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[WIP] Sniper Wolf - Metal Gear Solid Next Gen character

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JustAfterDark polygon
So, here she is! 1st of all I want to thank again all those people that insisted on me learning anatomy. Really thankful for that.
I will break down piece by piece the whole project.
References:
Base mesh:
I tried to drift away a bit from the manga style on Shinkawa's concept but still trying to keep her pronounced chin and pointy nose.
Hair was sculpted as a place holder. I still have to learn how to make it in XGen or Fibermesh or something in between.

I hope you like it, I will keep updating as progress is being made. Feedback and critiques are very much welcomed. Thanks for checking in!

Replies

  • Ashervisalis
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    Ashervisalis high dynamic range
    Hey, are you using reference for the face? Proportions and anatomy are way off.
  • slosh
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    slosh quad damage
    I would nuke the hair til you nail the anatomy on the face and head.  It will throw you off.
  • JustAfterDark
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    JustAfterDark polygon
    @Ashervisalis @slosh Hey guys, thanks for coming by. References:
    Sharing another shot without hair just in case things look less off now.

    Let me know, thanks!
  • Ashervisalis
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    Ashervisalis high dynamic range
    I would drop the divisions a few times and work on the form of the face more.

    - Nose bridge is far too narrow, especially in proportion to the size of the end of her nose.
    - Sides of the mouth are really flat.
    - Eye lids are too thin.
    - Her ears look really far back.
    - Her mouth is possible too wide.

    I think you should study the planes of the face, as well as facial anatomy. For some reference images, keep some pics of facial muscular and skeletal structure handy. If you're not doing so yet, download the program PureRef, it's amazing, and free. Keep going!!
  • JustAfterDark
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    JustAfterDark polygon
    @Ashervisalis I'm sorry for the lack of response, I've been dealing with some stuff at home. I hope to be able to come back soon. Thanks for the feedback man.
  • Ashervisalis
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    Ashervisalis high dynamic range
  • JustAfterDark
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    JustAfterDark polygon
    I finally had some time to work on this again. Been learning general anatomy as well (body/face).

    @Ashervisalis @slosh I applied your suggestions, I'm very happy to be learning anatomy, to be honest. I'll do the hair when finally decide what will I use for it. This is at subdivision level 4, not much details to see yet until I'm sure everything sits correctly.
  • JustAfterDark
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    JustAfterDark polygon
    1st ZBrush gif ever!
    More or less, the base mesh is finished, except for the arms, hands, legs and feet, that still need some adjustments and general detailing of the skin, etc. But I think basic proportions are correct (finally) but, who knows, I probably will see something tomorrow or the next day since I'm still in a very noob anatomy phase. I also worked on the face a bit more today, tweaking ears and mouth mostly.

    As usual, comments and feedback are very much appreciated. Thanks for checking in!
  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 8
    Hi~
    It's hard to make out the anatomy because your gif is spinning so fast... but it's looking better I think :)

    Are you looking to match a particular reference for this character, or it's your own interpretation of it? 

    - Ears need some more attention. Use the slice tool to carve a little gap at the top. Now it's joined directly to the head, looks unnatural.
    - Chin seems very protruded, but some people do have more prominent chins, so I guess it depends on the style you want
    - From what I can catch in the spinny gif, her feet look very weird....

    I recommend just show regular front / side, maybe some angled images of the whole body model rather than the spinny gif. 
    Can't make paintovers from the spinning gif....
  • JustAfterDark
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    JustAfterDark polygon
    @vavavoom The character is my interpretation of what she would look like if the game was released in 2020 based on the references I shared. Trying to stay closer to a more realistic look than the original or the remake's looks. Think of her of something like what Capcom did with RE2 and now RE3. I will of course share more references in the future for the outfit and gear as the project moves on.

    Yeah, totally, don't worry about the feet, legs and arms. Today I worked a bit on the arms actually to block out some more the muscles and learn them, will move to the lower body when I can. I can see what you mean on the ear, I was a bit tired and didn't see that, thanks. The chin is prominent based on Shinkawa's concept and the remake itself, it's kind of hard to see inside the forum, but you can open the collage in another tab by right clicking on it>view image on Firefox ;) Thanks for cheking in, dude!

