turn's ring along the pipe without creating hidden poly inside the ring. This is a single piece of mesh.

    I can think of a few ways to do this but none of them seem elegant: either I will have to delete some pipe polys and bridge again, or I have to move edge or add edge loop in a way that at least slightly affect the pipe turn's shape.


  • Vent
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    Vent polycounter lvl 6
    This is probably a bit of a silly question, but as someone who is still quite a novice when it comes to high poly modeling, how would I add an edgeloop (green) to support the edge (blue) without adding an unwanted crease along the whole cylindrical shape. I feel like I'm doing something wrong, I just, I don't really know what. Working with subdivided surface is something pretty unfamiliar to me. Thanks for any help!
  • EarthQuake
    Vent said:
    This is probably a bit of a silly question, but as someone who is still quite a novice when it comes to high poly modeling, how would I add an edgeloop (green) to support the edge (blue) without adding an unwanted crease along the whole cylindrical shape. I feel like I'm doing something wrong, I just, I don't really know what. Working with subdivided surface is something pretty unfamiliar to me. Thanks for any help!
    80% of this thread covers how to do this. Read back until you see a similar question.
  • darkminaz
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    darkminaz vertex
    bitinn said:
    Hi,

    I am wondering the best way to extrude this pipe turn's ring along the pipe without creating hidden poly inside the ring. This is a single piece of mesh.

    I can think of a few ways to do this but none of them seem elegant: either I will have to delete some pipe polys and bridge again, or I have to move edge or add edge loop in a way that at least slightly affect the pipe turn's shape.




    add an edgeloop right on the corner, and simply move the rest along, probably the simplest way :)

  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
    Vent said:

    use more sides in the cylinder in the first place so you don't need to add the green edge. 
  • bitinn
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    bitinn triangle
    darkminaz said:
    bitinn said:
    Hi,

    I am wondering the best way to extrude this pipe turn's ring along the pipe without creating hidden poly inside the ring. This is a single piece of mesh.

    I can think of a few ways to do this but none of them seem elegant: either I will have to delete some pipe polys and bridge again, or I have to move edge or add edge loop in a way that at least slightly affect the pipe turn's shape.




    add an edgeloop right on the corner, and simply move the rest along, probably the simplest way :)

    Thx, that was what I tried, but it requires me to straighten the edge loop afterwards. And of course I have to do it one by one and eyeball it.

    I eventually went with a bevel but with chamfer mode "off" and force parallel "on", it will create something similar but with adjustable parameters as well as can be done in 1 go.




  • DeathstrokeFTW
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    DeathstrokeFTW polycounter lvl 2
    I am trying to make this for a low poly tree but I dont know how to pull it off. I have tried several attempts but nothing works.

  • Eric Chadwick
    I am trying to make this for a low poly tree but I dont know how to pull it off. I have tried several attempts but nothing works.


    Post attempt before asking pls. Difficult to critique without seeing what you've tried so far.

    The stalks for these leaves are coming out from the trunk in an overlapping manner, each one behind the next, so just extrude them the same way.

    Think about how you would model a rose, for example.
  • DeathstrokeFTW
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    DeathstrokeFTW polycounter lvl 2
    I am trying to make this for a low poly tree but I dont know how to pull it off. I have tried several attempts but nothing works.


    Post attempt before asking pls. Difficult to critique without seeing what you've tried so far.

    The stalks for these leaves are coming out from the trunk in an overlapping manner, each one behind the next, so just extrude them the same way.

    Think about how you would model a rose, for example.


