Monthly Environment Art Challenge - Nov. & Dec. 2016 (45)

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greentooth
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kadeschui greentooth
Hello everyone and welcome to the Monthly Environment & Prop Challenge for the month(s) of November & December !!!

Last Challenge was a great success with truly amazing work by all. A special congrats to @jwills whose work was featured on the Polycount front page!! Amazing effort all around and it's exciting to see so many participants.

The new 2-month format seems to be a success, so we'll continue with that for all forthcoming Environment Challenges.

Lastly, a reminder that for each Challenge, per community request, I'll be posting the winning concepts for these categories (broadly):

Environment: "Hard Surface"
Environment: "Painterly"
Prop: "Hard Surface"
Prop: "Painterly"

The hope is to provide several options we've voted on to accommodate personal styles/workflows while maintaining cohesion within our group so we're working on similar scenes and better able to help one another work and grow together!

As always, please feel free to provide feedback / suggestions in this thread or by messaging me directly.

The votes were pretty clear this time around - without further ado, here are our options for Challenge 45!




artist: koryhubbell


artist: dirtyj




artist: unknown, see trademark


artist: unknown

This Challenge's "Painterly Prop" is a little more complex than usual; feel free to grab one particular item from the scene to complete! 

If you want to change up either concept a bit, as some people wanted, then feel free. Interpret these concepts to your liking.


Please read all the rules before starting.

When you are just starting out making a scene, it can seem complicated or imposing, so take the time to break it down. 

Think about how you can re-use assets, re-use textures, break it down as simple as possible and plan it out. A lot of people will break it down in their own way when they start out their challenge. Gather some reference images as well for different parts of the scene, maybe gather some refs and make it your own.

Take your time planning and blocking out, it will set you up for success later on.

Here are some specifics.
  • Try to post one critique for every post that you make. This will make for a better learning environment and help us all grow as artists.
  • You must use a game engine to present your work. Unreal Engine and CryEngine are very common engines that can be used but feel free to use any alternatives that you want. (Marmoset Toolbag is allowed as well)
  • You must try your best and finish as much as you can in the time frame provided.
  • Post what you are working on in this thread so that way it's a more centralized place for advice and critique. We don't need to have 1000 disjointed threads littering the forums. 
  • I would strongly encourage you to go and look at other games and see how they make their assets as well   as get concept art to give it your own feel, but it must stay very close to the concept, if not super close. 
Well, that's about it. If you think that any rules should be changed, or there should be new additions to the rules, please let us know.

All that matters is that you learn while being able to effectively critique others, as well as accept critiques on your own work. Remember to have fun. Cheers!

Replies

  • b0lly
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    b0lly polycounter lvl 3
    I'm planning to join in on the fun and try this challenge out - but its the first time I participate in a challenge. How do I go about participating? where do I post my final work, is it in this thread?
  • m4dcow
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    m4dcow interpolator
    b0lly said:
    I'm planning to join in on the fun and try this challenge out - but its the first time I participate in a challenge. How do I go about participating? where do I post my final work, is it in this thread?
    You post WIPs in here so you can get feedback, and you post your final here too. Also try to give feedback to others when they post.
  • b0lly
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    b0lly polycounter lvl 3
    m4dcow said:
    b0lly said:
    I'm planning to join in on the fun and try this challenge out - but its the first time I participate in a challenge. How do I go about participating? where do I post my final work, is it in this thread?
    You post WIPs in here so you can get feedback, and you post your final here too. Also try to give feedback to others when they post.
    Cool! thanks! 
  • DkuCook
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    DkuCook vertex

    I'll kick this off,

    I'll be attempting the hand painted environment. I'm Not sure yet which my target will be, but I feel UE4 will be my final choice at this point. Below is my breakdown for the scene my next job will be a 3D block out.

    and a colour coordinated version,

  • Shuaws
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    Shuaws polycounter lvl 5
    Heres a quick blockout so far im going to import the meshes to ue4, im also trying to decide if i should stick with the island look or maybe use the landscape tools, what are you guys gonna do, 



    @DkuCook
    I like your break down so far very detailed.
  • Jesse Walsh
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    Jesse Walsh polycounter lvl 7
    Shuaws said:
    Heres a quick blockout so far im going to import the meshes to ue4, im also trying to decide if i should stick with the island look or maybe use the landscape tools, what are you guys gonna do, 