    P.S.: don't worry about paint overs, sooner or later one has to learn anatomy on his own. I'm glad I'm doing it now :)

  • ChiNguyen
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    ChiNguyen polycounter lvl 2
    Your body proportions and facial structures is looking pretty good so far! Good work!
  • JustAfterDark
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    JustAfterDark polygon
    Thanks @ChiNguyen I hope to be able to give an update soon :)
  • JustAfterDark
    Been working on/off during the holidays (happy new year btw!). I believe the basemesh is finally finished for good.

    As usual, thanks for checking in, leave your feedback/comments below if you want :)
  • JustAfterDark
    Finished blocking out the outfit. Will share each gear piece as progress is made on the high poly
    (I have to find a way to reduce gif size and still have decent quality) :#



  • JustAfterDark
    Jacket
    I'm calling the jacket done (for now), further details will be added in Substance, but I'm unsure if noise should be added in ZBrush or if it's better to do it in Substance. Anyways here it is :)
    Updated with new ZBrush BPR:

    Previous ZBrush BPR with NO gravity improvements:

    References:

  • Raybees
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    Raybees polycounter lvl 7
    I feel the boobs are way too big, or at least if they were that big they would have way more sag to them especially with no bra. Its 20 Lbs of tissue each, not balloons full of helium.
  • slosh
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    slosh quad damage
    I agree.  You've exaggerated the anatomy too much IMO.  She feels like a porn star character.  I think its ok to idealize height but you should make her figure more natural.  Her chin feels a bit too pronounced as well.  
  • JustAfterDark
    @Raybees You are absolutely right, further investigation on the matter made me come to the conclusion that one needs references from all angles and postures to have a clear idea of how gravity works, so thank you kindly.
    I knew the jacket didn't fit well, in the base mesh I didn't notice it, so I went ahead and shared it expecting this kind of feedback to help me see what was wrong.
    @slosh Chin is like that based on Shinkawa's concept, check the middle drawing in the reference board, but you are the second person to point it out so I'll have it in mind when working again on the face. And I certainly don't want her to look like a porn start with fake boobs. Thanks guys.
    Sharing the elbow pads now:

    References:
  • JustAfterDark
    Keep on keeping on. Tactical gloves:

    References:

  • JustAfterDark
    Today we have the tactical belt, its buckle and the ammo pouches but I also did a PSG-1 magazine for two ammo pouches that I will reuse when I make the sniper rifle:
    BONUS PICTURE!
    References:
    I'm calling the upper body done. Jacket, elbow pads, tactical gloves, necklace, ammo pouches, tactical belt and all their small high-poly tiny details.

    Leave your feedback and comments. I hope you like it :)
  • JustAfterDark
  • JustAfterDark
    Here we go! Boots:
    References:
    With this, the high poly for the outfit is done, unless I find something I want to add somewhere I didn't see before (which I did XD). Moving now to the face to make the eyes and the final facial structures and skin, also details on the rest of the body. Thanks for checking in :)
  • JustAfterDark
    Re-did some of the face topology to improve the edge flow around the eyes and mounth. Had to reproject but I think it was worth it

    And finally felt confident enough with the face forms to start to add details on the high-poly. Still more work to do, but I'm having a blast and wanted to share to progress so far.
    Until the next one!
  • JustAfterDark
    It took me a bit to get here. I had a lot to learn before UV map the character (still do) and then, baking. And you know I'm not talking about some cupcakes. But I'm in substance! YAAAAY

  • JustAfterDark
    WIP's! Any advice on how to make patterns flow with the proper direction of the clothing? I noticed that you can only rotate a material in one direction, you need to create/duplicate the same material and apply masks to break that pattern, is that the only way?

  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 8
    Hey, thanks for checking out my progress, thought I would return the favor~ :)

    Lot's of cool material detail going on.

    The only thing that hits me in terms of critique right now is the treads on the boots, they seem too 'chunky' , I think they should be smaller and have more of them...BUT, that could be a boot tread style that exists and It's just my own preference, so it's just a style choice thing.

    If you post some more shots , but include the full body in the shots, and different angles (front/ back/side..), it would give more help to offer crits as we can get more of a 'feel' of the overall character and how it's progressing.

