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LOWPOLY (or: the optimisation appreciation organisation)

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  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    Rapante your biker chick is awesome, I love the body suit :D And Delko your mustang is hot. I really like the texture on the hills too. I wouldn't have thought that such large pixels would look nice, but they fit perfectly.

    But I'm sorry for my repeated derailings of the thread. PolyHertz The viewport texture filtering was something I was looking for, so thank you very much for that!
    Zoid, I'm afraid it didn't work. I DID have Wrap U and V selected, but unselecting them and taking another render had no effect. (I also reloaded the texture, restarted Maya, and clicked on and off all the options I could.)

    Here's another screenshot, this time with my UVs lined up 'properly' in the UV window and in the viewport. But in the render it doesn't look like I lined things up at all.
    UVIssues.jpg
    I'm thinking, if you don't have an insight I might just translate the frame enough that the weird offset issues aren't happening anymore.

    Also 9skulls, thanks for the tip on the treads. I wasn't sure about coming up off full black that I'd be able to have enough contrast, but I quite like how it's turning out.
  • [SF]Three9
    Tigerfeet, I know exactly why this is happening to you. Your UV's are laid out as a perfect square, so when you textured it, it looks just fine. However, the actual mesh is not a perfect square....since the tire is a circle,e faces actually get smaller as it gets closer to the center (or in your case inner edge) of the circle.Your UV's either need to be shaped as a trapezoid, with the left 2 edges being the same height, as tappering in height down as it gets closer to the white, or your texture needs to be painted to adjust for the stretching

    here's a paintover
    po.jpg
    Also, that circled turquoise area is happening becuase you painted RIGHT at the UV edge. When the texture gets resized or is just rendered on the mesh, sometimes the edges bleed over. Since your background is a neutral grey, that's what's picked up at the seam of your tire. Painting like 3-5 pixels outside the UV seam is called a bleed area to keep this from happening. Hope this helps dude
  • felipefrango
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    felipefrango polycounter lvl 9
    Rapante, that is bitchin'. It's a shame I don't have access to Dropbox at work so I can never see your stuff until I get home, but it's always worth the wait.
  • mdinizzz
    Hello, I finally went back and finished my first character low res. "Goblin Magic", I accept suggestions for improving performance ever, thank you red fox helped me a lot and criticisms are always welcome, then I'll do some animation cycles, "he casting fireball" lol thanks all

    fotopolycountgoblin.png

    [ame="
  • PatrickL
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    PatrickL polycounter lvl 9
    So much style it hurts, Delko.
  • Zoid
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    Zoid polycounter lvl 10
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    Zoid, I'm afraid it didn't work.

    [ame=" U & V wrap - YouTube[/ame]
    <shrug> it works for me for some reason. you can see how the cap on the bottom even goes gray as its UV are out of the 0-1 range

    the only other option I can think of is to remind you to use x² textures as maya seems to filter them (badly) automatically if it is not.
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    Well thank you very much for trying Zoid :) I'm sure I'll be able to work around it.
  • VPrime
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    VPrime polycounter lvl 9
    Currently working on changing up some of the graphics on our chirtmas game.. Want to go for a cartoony look.. But can't decide which one is right/better?
    I like the second one with the thinner lines on the roof and with the line going down the middle of the roof. My partner likes the first one.

    orthis.png
    updatedGraphics.png
  • Zoid
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    Zoid polycounter lvl 10
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    Well thank you very much for trying Zoid :) I'm sure I'll be able to work around it.

    woah no wait, check this out

    2011-10-26_2021.png
    wow, never seen that happen actually. I'm going to investigate
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    Oooooh yes Zoid, looks like the same thing! Cutting the pixel in half. I'm in Maya 2011 if that helps you at all. If you want any info on settings too just let me know.

    VPrime, if you want a cartoony look you can do it with either of those lining schemes. What I'd do is I'd mess with the models and make sure the walls are neither plum nor true. Selecting the verticies on the base and scaling them in a bit would add a lot of character to what is now pretty much just a box with a triangle on top. A cartoony style usually has brighter colors too. The texturing on them feels a little drab and maybe too realistic if cartoony is what you're shooting for.
  • Delko
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    Delko polycounter lvl 12
    This is obviously a case of Autodesk building intentional flaws into Maya so people switch over to 3DS.


