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LOWPOLY (or: the optimisation appreciation organisation)

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  • Betty Hime
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    Betty Hime polycounter lvl 9
    Hey, I was hoping one of you could help me out. I've been trying to lower my tri-count on one of my models. However, as illustrated in the image below, when I click on either of these faces, it selects both of them and tells me my tri count is 4 instead of 2. I've made sure all the vertices are merged, but no joy. Anyone give me some advice? I am using Maya 2010.example.png
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    wip2.png
    still heavily wip 574 tris 256x256 texture

    Well there goes my idea of cigar smokin' pumpkin :poly142:

    Gloves should maybe have slightly more shading to help read it better? Also why is there seam running through the shoes? :P

    Looks nice anyhow!

    @Betty Hime Have you just simply tried deleting all the faces on that side of the object, and then making them from scratch? Because now those 2 tris clearly share some of their geometry because your app sees them as 1 single poly.
  • Micah
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    Micah polygon
    As everyone else is showing their low poly pumpkins, I might aswell do it:

    donem.png
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    Severly bummed out. I went through and did text work for at least a half hour, didn't save and ps crashed :(

    Might call it good, might come back...

    Wires
    pumpwire.jpg

    I could probably lose a section height wise in the pumpkins, couple faces from the stems, one tri per snoflake.. Not too worried though, it's under budget
  • paradise.engineering
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    paradise.engineering polycounter lvl 6
    9skulls wrote: »
    Well there goes my idea of cigar smokin' pumpkin :poly142:
    Gonna use the punk one for your bike contest too :)
    I still need to shade some parts more and fix some seams
    wip3.png
    Lowpoly Haloween Contest


    edit:
    wip4.png
    I've reduced the texture size to 128x128 and I like it better this way.
  • Betty Hime
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    Betty Hime polycounter lvl 9
    I deleted and re-drew the lines. This seemed to fix the problem! Thanks!
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    Micah: I love your pumpkins! It looks like you've got them rigged for some squash and stretch, is that right? They're super cute and I love the monochromatic color scheme :)

    On my biker chick, thanks a bunch guys :)

    About the nose being black on one side in the wires... remember how I said I didn't know how to render wireframes? It's just a texture on top of the model. I'll make sure to find a nicer looking solution for a final render. It'd be nice if I could put this in my portfolio :)

    I'm not sure I agree on the color critique, but I'm not very sure of my own eye either, so I made a couple of changes with different colors and I'm going to sit on them for a while to see which one I like. I made the texture completely modular though so color changes are no big deal :) Right now though I'm leaning toward making the shirt white and the sash/gunbelt dark grey. I think it punches up the teal in the bandanna a lot more.

    I'll refrain from posting more images until I've got something to show for the bike :)
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    My entry for the Halloween contest:


    horriblehorriblepumpkin_v1.gif

    »
    Tris: 282



    pumpkinpie_tx.png

    »
    Texture: 128x64

    Not very original, but hey, it has a stick stuck into his.. head, or body, or, something.
  • Pivot
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    Pivot polycounter lvl 6
    A biker!!

    bikerwip2rerend-s.png

    The texture's still a work in progress, but I really should be doing school work instead :X

    Here's the wires, but there's still a couple extraneous triangles lying around here and there (and I need to redo the neck) (agh)
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    @Pivot Looking good so far! That vertical eye patch is brilliant :D
  • Micah
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    Micah polygon
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    Micah: I love your pumpkins! It looks like you've got them rigged for some squash and stretch, is that right? They're super cute and I love the monochromatic color scheme :)

    Thanks, and yer thats the idear, but animations have never been my strong point...

    9skulls: thats sick! stick looks like stone to me though, think its the colors.
  • Rapante
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    Rapante polygon
    @9skulls thanks for making me do this :) now it's up to you guys to split some more edges :D

    had tons of fun making it, and will do the rider soon, so it's a complete piece of work :)

    powerbike.png

    and a turntable

    powerbike.gif
  • Racer445
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    Racer445 polycounter lvl 11
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    Rapante wrote: »

    powerbike.gif

    I THINK I JUST CAME.


    REALLY.


    Seriously duuuuuuuuuuuude! IS THAT NOT THE MOST EPIC THING EVER!? :polytwitch: :polytwitch: :polytwitch:

    It is so beautifully crafted that I could cry. It's so chunky but yet so streamlined, and it looks really "authentic" if I may say so. Shading and color choices are top notch and I can't see much of a texture stretch despite all the slightly curved shapes. Just awesome. And the most awesome thing is that you obviously had so much fun doin' it which really was the whole point in here.