    @DkuCook
    I like your break down so far very detailed.
    I would make it an island so you can do the fun waterfall to nowhere.
  • William3DArtist
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    William3DArtist polycounter lvl 8
    Oh its on! Excited!
  • William3DArtist
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    William3DArtist polycounter lvl 8
    Doing the two hard surfaces. Would love to add these in the portfolio. Just extremely simple blocking to understand Scale before I work on single pieces. Shooting to finish before the 2 months. I will focus primarily on the gun at first and move back and forward between the two when I come to a halt in the creative process. Using 3D Studio Max now. Would love to tackle all... but these two for now. We shall see how long it takes.
  • b0lly
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    b0lly polycounter lvl 3
    been working on a block-out of the flamer today! Going away this weekend so im 'onna have to pick it up on monday again. Looking forward to working some more on it :)

  • Melli
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    Melli polycounter lvl 4
    I haven't done anything 3D related for over a year now, and even before that I was only a beginner xD But I'd love to get into it again - will do some tutorials and then see how far I'll make it with this challenge ;) I love the idea, that the challenges stretch over 2 months now! It's really hard to squeeze in the extra effort when you've got a full-time job ;)
  • alex1111
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    alex1111 polycounter lvl 5
    Awesome seeing everyone get started! I only had 30 minutes available this morning, but I at least started blocking shapes in! I'll go back in to refine proportions and continue blocking everything out.


  • KurtR
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    KurtR polycounter lvl 6
    Always wanted to join one of these. I really liked both environment pieces, but I want to create an unreal piece for my portfolio, so the door is perfect for that. Started a simple rough blockout, will start on a more detailed blockout second. Will also comment on pieces as they progress some.



  • supersnakelx
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    supersnakelx polycounter lvl 4
    I'll try to make time for one of these concepts during the holidays.
  • amrit95
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    amrit95 polycounter lvl 2
    Hey guys! this is my first time participating in an environment/prop art challenge. I really like the gun concept since I'm trying to learn substance and I think it would be a good piece for practice. I started to block it out while I had some free time at work and I added some details here and there.
  • yashar98
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    yashar98 polycounter lvl 4
    Hello Everyone
    all works are Awesome
    at the first i highlighting the big parts and block-out with some simple shapes



  • musashidan
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    musashidan insane polycounter
    @yashar98 when building from a ref, you really need to study the proportions at this early stage. Firstly, the height. In relation to the scale-man-mesh, yours is 4 men high, the ref is 3. Yours also is a lot wider overall.

    The floor section in the ref comes out almost to(or flush) with the feet of the red highlighted section. The red section is wider and the bottom of the cutout is above head height; yours is at waist height.

    Your green section is sticking out too far and blocks the yellow section from view, which is very different from the ref. Also, look at the distance from the front of the green section to the front of the red/yellow sections(which are flush)

    Hope it helps. Good luck.


  • yashar98
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    yashar98 polycounter lvl 4
    @musashidan thanks a lot my friend for helping me to see the problems
    I'm trying to fix them
  • tehrobster2
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    tehrobster2 polycounter lvl 8
    I was not able to even start September and Octobers Challenge, Because my motherboard died on my previous laptop. But I just got another computer and ready to test it out on a new project. Here is my blockout of the doorway so far. 
  • KurtR
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    KurtR polycounter lvl 6
    Your green section is sticking out too far and blocks the yellow section from view, which is very different from the ref. Also, look at the distance from the front of the green section to the front of the red/yellow sections(which are flush)

    Correct me if I am wrong, musashidan, though I found that green section a little strange and I am not sure if you assessed it right or not. So I drew up a few perspective lines and it doesn't line up properly. On the left side it sticks on the outside of the support, but on the right side it seems to be on the inside. Currently not sure what to make of it. Seems like the artist might have drawn it freehand, without perspective lines, making the left and right side not fully equal.






  • KurtR
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    KurtR polycounter lvl 6
    Actually, the more I look at it, it seems like he has tilted the right side (looking at the drawing) on purpose more towards the left to show off more of the inside of that element.
  • yashar98
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    yashar98 polycounter lvl 4
    after changing the scale of parts

  • kyrzon
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    kyrzon polycounter lvl 2
    I'll go for both hard surfaces, I think 1 month for each one should be enough.

    william21984 your tank is a bit small
    be careful, you need another cilinder next to the tank, dont forget that piece ;). The cilinder on the back is attached to the weapon itself and the one on the front is part of the piece that you change when reloading the weapon.

    about the door, I've been breaking it out and seems like both sides are not parallel, maybe it's a perspective trick but the green part on one side is deeper than the other. I'm not sure how I will solve this next month but I think that the walls should be longer than the green part (like the right side of the concept)

    I've started doing the weapon, wanted to change from last month's challenge.
    This is the blockout so far, I need to add the curve of the bottom of the body and start modeling the pieces 




    One question: Do you know about the current tris count of first person weapons in AAA games?

