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How The F*#% Do I Model This? - Reply for help with specific shapes - (Post attempt before asking)

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  • Chaka
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    Chaka polycounter lvl 4
    Trying to learn topology, but can't find a shape quite like this for a reference. My messy attempt is in the background, but here's a quick shot on one side to see exactly what I'm trying to go for.

    Also, could the top of that side edge do with less vertices, while keeping it as smooth? Optimal amount of verts is a must for game props, so learning that too would be nice as well. 


  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina interpolator
    i don't really understand the problem
    is this for your lowpoly or do you want to model your highpoly ?
    to get rid of the shading issues on the side you need to either harden the edge between the top and the side, or you need to create a supportedge on the side, or bevel the edge

    or are you trying to connect all the pieces ?



  • Thanez
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    Thanez interpolator
    @Markmars M8 there is no way to discern what you're trying to achieve when it comes to the first 'error'. If you don't want the sharp edge, remove those edgeloops on either side of it.
    The second one is ez, just add an edgeloop below that pinchy edge.
  • Udjani
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    Udjani interpolator
    What would be your approach to model that shape? i did several of them, but just 2 didn't end up looking like garbage, and one of them has quite a messy topology.


    Edit: Page 154 has something similar to that, don't know why i was overcomplicating this thing, life is hard when you are retarded. 
  • Filip5
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    Filip5 polycounter lvl 9
    Hey guys, I wonder whats the best way to model hull of a ship. I did some inner parts to help me achieve the shape, but I am not really sure how to do this. I tried splines but it didn't go well, nor extruding the plane , so I got stuck on this.

  • gfelton
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    gfelton polycounter lvl 6
    dchani said:
    snip

    ure being like wayy too hard on yourself, i think what uve got is fine and you also have to consider that this piece is really small and the shape just has to be right, depending on the final res of the textures youll be baking to it might not even be possible to see smoothing errors, and even then, this piece rlly doesn't take up that much screen space so i think ure g <3
  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    I'm just trying to understand.
    How this detail is made and it seems like it's individual elements.

    Soon I will publish the progress.

    Thanks all for the answers!
  • Filip5
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    Filip5 polycounter lvl 9
    Filip5 said:
    Hey guys, I wonder whats the best way to model hull of a ship. I did some inner parts to help me achieve the shape, but I am not really sure how to do this. I tried splines but it didn't go well, nor extruding the plane , so I got stuck on this.


    Alright, tried to model it again, but its ugly as hell...


  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 6
    Hey guys, I'm following a grenade tutorial and have come across a problem in a hard edge when subdividing:




    I'm using 3DS Max with the quad chamfer modifier in order to get the hard edge. If I decrease the value, the black pinch goes away but then I am left with a soft edge. This is the non-turbo-smoothed/non-chamfered version:


    I tried having an edge loop go from the circled vertice out to the top-right of the picture but that gives me a hard edge in that direction shown here:


    Is there any way to avoid a pinch without smoothing out the high poly in Zbrush? Why am I getting the pinch in this case? Should the supporting edge pull in the opposite direction as a counter-balance? IE if the bottom edge is pulling South East, the top edge should be angled North West? I know 5+ edges coming out of a vert should also be avoided. Any help would be very much appreciated guys.

  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    You can do so use this method.


    If something is wrong, correct it please.
    Good luck!

  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 6
    Markmars said:
    You can do so use this method.


    If something is wrong, correct it please.
    Good luck!

    Thanks for that. It definitely is better but because the edge closing to the camera is a smooth curve I get a slight hardened edge going to the left. It is definitely better. I think using the quad chamfer on a section like this is too heavy and just too general. Anyway to maintain the curve and eliminate the slight hard edge?
  • fatihG_
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    fatihG_ polycounter lvl 14
    Hey guys, I'm following a grenade tutorial and have come across a problem in a hard edge when subdividing:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/rh/i6qadaqcodm8.jpg


    I'm using 3DS Max with the quad chamfer modifier in order to get the hard edge. If I decrease the value, the black pinch goes away but then I am left with a soft edge. This is the non-turbo-smoothed/non-chamfered version:https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/65/709cl5b1qm5e.jpg


    I tried having an edge loop go from the circled vertice out to the top-right of the picture but that gives me a hard edge in that direction shown here:https://us.v-cdn.net/5021068/uploads/editor/re/hnryrw9zbwdq.jpg


    Is there any way to avoid a pinch without smoothing out the high poly in Zbrush? Why am I getting the pinch in this case? Should the supporting edge pull in the opposite direction as a counter-balance? IE if the bottom edge is pulling South East, the top edge should be angled North West? I know 5+ edges coming out of a vert should also be avoided. Any help would be very much appreciated guys.

    Have you seen Earthquakes post?

    http://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2594408/#Comment_2594408
    Should work fine for your needs.