    Great job mate. If the bike itself was this cool, then the biker must be out of this world :poly142:

    PS: Could these edges be trimmed away?
    asdsu.jpg

    PPS: Talking about the smooth shading, did you use soft brushes there or is it baked AO that I am seeing there?
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    Rapante,

    Nice ride.

    But people, HUBS need to spin with wheels ;)
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    Baddcog wrote: »
    But people, HUBS need to spin with wheels ;)
    Look who's talking, mr "oh-I-haven't-even-finished-my-bike-yet" :shifty:
  • Rapante
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    Rapante polygon
    thanks guys, glad you dig it!

    yeah you're probably right about the top two edges, guess I'll get rid of them when I do the rider :) I could trim the on the wheel cover as well, but I rather have it retain it's roundness here, maybe I'll strengthen the curve, make it a bit more prominent :)

    The shading is a mix of two, it's both an AO pass (yeah, I know filthy cheap cheating :D) and manually done gradients I've layered on top of the pixeled stuff where needed.

    9skulls wrote: »
    Look who's talking, mr "oh-I-haven't-even-finished-my-bike-yet" :shifty:

    haha that literally made me laugh to tears for a few minutes now :D
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    Rapante wrote: »
    powerbike.gif
    :poly101: That's gorgeous! Enough to give a girl stage fright.

    Honestly I don't know anything about bikes, so I decided to make something completely ridiculous. Also I still work kinda slow :/

    I did figure out how to render proper wireframes though! Turntable, GO!
    BikeWireSpin.gif
    It's 633 tris, and looking at the model that number seems a little low, could Maya be lying to me?

    I've got a texturing and animation question for you guys too. Have you merged all the pieces into a single mesh?
    - If not, how do you get all the UVs sorted so there's a single texture?
    - If so, how do you go about animating different pieces of the same mesh, wheels spinning, body vibrating?
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    BikeWireSpin.gif
    Hey that is looking great! So far I cannot spot any flaws in it, other than it is looking a bit thin to my eyes. Is it intentional? I'd scale it to be a bit wider, and make that rear wheel at least 2x wider than the front wheel. Oh and know what would look so SICK? Change the horn to something more like this (look at the drill) :D AND MAKE IT BLOODY.

    +10 points for the rockets :)
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    It's 633 tris, and looking at the model that number seems a little low, could Maya be lying to me?
    Well it could be true, if you are sure it is counting as tris and not quads?
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    I've got a texturing and animation question for you guys too. Have you merged all the pieces into a single mesh?
    Nope. In my bike I got the chassis, engine, fork and both wheels as separate objects. Mostly because of mirroring stuff and making it possible to animate steering and accelaration of the wheels.
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    - If not, how do you get all the UVs sorted so there's a single texture?
    It was a bit tricky, at least in Blender. I heard there was addons created to make the job easier, but I didn't feel like googling for them. So I went all McGyver with it: I unwrapped and cleaned up every object separately, then viewed the whole model in checker texture to make sure the texel density is about the same in all of the pieces. Then I took a screen cap out of every object's uv-layout, pasted it in photoshop and began to play around the uv-islands to make them fit together as good as possible. Then I saved that image as a reference texture to be used inside the modelling software for the actual UV-layout. It may sound ... well, McGiver-y, but it worked.

    ^ This, or, as the poster below said, if your model allows it, do the unwrapping first and then just slice it to pieces.
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    - If so, how do you go about animating different pieces of the same mesh, wheels spinning, body vibrating?
    If one was to animate the bike as a one single mesh, I guess the easiest way of doing the wheel spin would probably be using shape keys (that's what it is called in Blender. You'll probably see something like morphing etc in other packages. Though if I remember correctly, at least in 3DS Max mesh morphing needed you to clone the mesh and add modifiers and stuff to make it work... In Blender, shape keys are just part of any mesh on the stage).
  • Rapante
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    Rapante polygon
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    :poly101: That's gorgeous! Enough to give a girl stage fright.

    thanks :)
    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    I've got a texturing and animation question for you guys too. Have you merged all the pieces into a single mesh?
    - If not, how do you get all the UVs sorted so there's a single texture?
    - If so, how do you go about animating different pieces of the same mesh, wheels spinning, body vibrating?