  • APiotrW
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    APiotrW polycounter lvl 6
    @kyrzon
    Blockout looks good! From what I found out the polycount of most first person weapons nowadays is around 10k. 



    Started blocking out the painterly prop. Do you see any issues with proportions etc.?



  • DkuCook
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    DkuCook vertex
    Created a block out to get a scene of scale and overall shap. Used an artistic licence for the back of the house, to give the water a source.

  • Thatsimokid
    Finally decided to jump on board with one of these challenges :) Just started blocking out the major features. I realised after taking this WIP render that a few pieces aren't quite to scale / at the right angle but hey ho, and other Critque people can give would be great :D
  • Jesse Walsh
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    Jesse Walsh polycounter lvl 7
    I'm working on the painterly prop


  • musashidan
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    musashidan insane polycounter
    @KurtR that's a common issue for 3d artists when interpreting a 2D  concept. Often both artists-2/3d-will work together in production, or back and forth, for it to work in 3d.

    When doing personal work it's up to each of us to interpret it as we see it whilst staying true to the concept and make it work in 3d.
  • Jesse Moody
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    Jesse Moody polycounter lvl 13
    KurtR said:
    Actually, the more I look at it, it seems like he has tilted the right side (looking at the drawing) on purpose more towards the left to show off more of the inside of that element.

    @KurtR that's a common issue for 3d artists when interpreting a 2D  concept. Often both artists-2/3d-will work together in production, or back and forth, for it to work in 3d.

    When doing personal work it's up to each of us to interpret it as we see it whilst staying true to the concept and make it work in 3d.

    Yeah there will need to be some re-work done by the 3D Artist in this case to make these shapes work for how it is drawn. The pieces perspective is def off and each side does not align as it should. Pretty common thing when it comes to concepts. Unfortunate because when a concept is approved and your 3d piece doesn't quite "hit" the concept exactly some ADs get a bit picky but something you have to learn to deal with.
  • Jesse Walsh
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    Jesse Walsh polycounter lvl 7
    The painterly fruit cart prop has similar issues. It is drawn in an almost isometric perspective, but some lines that should be parallel are not. Additionally, the legs for the table in front of the cart meet the ground well below where the wheels meet the ground. This is the best I could manage lining an model up to the concept.

  • KurtR
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    KurtR polycounter lvl 6
    Thanks for feedback on perspective Musashidan and Jesse x2 :) Been breaking it down some more myself and trying to figure out how to go about it. New current blockout.

    Liking what I see in the thread so far, though I honestly haven't anything in particular to comment on just yet. All good starts.




  • Jesse Walsh
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    Jesse Walsh polycounter lvl 7
    testing my wood and metal in unreal.

  • musashidan
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    musashidan insane polycounter
    @Jesse Walsh  coming along well. It wouldn't hurt to add a few more edges to the red elements at the top of the piece, considering they're so important to the silhouette.  This isn't the '90s anymore.....we can always spare a few tris... :)
  • APiotrW
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    APiotrW polycounter lvl 6

    I´m not really sure how to place the top part. You can see that it´s not exactly in the middle. I´m not sure if it looks better when positioned like in the concept (I think it might confuse viewers who would interpret this as a flaw) or if it would look better exactly in the middle.
    What do you think?
  • Jesse Walsh
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    Jesse Walsh polycounter lvl 7
    I ran into the same problem and decided to center everything and make it symmetrical. When I positioned it exactly like the concept it looked like a mistake, especially when viewed from other angles.
  • Jesse Walsh
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    Jesse Walsh polycounter lvl 7
    @musashidan thanks for the feedback! I'll add some more geometry to the strange balls on top.
  • b0lly
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    b0lly polycounter lvl 3
    struggling a bit with the proportions of the gun, since the concept pics are not from definite side/front/top etc. but I think I'm getting there.
  • William3DArtist
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    William3DArtist polycounter lvl 8
    @kyrzon I totally did not see that piece. What the heck. Thanks so much buddy or buddett. The tube runs to that. Man im a derf. Such a big piece too. I think the color threw me off with the way it blends with the rest of the prop. This is way harder than it looks. Excited im tackling this though. Its been years since I came back to Polycount. Love you my Polycount brothers and sisters. Peace. 
  • xhi
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    xhi polycounter lvl 2
    So excited to start this challenge :) I'm going to try the painterly prop since it's a lot more than a prop and the environment is similar to other things I've done so I'm tired of it lol.
  • William3DArtist
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    William3DArtist polycounter lvl 8
    One question: Do you know about the current tris count of first person weapons in AAA games?