    I was currently doing this, I dont have my old attempts.
  • perna
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    perna ngon master
    @DeathstrokeFTW
    It's difficult to help you unless you tell us what the problem is. "Nothing works" is too vague.
  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 3
    @DeathstrokeFTW
    This is a circular pattern, so decide an amount of segments you want on branches and base that will match up nicely.
    I started with 8sided base cuz I want 4 branches.
    4 branches with 4 sides each will match up nicely with 8sided base. One (red) of them unique, the rest instances.
    4 new branches with 4 sides rotated upward slightly will match up nicely with first 4 branches, One (green) of them unique, the rest instances.
    4 new branches with 4 sides will match up nicely with second 4 branches, rotated 45 degrees around tree, some degrees upward. One of (blue) them unique, the rest instances.
    Edit poly modifier on the green branch, move the bottom left and right verts to make edges line up nicely. Add edgeloop where the branches and base intersect to all 3 unique branches...
    Edit poly modifier on unique branches, select bottom face, grow selection, delete. 
    Edit poly modifier on tree base, select top face, grow selection, delete.
    Now it's all lined up for you to merge the meshes and weld the verts by proximity.

    Max file: http://skins.thanez.net/help/deathstroke.max
    Keep it simple, keep it clean.
  • DeathstrokeFTW
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    DeathstrokeFTW polycounter lvl 2
    Thanez said:
    @DeathstrokeFTW
    This is a circular pattern, so decide an amount of segments you want on branches and base that will match up nicely.
    I started with 8sided base cuz I want 4 branches.
    4 branches with 4 sides each will match up nicely with 8sided base. One (red) of them unique, the rest instances.
    4 new branches with 4 sides rotated upward slightly will match up nicely with first 4 branches, One (green) of them unique, the rest instances.
    4 new branches with 4 sides will match up nicely with second 4 branches, rotated 45 degrees around tree, some degrees upward. One of (blue) them unique, the rest instances.
    Edit poly modifier on the green branch, move the bottom left and right verts to make edges line up nicely. Add edgeloop where the branches and base intersect to all 3 unique branches...
    Edit poly modifier on unique branches, select bottom face, grow selection, delete. 
    Edit poly modifier on tree base, select top face, grow selection, delete.
    Now it's all lined up for you to merge the meshes and weld the verts by proximity.

    *snip*
    I literally did that earlier but gave up because it wasnt looking nice with the leaves I had to attach to. Guess Ill just do that. I also have to keep this low poly. Thanks!

    perna said:
    @DeathstrokeFTW
    It's difficult to help you unless you tell us what the problem is. "Nothing works" is too vague.
    Yes sorry about that I cant really explain my problem xD I was trying to pull off the image I linked but I was running into problems when I tried to look at it from far away. Plus keeping that low-poly actually made it hard to maintain the clean look.
  • iacdxb
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    iacdxb vertex
    Hi, anyone can help me how can I fix this round to hard edges....? Thanks.





    Thanks.
  • perna
  • Thanez
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    Thanez polycounter lvl 3
    I literally did that earlier but gave up because it wasnt looking nice with the leaves I had to attach to. Guess Ill just do that. I also have to keep this low poly. 
    Lowpoly isn't an issue. You can add detail and do whatever you want as long as you work with the surrounding geometry instead of against it.

    Oh no, an Ngons. What to doooo

    Oh
  • lenin.arya
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    lenin.arya polycounter lvl 3
    Hi guys,

    Please recommend a fast way to model these.  On a medium- res mesh. Maya.

    Current workflow = Place a cylinder at each point on the Fender > Boolean > Cleanup the result.  This becomes very time consuming.

    Please recommend a faster method for this.





    Mesh



  • Eric Chadwick
    I'd suggest just making one of these, then duplicating it around and rotating/scaling into rough position, then snapping the edges into place.


  • lenin.arya
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    lenin.arya polycounter lvl 3
    Thanks Eric :).  That's very logical.  

    Makes me wonder where did my common sense go :D.
  • franman
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    franman polycounter lvl 9
    I'm a 3Ds max user.

    I got myself in a situation where I merge different meshes to one mesh so I can UV map them.  After flattening, relaxing and packing the clusters into the 0,1 boundary, I then detach parts of the geometry from that one mesh.

    However, along the way I realize that I need to fix some of the polygons on certain meshes; this usually involves fixing vertex positions; sometimes deleting and creating polygons.