    well for the texturing I had all of the meshes merged into a single object so I could do the UV layout easily, afterwards I slitted the model into the different parts.

    as for animating, in 3dsmax you can simply link meshed to be a child of another, so I animated my wheels rotating and linked them to the main body which I then scaled to make the wobbly animation. all objects linked to the main body will inherit its scaling animation so it looks consistent without too much work.
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    Thank you both very much! I think I might do what you did Rapante, merge it all together then once the UVs are layed out separate everything. I'm pretty sure that'll work in Maya. If not then 9skull's way is always there.

    9skull, I like the drill idea! I didn't have anything planned for the horn but that shouldn't be too difficult with texturing.
  • gilesruscoe
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    gilesruscoe polycounter lvl 7
    NIce bikes everyone :p working on mine atm.... will post it tomoz maybe ;)
  • paradise.engineering
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    paradise.engineering polycounter lvl 6
    Rapante wrote: »
    powerbike.gif

    that's perfect! You know a fat guy couldn't ride it tho

    Tigerfeet wrote: »
    BikeWireSpin.gif
    so awesome! 9skulls is totally right, would look better wider and with a wider back wheel
  • Mercury
    @9skulls - Awesome pumpkin, like the animation, i'll be adding knife in mine pumpkin :)

    @Rapante - Grat bike man, I really love it ...



    Here's something from me ... It's still a WIP, i have to work on texture some more ... It's pretty blurry right now ...


    1cd53.png
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    @Mercury Sweet colors mate :D



    Working on something new, WIP:
    ac-turntable-v1.gif
    _______________________
    Can you tell what it is?
  • paradise.engineering
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    paradise.engineering polycounter lvl 6
    arcade or jackpot

    Mercury is that for the Lowpoly Haloween Contest? cause if it is you also need to post it there.
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    It's a team fortress 2 arcade game
  • ima
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    ima polycounter lvl 8
    @Rapante amazing bike, but you could also make the hubs and inside of the wheels alpha textured quads instead of actual geometry(?) That's 30 less tris I think.
    PS. I don't know a lot about low poly stuff, so tell me if I'm being silly.
  • Delko
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    Delko polycounter lvl 11
    puch.png
    Puch Magnum
    puchpic.png
    technically a moped but...it looks cool.
  • leilei
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    leilei polycounter lvl 12
    toach2.jpg

    Made quickly (23 minutes) to replace a very ugly 310 polygon 512x512x24 torch someone else made. and then i got a sudden bad headache :(
  • wildmax
  • Rapante
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    Rapante polygon
    Mercury: nice one!

    9skulls: man you're pumping out assets like a squirrel on dope :) can't wait to see it finished :D

    wildmax: nice bike! keep it coming!
    ima wrote: »
    @Rapante amazing bike, but you could also make the hubs and inside of the wheels alpha textured quads instead of actual geometry(?) That's 30 less tris I think.
    PS. I don't know a lot about low poly stuff, so tell me if I'm being silly.

    note: this is just my personal opinion, so don't take it as a definite in low poly modelling :)

    I think it's working against the style using alpha planes for that as to make them really look round you'd need a larger texture than the single 128x128px diffuse. (which was my goal because 9Skulls kind of set the benchmark here :D :angel:)

    to make it look really good it would need to be a texture with soft alpha - which is a performance hit for most lower end devices; as a plus a soft alpha adds quite a lot of a memory impact for those devices (somehow not true for some PowerVR based chipsets :shifty:). so it'd both lower the FPS (and I had my fair share of shit coming along when doing UIs with alpha on iOS devices) and impact the amount of memory available for things more important than the wheel hub!

    And now for the cake of the icing, I just like it better that way :poly121:
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 14
    9skulls wrote: »

    Riding - Isometric:
    v3_riding.gif

    Heh I'm liking the bounce to this! And the scarf is looking much better. Spinning the hubs with the wheels might help to make them smoother, or you could go the DS mariokart route and place one quad over the sides with a circular texture on.

    You most certainly might want to move the mudguards up a touch to stop them clipping with the tyres.

