Monitor Questions

Mr.Moose · Nov 2017

Hi all,

Looking for some advice in regards to upgrading my main monitor. Going for a 27" 2k monitor, I have two that I like so far.
The specs are almost identical, but:
One is AH-IPS which apparently has a higher color accuracy?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6ZP3KT7145&ignorebbr=1

The other is just a standard IPS but has a higher color range, though im not sure how accurate these measurements are (IE Not using adobe standard so not really sure how they compare to other companies, but between just asus its 1bil vs 16mil?)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236814&ignorebbr=1

Just looking for some advice. Getting back into art slowly and realizing how frustrated I get with not enough space, so tis' the season!

EarthQuake · Nov 2017

These both look to be 8-bit (as apposed to 6-bit or 10-bit) 100% sRGB displays. In other words they support the typical color gamut and should both be very good choices, especially if calibrated.

My only hesitation is that ASUS monitors have terrible stands (very little adjustment). If that is something you care about, you can usually find a Dell Ultrasharps with the same panel and a better stand for a bit more money.

Tekoppar · Nov 2017

They're both 8-bit, IPS-Panel (AH-IPS is just LG's newest IPS technology), they both support sRBG 100%, use W-LED backlight and like EQ said they both only support backward-forward tilt and due to that I wouldn't recommend buying neither as I like to at least be able to raise-lower the monitor at minimum.

If you're looking for monitor speccs I would recommend this website; https://www.displayspecifications.com/en

thomasp · Nov 2017

Eizo and NEC (both the mid-range) are the two brands i trust in when it comes to colors.

Mr.Moose · Nov 2017

EarthQuake said:

These both look to be 8-bit (as apposed to 6-bit or 10-bit) 100% sRGB displays. In other words they support the typical color gamut and should both be very good choices, especially if calibrated.

My only hesitation is that ASUS monitors have terrible stands (very little adjustment). If that is something you care about, you can usually find a Dell Ultrasharps with the same panel and a better stand for a bit more money.

You're right on the stand adjustment. I already own two of the cheaper Asus monitors from awhile back when I grabbed them for cheap. Investigating also looks like they're annoying and expensive to mount to an arm. ($31 just for the adapter, Sheesh.)
I'll look around for something in the price range that offers the same but with adjustments. The Dells on newegg are about $200 more, but I'll checkout pcpartpicker when I have more time.

Tekoppar said:

They're both 8-bit, IPS-Panel (AH-IPS is just LG's newest IPS technology), they both support sRBG 100%, use W-LED backlight and like EQ said they both only support backward-forward tilt and due to that I wouldn't recommend buying neither as I like to at least be able to raise-lower the monitor at minimum.

If you're looking for monitor speccs I would recommend this website; https://www.displayspecifications.com/en

That websites dope, thank you. I'll definitely bookmark and use that

thomasp said:

Eizo and NEC (both the mid-range) are the two brands i trust in when it comes to colors.

I don't think there's one in my price range, NEC has one 27" 1080p , but the 27" 2k monitors are a good $200 above the rest. Eizo at 27" is just.. oh god.
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Looking at the BenQ GW2765HT now, It looks like it has the sames specs, cheaper, and a lot more ergonomics adjustments. Even though my side monitors won't be perfectly ergo I think this is a much better choice vs the original idea. (But damn that sleek bezel on the asus is nice looking)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824014383&cm_re=BenQ_GW2765HT_27"-_-24-014-383-_-Product

According to the site Tekoppar shared, the only difference between the benq and the Asus VZ27AQ
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236814&ignorebbr=1

Is that the Asus has about 5% more display area, and a higher refresh rate. Though im not sure that Refresh rate really matters in this case.
Benq on the other hand has a lot of the ergo adjustments, cheaper by $100. And possibly better color, Not sure how big of an impact 8bit+frc makes.

I might hop on the Benq, and just have an awful three unmatching monitor setup. Going to keep looking, any more recommendations or advice is appreciated!

thomasp · Nov 2017

point taken! i just checked my email and i had picked up my eizo 2736 for about 650 (euros). granted this was a few years back but the price compared well with the rest of the pack. haven't checked since.

all i can say is that it's colors look way more natural than on any other screen i have on the desk. (LG flatron, Dell Ultrasharp and a Macbook Pro). i use the others to preview the worst-case scenarios.