    So that means I have to fix those clusters in UV space to scale and match proportionally; not only that, I find that I have to reattach those meshes with other meshes so I can pack those clusters again.

    Hopefully you can see where I'm getting at, is there a better way of dealing with this tedious process? (that is avoid repetitive reattachment of those meshes and packing clusters).
  • Axi5
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    Axi5 greentooth
    franman said:
    I'm a 3Ds max user.

    I got myself in a situation where I merge different meshes to one mesh so I can UV map them.  After flattening, relaxing and packing the clusters into the 0,1 boundary, I then detach parts of the geometry from that one mesh.

    However, along the way I realize that I need to fix some of the polygons on certain meshes; this usually involves fixing vertex positions; sometimes deleting and creating polygons.

    So that means I have to fix those clusters in UV space to scale and match proportionally; not only that, I find that I have to reattach those meshes with other meshes so I can pack those clusters again.

    Hopefully you can see where I'm getting at, is there a better way of dealing with this tedious process? (that is avoid repetitive reattachment of those meshes and packing clusters).
    You don't have to merge meshes to edit their UVs together.

    Select all components and add a UV Unwrap modifier and you'll see it in the stack with italics, this signifies it's an instanced modifier i.e. it's used in more than one location.

    This will allow you to edit UVs on multiple meshes without merging them
  • GrizPark
    Hi all,

    Apologies if this sort of shape has been covered before. I've checked through the first 15-20 pages and couldn't find anything in relation and google searches always bring up the wrong criteria.

    My problem is with the "creased" lines that seem to come from the outer corners of the protruding shape. I've spent several hours trying to work it out myself but figured I'd stop being so silly and just ask for help.
     
    Any help and/or advice appreciated.


    Best,

    Griz
  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    Use more geometry.
  • wirrexx
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    wirrexx polycounter lvl 7
    GrizPark said:
    Hi all,

    Apologies if this sort of shape has been covered before. I've checked through the first 15-20 pages and couldn't find anything in relation and google searches always bring up the wrong criteria.

    My problem is with the "creased" lines that seem to come from the outer corners of the protruding shape. I've spent several hours trying to work it out myself but figured I'd stop being so silly and just ask for help.
     
    Any help and/or advice appreciated.


    Best,

    Griz
    1.
    Build the primary shape  firstly. Have as little control points as possible (i probably could do it with less geo, but heeeey.. im not perna)
    2. add a symmatry, work with the entire shape (cause it's symmetrical untill that small part)
    3. using the double smooth method (keeping smoothing groups). I got my main shape done. Now it's all about having Equa-distance so your extrude does not get artifacts. 
    4. I made sure that i had enough geo to extrude that part, to be honest. One can do this with a lot less geo and a small amount of manual tweaking. But if it's a personal piece  and nobody else is going to work with it. have fun. 




  • GrizPark
    wirrexx said:
    1.
    Build the primary shape  firstly. Have as little control points as possible (i probably could do it with less geo, but heeeey.. im not perna)
    2. add a symmatry, work with the entire shape (cause it's symmetrical untill that small part)
    3. using the double smooth method (keeping smoothing groups). I got my main shape done. Now it's all about having Equa-distance so your extrude does not get artifacts. 
    4. I made sure that i had enough geo to extrude that part, to be honest. One can do this with a lot less geo and a small amount of manual tweaking. But if it's a personal piece  and nobody else is going to work with it. have fun. 




    wirrexx, Thanks so much for the assist.

    I'm a Maya user so I've had to translate that to Maya talk, using the Catmull-Clark SubDiv option instead of OpenSubDiv I can preserve edge hardness, then OpenSubDiv smooth over the top of the Cat/Clark, Working nicely. could I pinch a look at the geo' you came up with in the final picture?

    Best,

    Griz
  • Eric Chadwick
    Ewww, that modifier stack makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

    Cheers though for lending a hand.
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