    GIF seems a bit screwed to me, last frame is all garbled, what are you exporting them from? I tried fixing it in Photoshop; removed the first frame and equalised all the frames to run on the same delay, exported with no transparency, lossy to zero, lets see: (It may be because there's transparency in the original that the artefacts appear, or that there's a lossy setting on)

    v3_riding2.gif
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 14
    Delko wrote: »
    puch.png
    Puch Magnum
    puchpic.png
    technically a moped but...it looks cool.

    Nice work! (yes I have a soft spot for low poly motorbikes!).

    You might want to reduce the cuts on the crossbar to make it fit in with the rest of the bike. Also a few other angles of this bike wouldn't hurt, the seat is most definitely too thin, along with the wheels, crossbar etc.

    A very cool bike when they have been minimalised, much like the fixie of the moped world.

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2690007295_d2c5a309c2.jpg
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 14
    Here's a monkeybike I did a few years back (in gmax!) for a bit of fun, if it helps anyone.
    I should definitely revisit this!

    mkb_left.png
    mkb_wire.png

    more:
    http://dadako.com/forums/mkb_right.png
    http://dadako.com/forums/mkb_scale.png

    Although I made it a while back some of the key principles to budgeting your triangles still count: (the budget was 1024 tris)

    1. Maximise your detail on the tyres, spend as many polygons as you can here. Beg borrow and steal geometry from around the bike to feed these hungry beasts. This is the area that will get the most attention, as they move and the eye is naturally drawn to them as they spin.

    2. Remove any detail that doesn't add to the silhouette of the bike or can be done just as well in a texture. You don't need to model that brake cable when a 6 tris plane can do the same job. That tiny bit of metal that connects the shocks or pedals, is it ever seen?

    3. Floating geometry is king. Stick pipes into planes, tubes into tubes. Geo doesn't need to be connected, you can save huge amounts of triangles here. The focus is the end shape and not the geo flow.

    4. Try to remove as many curves out of your pipes as possible. Only curve when it adds to the silhouette. As you can see above, I could have collapsed that one loop in the middle of the long part on the handlebars and saved a whole bunch of tris without changing the models appearance.

    5. Reference regularly, make sure it can be ridden by your player model.

    6. Try to avoid "dirty modelling" - the bike is not a table, it will fall over. If the under part of your seat was deleted due to saving 2 triangles, that's going to look weird when seen.
  • Tigerfeet
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    Tigerfeet Polycount Sponsor
    Rapante wrote: »
    it would need to be a texture with soft alpha - which is a performance hit for most lower end devices; as a plus a soft alpha adds quite a lot of a memory impact for those devices (somehow not true for some PowerVR based chipsets :shifty:). so it'd both lower the FPS (and I had my fair share of shit coming along when doing UIs with alpha on iOS devices

    O-oh.... :shifty::shifty::shifty: *ninja-delete-headlight-shine*

    In other news, I love seeing these low-poly bikes! I don't know much about bikes, but I do definitely appreciate sexy machinery. :D
  • Fomori
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    Fomori polycounter lvl 8
    Damn! Think I might have to join in with this low poly motorbike thang. Inspiring.
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    Delko wrote: »
    puch.png
    A moped, awesome! Have you thought of what kind of style you're aiming for with the rider model? If I may suggest points of improvements, as hawken said: you should try to make the bike a bit more wider, too. Especially the tires look too thin.

    Are you going get rid of that mirror line in the middle of the chassis when you get your model finishded? Because I think you should do that. The middle line is giving nothing to the profile of your bike, so it would save tons of tris there and you could spend them to something more important.

    Also I'd prolly do something for these:

    fffvk.jpg

    And first I thought I saw some unnecessary edges in the engine department, but then I realized the engine is just made of overlapping parts, am I right?

    Good work anyways!

    __________________________________________

    @leilei That torch is looking good :) It's yelling for animated fire!
    __________________________________________

    @wildmax Nice solid start there! I'd triangulate the sides of the petrol tank to make the shape more natural (that one quad there seems to "stretch" out a bit too much).
    __________________________________________

    @Rapante Haha, squirrel on dope.. And I'm messing up all my nuts 'cause of dat.

    Oh wait, what was the analogue again... :poly141:

    About the cabin, I may have some kind of texture to show later today.
    __________________________________________

    @hawken Thanks for the comment! And yea I should raise the fender – again. Last update wasn't 'nuff I see.