    Or its not.
  • Zoid
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    Zoid polycounter lvl 10
    I see the issue, pretty sure it is the size of the texture.

    1) maya doesn't seem to "pixel"render textures that are really small (< 16 pixel) too perfectly for low poly looks
    2) Don't do something like X:Y proportions. Try to be 1:1 with your sheet. (at worst 2:1)
    3) always use x² don't use a 30X26

    128 x 32
    2011-10-26_2037.png

    32 x 32
    2011-10-26_2038.png

    the "wrap" feature will still cause issues, so you will need to turn it off

    Delko wrote: »
    Or its not.
    pretty sure I recall these issues before Autodesk acquired Maya, a friend of mine mentioned don't use anything under 16x16 for render
  • VPrime
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    VPrime polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for the suggestions TigerFeet, here is some changes..
    Personally I am mor of a fan of the old textures, but my partner on the game really likes it.
    cartoony.png
  • Graphicalgeek
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    Graphicalgeek polycounter lvl 10
    Rapante wrote: »
    damn you guys keep pumping out amazing stuff!

    finally got around to texture my biker :) I'll have to iron out a few skinning problems and do some tweaks, but basically it's done :D

    powerbike_rider_tex.png

    Very slick! The rider might be too similar to the bike, as it's hard to define where one ends and the other begins, unless that is what you are going for?
  • TonyClifton
    I am working on this little schmock, for a game on the Android platform. There is still the bigger wip texture on the model.

    schmock.jpg

    d5gYI.gif
    f6f3d
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    Hmm allright, so you're saying it's just something to do with the texture size being so small? My texture is 128x128. I'll go ahead and start working around it. Thank you for looking into it for me :)
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    Very slick! The rider might be too similar to the bike, as it's hard to define where one ends and the other begins, unless that is what you are going for?

    That's what I was thinking too. It's a great model and tex, but they do blend together.
  • [SF]Three9
    sooooooooo Tigerfeet did you even look at my post?
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    [SF]Three9 wrote: »
    sooooooooo Tigerfeet did you even look at my post?
    Yes I did. Thank you for taking the time to do the paint over, but I'm not really concerned with stretching (needing to make the inside tire UVs a trapezoid). My issue was with the bleed. Because the texture is so small (128 x 128) I need the pixels to line up exactly. I was hoping I'd be able to snap my UVs to the pixels but it looks like that's not the case. If you look at the first picture I posted you'll see that in order to get the up and down lined up properly I actually had to push the UVs off the texture, bleed area or no. The most frustrating thing is it looks perfectly lined up in the UV editor and in the viewport but the render button tells a 1/2 pixel different story.
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 12
    Vprime, I think you should spend more polies on giving the houses more interesting silhouettes, and less on the trees and lights. You'll also want to vary the house shapes a bit I think.

    Suburban-Street-c.jpg

    As for a cartoony style, have a look at some of Kenneth Fejer's (aka Tennis) work:
    lowpoly_house.giflowpoly_house_anim.gif

    Your latest WIP is going in the right direction, but I still feel your textures are trying to be too realistic. Also, please pixel the road, the AA on the striping is very bothersome.


    Rapante, you could tighten up the texture a bunch by straightening out texture islands. Less stairstepping = more awesome.

    TonyClifton, you'll want to play around with your colors a bit, give the shadows some color, and make the cannon a bunch lighter because right now there's no volume discernible. If you're just using fullbright textures and no shading you could do away with the chamfers, btw.


    Delko, maybe you want to cut down on the dithering. Based on what I'm seeing here you'll get a lot of speckly noise while animated. Also try to adjust the amount of detail in your texture to the size an object uses on screen. Take a look at the rims for instance, which looks like someone used the MSpaint spraycan on it. Along the same lines, you might wanna thicken the highlights on the trunk.
  • Delko
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    Delko polycounter lvl 12
  • TonyClifton
    Snader, thanks for your reply! I am still figuring out which textures/shader can be used for Android (with Unity). But let me ask you, what do you mean by "you could do away with the chamfers"?
  • [SF]Three9
    well hmm...don't think I have an answer for that then tiger, sorry buddy :(...I'm not used to doing extremely low poly textures or uvs

    sorry for misunderstanding your dilemma!
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 12
    Snader, thanks for your reply! I am still figuring out which textures/shader can be used for Android (with Unity). But let me ask you, what do you mean by "you could do away with the chamfers"?