    Closeups are nice to show off your detailing work, but it's hard to get a feel of how the characters shaping up as a whole with these alone.   
    Oh, and perhaps lose the background too for more feedback as it's harder to crit with all the background noise distracting from your character.

    Looking forward to seeing more~~~~
  • JustAfterDark
    Thanks @vavavoom I will share some shoots later today :)
    For the boot laces I used this reference.
    But I have to come back and apply to them a different material to break it from the clothe part without spending too much time on them, since in the end it's what it is and it doesn't really need that much attention. Also, kind of big advice in terms of workflow that I learned the hard way. Don't do too much alphas in ZBrush, since mostly everything is doable in Substance and you will have far more control over it, since coming back to the highpoly to make changes is not cool and editing normal maps by hand isn't cool either :# But... lesson learned for the next project.

    Edit: here are the WIP's!

  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 8
    Nice~ :)

    Are you gonna make her gun too?
  • JustAfterDark
    That's my original plan, but for now I want to bring her to completion and then we will see :)
  • JustAfterDark
    I've been playing the make-up artist today

  • pixelpatron
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    pixelpatron greentooth
    I dunno if it's intentional or not, but the outfit feels more like a costume than an actual soldier. (like a cheap halloween "hot nurse" or "sexy army soldier" getup). It's not hitting the mark for me; and honestly leans on objectification. Any decent art director at any reputable game studio would most likely agree. This is coming across as slutty/trashy over sexy.
  • JustAfterDark
    @pixelpatron I'm being totally faithful to the original design from 1998 by Yoji Shinkawa, faithful to the design on the 2002 GameCube remake and faithful to what fans have seen in MGSV Quiet's Sniper Wolf outfit and what cosplayers wear nowadays to cosplay as Sniper Wolf.
    Other than that, objectification, sexualization and so on, it's a debate we can have in a bar having a beer or whatever :)
    Would Sniper Wolf actually exist in a real battlefield? 99,9% sure she wouldn't, then again, Sniper Wolf comes from a videogame series about political espionage with fantasy/sci-fi elements with a lot of japanese anime influences. I'm being faithful to that.
    Thanks for the feedback :)
  • Joseph_Bramlett
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    Joseph_Bramlett polycounter lvl 2
    jumping off of what @pixelpatron has said I kind of agree with them but I think it comes more so from how the cloths fit on her and im not even talking about the plunging neck line. I went to look up reference of this character from cosplayers and the like specifically to see how this outfit if made from actual military fabric would drop across the form and most cosplayers have some kind of skin tight spandex thing while in the MGS 5 costume for Quite its clearly actual cotten or what have you. This design also reminded me of Eva from MGS3 and I cam across her hd version from the MGS3 Pachinko machine. My advice would be to give the clothing another pass and see if you cna find a happy medium between what "konami" has done with this look to HD it and what cosplayers have done with it. Heres some reference.

  • JustAfterDark
    @Joseph_Bramlett I see, that makes more sense. I can share the material breakdown to maybe change your minds though. I'm assuming we are talking about the pants, and I have nothing to say on my defense as you will see down below:
    • Necklace: leather, iron.
    • Jacket: cotton, nylon, latex.
    • Elbowpads: nylon, cotton, iron.
    • Gloves: leather, cotton, plastic.
    • Belt: nylon, iron. (Including ammo pouches).
    • Pants: lycra, latex.
    • Boots: leather, cotton, iron.
    Yep, pants are made of lycra because I wanted to give her more flexibility, in the end is a fantasy character. All of this is very subjective in the end. This far in the project I don't feel ike going back to the lowpoly or changing the highpoly to accomodate to rougher material like cotton or jeans that would adjust less on her body, so I guess I will choose materials more "adequately" next time :P Thanks for taking the time to research the character and for the feedback. I'm leaving some closeups from Substance before start making the hair.