    And what browser do you watch the gif with? One other dude also complained about not seeing the gif properly (on dA). I'm using Firefox 7-something it is working as supposed to. I also tested it on IE8 (eeeeeeeeeew, I had to use IE! I had to watch porn for like 2 hrs just to clean up my head from that kind of carbage >_>) which seemed to work "fine" if you don't count in the slooooooowwww FPS of ~8-10 or something.

    Guess I should do another test with Google Chrome.
    __________________________________________

    @hawken Oh and about your bike: is that your entry for this bikefest? It's looking good... Wait! Is that... Is that...

    ... AN N-GON ON YOUR BIKE'S GAS TANK!? My god :D

    Also is there somekind of fancy reflection stuff going on with the shiny parts of your bike, or is it just cleverly textured?

    ALSO, I agree with the points you made in that post. Especially the 1. and 3. one. My first thoughts were when I started modelling my own bike was "I seriously got to make those wheels look chubby".

    Cuz I looove it chubby.
    __________________________________________

    @Tigerfeet You are just like the ninjas from old movies. They always yell right before they perform the sneak attack :D

    __________________________________________

    @Fomori You are OBLIGATED to do so! Now at least.
  • Delko
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    Delko polycounter lvl 11
    Thanks for all the crits guys, I think Ive got it sorted out now. I still haven't removed the symmetry lines tho, so just that into account.
    puchm.png
    9hpglf.jpg
    @9skulls
    haven't really thought about that yet. Its a pretty small bike IRL, so ill probably have to go with lankier proportions compared to what everyone else is doing.
  • Rapante
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    Rapante polygon
    Delko wrote: »
    Thanks for all the crits guys, I think Ive got it sorted
    I was going to post a nice turn table animation, but apparently 3dsmax cant do a shaded wireframe render without having vray installed, so meh.

    it can! but unfortunately not by rendering it. Go to your "animation" dropdown menu and choose "make preview"

    you won't be able to render directly to a gif, but you'll be able to render single frames and put them together in your image manipulation app of choice!
  • Delko
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    Delko polycounter lvl 11
    thanks, that did it!
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    @Delko Looking great :)


    Here's the texture WIP for my arcade cabin:
    ac-turntable-v3.gif

    Oh what's the inspiration behind that, you ask? I'm glad you asked! I am trying to combine – succesfully – this, this and this.
  • felipefrango
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    felipefrango polycounter lvl 9
    Ooh, I like the glow effect on that turntable 9skulls, how did you do it? Also, great bikes everyone, specially Rapante, awesome texture work as usual.
  • renderhjs
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    renderhjs sublime tool
    nice stuff on the last 2 pages- maybe I should make a bike as well
  • 9skulls
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    9skulls polycounter lvl 10
    Ooh, I like the glow effect on that turntable 9skulls, how did you do it?
    It's just some Blender magic with nodes. I may get rid of it for the final version since it doesn't really add as much to the overall look as I tought it would.
  • Harry
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    Harry polycounter lvl 13
    are the bikes part of an event or challenge? I'd like to participate, and i know just the bike i'd like to make.

    as for me i'm doing some tweaks to lighting and environment in dicta. I think it's starting to look more natural.

    Since i've posted in this thread we've also implemented morph targets, so the early planes without ailerons properly warp their wings :D

    Cloud distribution still sucks. That's the next thing I hope to revisit.

    natch.jpg
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 14
    9skulls wrote: »
    And what browser do you watch the gif with?

    Just webkit (safari / chrome) - I think it would be safer to remove any transparency & loss on export)
    9skulls wrote: »
    Oh and about your bike: is that your entry for this bikefest?
    What bikefest? Nah, I modelled that back in 2003... I have the file in MAX format but am now on a mac, no way to open it.


    Maybe it's time for a bike challenge.
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 14
    bike and rider? Budget 2048 tris for the lot?
    Textures? nothing over 256x256?

    or Strictly 1024 tris for the bike?
  • Harry
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    Harry polycounter lvl 13
    1024 tri bike 256x256 texture sounds grand to me
  • Maph
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    Maph polycounter lvl 8
    Great work on the last few pages guys! Rapante, you sir have some serious low res texturing skillz. Did you make that texture the olde pixel painting way (ie. one pixel at a time)?

    9skulls: Gorgeous bike and cabinet! I'm actually building an arcade cabinet for reals so I'm biased, but yours rocks mah socks.

    Edit: this bike thing is pretty tempting, I've been dying to do some more LP work!
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