  • Holy_Polygon
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    Holy_Polygon vertex
    How to create this surface, in maya ?   
  • Bek
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    Bek interpolator
    @Holy_Polygon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR6Gt2qRPRM tutorial is in modo but the main idea is package agnostic.
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 6
    All smoothed out guys :D Thanks Markmars



    Does the topology look ok to you guys?
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    @guitarguy00 If it works then its ok.
  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    guitarguy00
    If you have any questions
    ask
    I will try to solve them.
    good luck!


  • snakedogman
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    snakedogman polycounter lvl 8
    Markmars said:
    I'm just trying to understand.
    How this detail is made and it seems like it's individual elements.

    Soon I will publish the progress.

    Thanks all for the answers!
    Perhaps this can help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfa1AD9xdIs

  • ivanthestupid
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    Hello gentlemen. I have a problem i cannot solve for a very long time already. The point is when you do chamfer between perpendicular faces 3ds Max is keeping all edges parrallel, but when it comes to an angle it starts to bring those edges together. Is there any way to keep them parallel? Thank you in advance!

  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    just use the tool scale
    wait a little.
     soon I'll do a mini-tutorial

    1 Get the error.
    Do as you did before.

    2 Turn on the mode edge constraint
    Choose a chain of edges.

    3 Use the tool scale
    axis y
    4 Do the same as you did before.
    With all the rest.

    5 Done!
  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    snakedogman
    Thanks for the valuable lesson! :)
    I'll see!
    Soon I will publish the progress. :p
  • ivanthestupid
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    Many thanks Markmars! I really appreciate your help on that. Now I am using the combination of making planar and snapping, instead of simple scaling, to perform the same action, but the idea is all yours!

    However, I guess parallel-edge chamfering is much more suitable for dozens of situations, so they coulda implement it already. ☺️
  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    ivanthestupid
    I am glad that this helps!
    Good luck!
  • darkminaz
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    darkminaz vertex
    Took the last 2 days to try out multiple models that were shown here and on pinterest
    So i wanted to say thanks for all the great tips, had a blast trying out all the different Models
    If anyone wants some of them feel free, it's only fair to give back a bit.
    model
  • Axi5
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    Axi5 interpolator
    Many thanks Markmars! I really appreciate your help on that. Now I am using the combination of making planar and snapping, instead of simple scaling, to perform the same action, but the idea is all yours!

    However, I guess parallel-edge chamfering is much more suitable for dozens of situations, so they coulda implement it already. ☺️
    It doesn't help you as a max user but Maya has a force parallel setting in its bevel ui. It might be worth checking that out if you have access to it to see if that does what you want. 
  • akilesKRSK
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    akilesKRSK polycounter lvl 2
    Hi Guys, how  clean topology should be in this area, I'm trying to keep quads all the time. 



  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    @akilesKRSK Every topo is fine if subd result looks good.
  • Eric Chadwick
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    You could try the 5-to-3 tip in the image at the bottom here
    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Subd#Tips_.26_Tricks
  • fatihG_
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    fatihG_ polycounter lvl 14
    @akilesKRSK

    Any particular reason you are trying to keep it a quad mesh?

    Dont be afraid to use Ngons, if you understand how they subdivide. (If you don't you can always quickly do a smoothed preview and inspect the wireframe.)

    If you are worried about wobbly shading because of the Ngons, you can always add another edgeloop to use as a 'stress absorption buffer' for lack of better words.



    Example, notice how the green edge loops still maintain their shape when sub divided.
    The extra 'Buffer' edgeloops is where all the distortion and what not is happening now instead. So you basically offset the 'stress' of the uneven geo by and edgeloop.

    In the example above I tried to make the 'buffer' area as dirty as possible just to illustrate my point.
    Also this quick and dirty trick most of the time will only work with flat surfaces.
    Which should work fine with your 'problem' areas as they are flat as well.
  • akilesKRSK
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    akilesKRSK polycounter lvl 2
    fatihG_ said:
    @akilesKRSK

    Any particular reason you are trying to keep it a quad mesh?

    Dont be afraid to use Ngons, if you understand how they subdivide. (If you don't you can always quickly do a smoothed preview and inspect the wireframe.)

    If you are worried about wobbly shading because of the Ngons, you can always add another edgeloop to use as a 'stress absorption buffer' for lack of better words.



    Example, notice how the green edge loops still maintain their shape when sub divided.
    The extra 'Buffer' edgeloops is where all the distortion and what not is happening now instead. So you basically offset the 'stress' of the uneven geo by and edgeloop.