    According to Battlefield 2 Modern Combat. (I got this from Advance Environment modeling class. Pryce Jones. Still not that current but okay.)  

    Battlefield 2: Modern Combat (xbox360)
    polycounts were 8000 tris for some of the larger weapons like rocket launchers (models of the weapons that you see yourself holding from first person view). The most detailed vehichles were 15,000 tris.


    Don't know how I found this but I did. It has been about 3 years back so someone else might have better insight to current day weapons. I hope this helps somewhat.


  • Jesse Moody
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    Jesse Moody polycounter lvl 13
    Polycounts for weapons in current games is pretty high. It all depends on your camera, what the player will see, any parts move for animations,etc. 

    I have done a few that are in the 25k-40k range with all of the accessories but like I said it depends on the needs of the project.

    The key is don't be wasteful. Make round parts round. Let your hp and normal map carry as much as it can but make sure if it is part of the silhouette it is pushed and looks good.

  • Dustinmaertz
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    Dustinmaertz polycounter lvl 7
    Hey polycounters, quick note on the scale of master chief.

    Quote from the Halo Wiki.  " Master Chief stands about seven feet (2.13 m) tall and weighs 1,000 pounds (450 kg) in armor; without it, he stands six feet, seven inches (2 m) tall and weighs 287 pounds (130 kg)." 
  • homart
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    homart polycounter lvl 4
    Started working on the props : Feel free to comments and crits ! ;)
  • Jesse Walsh
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    Jesse Walsh polycounter lvl 7
    homart said:
    Started working on the props : Feel free to comments and crits ! ;)

    It looks very nice! I'm doing this one as well, so I've been staring at it a lot. 
    Here are my thoughts:
    The top half cylinder pink thing needs more geo for a good silhouette. I think the cart has legs on the other side to hold it up as well. The box of melons might need to be slightly taller.
    Also, I think you are missing one of the metal support pieces and have a beam going in the wrong direction. I'm basing this off of the line drawing concept though as it is a little muddled in the colored version.
  • xhi
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    xhi polycounter lvl 2
    Does anyone know what the word is on right pot? I've tried searching here where you draw the symbol. http://ce.linedict.com/dict.html#/cnen/home
  • kyrzon
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    kyrzon polycounter lvl 2
    Thank you for the info! Really helpful, i'll keep that in mind.

    @b0lly
    nice start! I've made some lines in your image with some things I see, 


    I'll make my model near 30k tris.
    The idea is to make it as detailed as possible (target AAA fps) and in a way that I can make some kind of loading animation, it will be funny to make this reload with all those tubes ^^

    I've already started with the high poly, it's hard to match the creases sharpness with this image but I'm happy with the reult so far.
     I'm using opensubdiv to avoid support edgeloops as much as possible.



  • xhi
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    xhi polycounter lvl 2
    My tiny work in progress :) 

  • MalloryW
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    MalloryW polycounter lvl 9
    We'll see how far it goes but I'll probably only have time on the weekends.
  • Jesse Walsh
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    Jesse Walsh polycounter lvl 7
    Small update: Worked on the strange top ball and cylinder things and did a little more lighting and material stuff in UE4 (I don't have much experience with game engines so it is slowww going in that area)


  • alex1111
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    alex1111 polycounter lvl 5
    Ok, here is my update! Have everything blocked out, still need to cut that hole on the tarp and move over that pole and ball to where the concept has it, along with one last pass on the proportions of the vases and other pieces. The wood material is just temp. I took some creative liberty with the placement of that light fixture on the right since I wasn't too happy with that large negative space that the poles framed.

    @Jesse Walsh  great progress so far! My only feedback at the moment is that the middle pole creates a tangent with the pole next to it on the right due to the shadows, what if you thickened one of the poles or move where it is placed?

    Great work from everyone so far

    Here's my update

  • b0lly
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    b0lly polycounter lvl 3
    Thanks @kyrzon! I'll implement the feedback on the model :)

    I'm trying out a new workflow, I won't be baking beveled edges from a high poly to a low poly, instead I'm gonna allow myself to use a higher polycount. I'll be using a normal map mostly for texture information like scratches, dents and holes. This will hopefully speed up the process of modelling, cutting out the baking-part which is often painful and time cosuming. Todays engines have no problem with handling high poly weapons, it has already been mentioned, its important not to be wasteful and have a smart topology but high polycounts are usually not a problem anymore in todays engines.

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