    cannonsaving.png
  • premium
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    premium polycounter lvl 9
    IMG5685-1319753829.jpg
    Started something.
  • TonyClifton
    Got it! Thanks, Snader!
  • VPrime
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    VPrime polycounter lvl 9
    Sander thanks for the feedback.
    Are there nay good tutorials on creating a UVmap/texture like the house example you provided?
    I created a similar looking model but I am having a hard time figuring out how to uvmap so it can reuse certain parts of the texture without increasing the poly count. (like that tiny 32x32 texture with that house).

    The way I was doing it before had lots of wasted texture space

    6.png
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    VPrime, the obvious wasted space is having both sides of that house on the sheet since they are the same. And you could use the same snow for roof and ground.
    Thats a 1/4 of your space there.

    Invert 2 sets of buildings and have the v's of the roofs overlap.

    to a degree you need more tris to tile more.

    Notice that the house that snade posted uses the same window all around. But on the sides and back it's mirrored, that that makes one more tri for the back, and 2 for the sides (over just texturing plain) . that's another 1/4 of your tex usage.

    But your house specs are so low as is i don't think a few more tris would hurt.

    You could use the top half of your buidling front for the top half of the back, the bottom half of the back could use the left side of the one building side you have left (after tiling and getting rid of one)

    A quick ps job. Basically cut the space in half with only a resize of the snowflake.
  • VPrime
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    VPrime polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks Baddcog, I think I somewhat get it now :). Will try that with the new model.
    Here is a wip of a new house.. Ignore the house thing on the right, that will be a garage or something eventually.
    newhouse.png
  • Delko
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    Delko polycounter lvl 12
    johnas wrote: »
    So much inspiring stuff here, I wish I'd have more time to do 3d :shifty:

    Especially got excited of those schweet bikes but I'm more into old muscle cars so I started to do really low polied muscle beast. I'd like to make pixel styled texture but haven't got pleasing result sofar. Tips are appreciated, in the meanwhile here's the mesh. No fancy turntables, so I just copied the car, tricount is 546 with the wheels included.

    mustang67-001.jpg

    Whats issues have you run into with your textures? I may be able to help.
  • Michael Knubben
    Zoid wrote: »
    don't use anything under 16x16 for render

    Allow me to fix that for you: Don't render.

    Seriously though, why would you even bother with this hassle, if the goal of all this is to do something that is useless? The render won't offer you anything but aa, and you can get that a few different ways. One is get a bigger screengrab and resize it, another is to force aa in your nvidia (or ati *shudder*) control panel. Another is to say 'fuck aa, I'm making pixel art'.
  • Michael Knubben
    Delko wrote: »
    bridgein.png
    bridge

    That looks fantastic! Initially though, I was just shocked at the similarity to what I was doing at work a while back, heh. We were working on a mobile racing game (I posted some of the characters in here), and I went for almost the exact colours! I suppose we're both inspired by the same games from our youth, when green grass and blue skies were common :)

    Vprime: I'd say it all looks too dirty. That can be partially solved by introducing some colour to your shadows (can make the difference between nuclear fallout and cozy winter), but even then I'd take advantage of the strength of small textures and exaggerate everything more. It will push things in a more cartoony direction, but I believe that just works better with such lowres graphics.
    I would also do away with the tiny bevels and other detail in your mesh and spend those tris on cutting up your mesh. This way you could have a small texture with a few windows and a few doors, and have each house be different without having to uniquely texture each one.
  • Delko
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    Delko polycounter lvl 12
    I was just shocked at the similarity to what I was doing at work a while back, heh. We were working on a mobile racing game (I posted some of the characters in here
    Could you link to those posts? Id love to see what you had made.
  • Zoid
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    Zoid polycounter lvl 10
    MightyPea wrote: »
    Allow me to fix that for you: Don't render.
    ?
    what do you mean just use screen grabs?
    without rendering I really don't think I have a way to create an image sequence.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz sublime tool
    Zoid wrote: »
    without rendering I really don't think I have a way to create an image sequence.