    In the example above I tried to make the 'buffer' area as dirty as possible just to illustrate my point.
    Also this quick and dirty trick most of the time will only work with flat surfaces.
    Which should work fine with your 'problem' areas as they are flat as well.
    Thx. Great tip!. The only reason I want to have a clear topo because I want to include it in my portfolio. 
  • fatihG_
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    fatihG_ polycounter lvl 14
    Do what Eric said then, should wok fine for your needs. =]



  • akilesKRSK
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    akilesKRSK polycounter lvl 2
    Thx guys. Appreciate it! 
  • Justo
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    Justo polycounter
    @perna
    Maybe I'm forgetting something obvious, but how do you deal with small areas where control loops may pinch or go crazy? I've seen you use a vertex weld mod on top which sometimes does the job, but other times that won't do it; or perhaps it'll start welding unwanted stuff.
  • Thanez
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    Thanez interpolator
    @Justo Pics b4 help

    @Filip5 You should start with the large shapes, and after nailing those down do large details, then smaller details. For fixing tho if you hide every other rib, and use the remaining ribs to shape the hull you should have an easier time getting the flow of it correct. Turbosmooth the hull 1x, then unhide the hidden ribs and size them appropriately. 
  • Justo
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    Justo polycounter
    I wasn't really asking about any shape in particular Thanez, just more about per's workflow. But sure, why not, here's an example. Keep in mind my end goal isn't to achieve smooth bevels and rounded corners, but how far we can get to those via automatic means. 


  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    perna said:
     I'm not sure which apps other than 3ds Max automatically make control loops for you, but I'm sure they'll all have such functionality soon.



    Not a Max user. But I was wondering what is that tool called?
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    Not a Max user. But I was wondering what is that tool called?

    Quadchamfer :)
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    @perna That looks cool. Thank you for the reply. Lately I have been using Maya's creases + GoZ to import stuff into Zbrush. Using this method you can have really clean geo on the base mesh aswel and later on you can use that same mesh as the lowpoly so there is no much retopo involved.



  • Revel
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    Revel interpolator
    @perna - I'm wondering how did you tackle a mesh with varying detail size, for example a rifling on a barrel of a gun, it needs a tiny bit of chamfer amount otherwise it'll overlap eachother, but on the other hand, you need a larger chamfer width on different area of that barrel, on the same mesh, with a bigger detail, smoother transition?

    What I did normally was just cut in support loop to the smaller detail area and put all of them into one smoothing group so it won't affected by the chamfer mod, but it required me to cut in the support loop like an era before quadchamfer came in.. :\
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    @Revel I was wondering same exact thing.
  • Justo
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    Justo polycounter
    Exactly, this is the kind of problem I was trying, and maybe failed, to illustrate in my previous image. The auto chamfer way works great for general, big shapes; but most of the times smaller details won't smooth correctly. For instance, if you compare the left and right shapes, AFAIK you won't be able to get 1 and 2, simultaneosly, to look like its left counterpart by only applying the automatic chamfer. You say "you have to leave enough room", and I'd be interested in hearing your workarounds, or general no-nos from you on which type of areas give you, personally, trouble when using this method.



     I mean, sometimes just making the model differently is not a solution: the client wants it exactly like that. And what I end up doing is what Revel said: just DIY and apply one SG to that area so that the chamfer stays the f out from that.
  • rage288
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    rage288 polycounter lvl 7
    Revel said:
    @perna - I'm wondering how did you tackle a mesh with varying detail size, for example a rifling on a barrel of a gun, it needs a tiny bit of chamfer amount otherwise it'll overlap eachother, but on the other hand, you need a larger chamfer width on different area of that barrel, on the same mesh, with a bigger detail, smoother transition?

    What I did normally was just cut in support loop to the smaller detail area and put all of them into one smoothing group so it won't affected by the chamfer mod, but it required me to cut in the support loop like an era before quadchamfer came in.. :\

     I do the exact same thing, when quadchamfer shows limitations I use traditional tools all in one SG
  • Markmars
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    Markmars triangle
    Hey there!
    Quick question.

    1How do you make such details(high poly)
    Using turbosmooth.
    I only know one way
    (hard edge)
    2Did I do it right or not?
    3Do you use this method or not?
    4How to do it differently?
    Thank you very much in advance!
  • cromadbomber
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    cromadbomber polycounter lvl 10
    @Markmars That pretty much looks spot on. There is no right or wrong way. The only thing which matters is the end result.
  • Bumblebee
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    Bumblebee polycounter lvl 3
    what you guys should always do is maybe try blocking the shape out with simple geo, and when you have the shapes, just use smooth by smoothing groups to get extra polygons for extra detail.
  • technicienludo
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    technicienludo polycounter lvl 2
    Hello, I'm trying to mesh, and I'm sure it's not good. can you tell me if the mesh is correct. If it is not the case, would have a possibility to show me by image. thank you.

  • Pedro Amorim
  • technicienludo
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    technicienludo polycounter lvl 2
    thank you. I did not think about this mesh there
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