  • JustAfterDark
    Thank you @vavavoom man, for taking the time on writing this all up, I'm sure you spent quite a few minutes :)
    1st things 1st:
    Character is 7,5 heads tall, which a very realistic proportion. You are right I should share more ortographic views on the early stages to showcase proportions and anatomy in the sculpting phase, but nooby me, always wanting to "shine" and showcase how good I am, when in reality I'm nobody and I'm here to actually get better (which already has done wonders btw, glad I'm here). Proportion wise I believe the character is good enough or as good as she is going to be. I will definitely do it better in the next project and will share ortographic views when sculpting.
    On the pants, I agree, I had a conversation with @Joseph_Bramlett and I will change how they fit. It's an easy change that won't even require to remake the UV's, so no problem. It's funny because I always knew they were too tight, but... I went with it anyways :# But I don't know how can I approach the jacket at this point without destroying either the topology or the UV's. Jacket has far more wrinkles and stuff already baked in the normal maps, if I change now the topology to make it less fit, I'm not sure how the wrinkles will hold up. I don't really want to bake again lol
    I'll keep in mind the rest. Thanks man, I do hope I can make the best version possible :)
  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 8
    Cool~~
    It's looking more polished each update~:)

    Yeah, it's a bummer when you get far into a project, and then realise there's a few things maybe could be done better as your learning has progressed, but it's a lot of work to go back and change it.

    I think you'ŕe gonna get better each project you do.

    Looking forward to seeing this project finished. She'll look even nicer if/when she's posed and you make some nice beauty shots~~
  • JustAfterDark
    Thanks man! Yeah, I want to make a quick rig at least to pose her in a more relaxed/stylish stance. Nothing that would take longer than a couple of hours of work.
    Here are the changes for the pants I did earlier today. I had to bake the pants again since the normal map made it look like if I didn't change anything, but not much problem, only time. It's a small change, since I still want them to be tight, but hopefully is enough to make them look more realistic. I also reduced the specular value in the latex, it was indeed too shiny, both in the elbowpads and kneepads.

    I may try to work something out tomorrow to loose the jacket a bit too that doesn't mesh with the UV's, same approach I took to fix the pants.
    Thank you all again for the feedback, it really pushes me to improve :)

    Edit 24h later:

    I'm updating instead of posting to avoid spamming the forum with my work :#
    I applied some subtle changes to the jacket, mostly around the breasts and the armpits to loosen it up and make it (I hope) more realistic. I also added many wrinkles on the stitches to hopefully help sell it. Not much else I can do that doesn't involve sculpting a new high-poly to bake new normal maps, which I don't want. So I believe I will do better in the next character regardless.
    I'm thankful to those that provide critique and specially to those that are harsh on their critics. As time goes by in my learning journey, I'm noticing that those are the ones that are actually making me improve.
  • JustAfterDark
    I've been away from updating while learning how to make hair. Before giving my 1st hair update, I wanted to show how the character stands.
    I redid the pants' material and added more dirt details to match more the looks on the jacket. I'm also wondering how to add more depth to the skin details, because all my pores from ZBrush look in the same colour and that's unrealistic. From afar it looks ok I guess, but from closeup I think it lacks variation. Any advice?
  • JustAfterDark
    It's been a difficult month, and I'm not talking about this pandemic. Hair is such a science on its own. Learning it from zero has been harsh but I never gave up. I would appreciate some feedback on it while I get ready to pose her and set up the final scene. I'm so close! Thanks for all the critique/feedback so far! If you have feedback for anything else, I also welcome it and encourage it.
    Stay safe!
  • HarlequinWerewolf
    One of the things that sticks out to me just now is the lack of colour variation in the face. It could do with more variations in reds and yellows and some blues to cool it down. 



    Also, I am super impressed by your progress and commitment :+1:

  • JustAfterDark
    @HarlequinWerewolf I think some of that got lost when I added the make up but I also think I failed balancing out dermis and epidermis. Thank you for the feedback, that's exactly what I was looking for when I asked in the previous post lol I will give it another pass, that reference is super helpful. Also, thank you for your kind words! :)
  • JustAfterDark
    I believe she feels more alive now. Let me know what you think. @HarlequinWerewolf Seriously, that reference was super helpful.
    Time to start posing!
  • slosh
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    slosh quad damage
    I think your lighting is crazy blown out.  her skin is turning almost white.  
  • JustAfterDark
    @slosh hmmm yeah, let's try again.
    I think I found a good balance now. Thanks for always noticing stuff I don't see at 1st man.
  • JustAfterDark
    I think nobody has noticed that I finished this for the time being XD https://polycount.com/discussion/221075/finished-sniper-wolf-metal-gear-solid-remake-fan-art#latest
    Maybe I should updated here instead of creating a new thread?
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