    Window > Playblast
  • Zoid
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    Zoid polycounter lvl 10
    PolyHertz wrote: »
    Window > Playblast
    doesn't seem to allow alpha channels for sprite sheets :(
  • green
    Nice work everyone. This thread is always a lust for the eyes.
  • VPrime
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    VPrime polycounter lvl 9
    So here are the new houses I made with textures (texture is still wip).. I think this UV map is better, but I compromised on the snow, made it a solid white.
    Each house is 55 tris, with garage it is 80 tris versus the 20 from the old houses before.

    128x128 texture (I left rooma t the top of the map for things like trees, christmas lights etc.).. I honestly don't know how some of you work at these kind of resolutions!?
    texture.png
    Here is a picture from the viewport (not in game yet with any lightmaps)
    7.png

    I think I am going to remove the little dip in the roof as you can't really see it and it will save a bit of polys with a bunch of houses on screen.
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah this is looking pretty good. I agree on the dip in the spine of the roof, but the ones on the lower edge do add a nice curve.

    It looks a bit like you're using floating geometry for the windows and doors? This could give z-fighting issues , so be careful.

    You said you were looking in to shaders, do you think it would be possible to color the houses by using a mask? This would give you four times the variety at the cost of an alpha-channel. Actually, it would give you infinitely more. You could mask 4 different window/door layouts, and then you could randomly generate a color for each house.

    Actually, I might give this a whirl, see what I can come up with.
  • VPrime
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    VPrime polycounter lvl 9
    The windows and doors are just textured on the house, only floating geometry is the chimney.

    Won't be using any shaders, though that is a good idea will look into it and see if we have time to do something like that.
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 12
    I'm thinking you could benefit a bunch by floating some more. These 3 houses are made from a house block, a roof block, and 2 have an extra block for the door.

    houses_42_44_34.png
    Here's what I got after 30 minutes of doodling. You could very easily make variations by dragging the entire unwrap down, like I did with the least house.

    Often, when you're making a bunch of buildings, it's better to start with the texture and then build geometry with that in mind.

    Also, I recommend you look at working on a grid, this simplifies things a lot. For example, these are 3x2 and 2x3, which means I can easily swap and rotate roofs for even more variation.
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    VPrime: I'm enjoying watching your progress, each new picture you post is an improvement :D keep going!
  • D4V1DC
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    D4V1DC polycounter lvl 13
    Delko:
    So glad you kept up with this, It's all awesome and I am loving that bridge!

    Love everything here, especially those lowpoly bikes. :)
  • JohnnySix
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    JohnnySix polycounter lvl 12
    Can't wait to see your game in action Delko, really love the style.


    ultra-small sprite - might need CTRL+middlemouse zoom.

    spaceman_sprite_01_by_johnnysix-d4e9fhp.png
  • Delko
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    Delko polycounter lvl 12
    Thanks for all the support guys, it makes the hours of grinding in MSpaint and max worth it.
    @snader Completely missed your comment, sorry about that. I suppose I could drop the wheels resolution down to 32x32, would read better from a distance but would lose a lot of detail in the wheels. I'll have to experiment with that. Im having trouble with the textures turning into noise at a distance, regardless of the use of dithering or not. Im wondering if some subtle anisotropic filtering wouldn't minimize that.
    -edit-
    mountains3.png
    Pretty much done, im going to add in some scenery like houses and maybe a barn since its all just tree tree tree tree rock tree tree, oh and a bridge, at the moment.
  • felipefrango
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    felipefrango polycounter lvl 9
    Johnny, that's so cute. :v
  • MadCarrot
    a little 32x32 sprite idle animation from me

    pixel_sarge__idle_32x32_by_madgharr-d4dxt15.gif
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    MadCarrot wrote: »
    pixel_sarge__idle_32x32_by_madgharr-d4dxt15.gif
    "Man, this belt just won't adjust!"
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    MadCarrot, if you tighten up those graphics anymore they might implode!
  • VPrime
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    VPrime polycounter lvl 9
    I think I'm done the base houses. Next up the decorations.
    doneithink.png
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