Tekoppar · Nov 2017

Xbit+FRC means that the display isn't capable of actually displaying the full range of colors, 8 bit means each channel has 256 shades of color, while with 10 bit each channel has 1024 shades of color. So FRC is used to make the display switch between two 8 bit values for the pixel, the time depends on what color a pixel is meant to be. So if you wanted to show a 10 bit image and the pixel had a shade of 101 the pixel would change between a shade of 100 75% of the frame and 104 25% of the frame and you would see a shade of 101. With true 10 bit the display would just show a shade of 101 at that pixel.

My current BenQ SW2700PT has 8bit+FRC and I cannot see the FRC actually take place.

EarthQuake · Nov 2017

8bit+FRC would only apply if you're feeding the display 10 bit color, which only certain GPUs and software support anyway.

6bit+FRC can show a small amount of noise. This is typically what is used with cheaper e-IPS panels. I have one of which I use as secondary display and it's fine actually.

As far as colors go, outside of super high end NEC and Eizo displays which have calibration hardware built into them, all monitors should be calibrated with an external device. So if one brand or model has better colors out of the box it's not generally relevant, as long as the display supports a reasonably wide gamut, it should calibrate well. Colors tend to shift over time, so monitors need to be calibrated every so often (every year or so is generally often enough), so investing in a Spyder or similar color calibrator is a good idea.

Tekoppar · Nov 2017

Both Nvidia and AMD support 10bit color with direct X exclusive fullscreen, you can test it if you follow this little guide http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172128

For game support on PC I know that Shadow Warrior 2, Obduction, Resident Evil 7 and Hitman should support 10 bit in exclusive fullscreen.

I would recommend a i1 Display Pro over a Spyder unless money is tight due to the higher average delta e error.

Prime8 · Nov 2017

Have a look at the Dell Ultrasharp series.
Dell has a good quality and is not too expensive, sure you can find cheaper displays too.

Tekoppar said:

Both Nvidia and AMD support 10bit color with direct X exclusive fullscreen, you can test it if you follow this little guide http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172128

For game support on PC I know that Shadow Warrior 2, Obduction, Resident Evil 7 and Hitman should support 10 bit in exclusive fullscreen.

I would recommend a i1 Display Pro over a Spyder unless money is tight due to the higher average delta e error.

Sure for gaming, but for content creation you would need a complete 10-bit pipeline to benefit from it, but content is created in 8-bit therefore I don't see any benefit for it.
Even in your example the content does not use 10bit textures for assets, the engine "just" outputs 10bit results instead of 8bit.
Not sure if Windows still has issue when using 10bit mode to correctly display 8-bit content.

Mr.Moose · Nov 2017

EarthQuake said:

8bit+FRC would only apply if you're feeding the display 10 bit color, which only certain GPUs and software support anyway.

6bit+FRC can show a small amount of noise. This is typically what is used with cheaper e-IPS panels. I have one of which I use as secondary display and it's fine actually.

As far as colors go, outside of super high end NEC and Eizo displays which have calibration hardware built into them, all monitors should be calibrated with an external device. So if one brand or model has better colors out of the box it's not generally relevant, as long as the display supports a reasonably wide gamut, it should calibrate well. Colors tend to shift over time, so monitors need to be calibrated every so often (every year or so is generally often enough), so investing in a Spyder or similar color calibrator is a good idea.

I'll look into that for sure, Looks really useful. I've never done anything like that, and maybe there an artist in the area I can borrow it from. Edit: Realized you said one time / year. Will look into investing!

Prime8 said:

Have a look at the Dell Ultrasharp series.
Dell has a good quality and is not too expensive, sure you can find cheaper displays too.

Tekoppar said:

Both Nvidia and AMD support 10bit color with direct X exclusive fullscreen, you can test it if you follow this little guide http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172128

For game support on PC I know that Shadow Warrior 2, Obduction, Resident Evil 7 and Hitman should support 10 bit in exclusive fullscreen.

I would recommend a i1 Display Pro over a Spyder unless money is tight due to the higher average delta e error.

Sure for gaming, but for content creation you would need a complete 10-bit pipeline to benefit from it, but content is created in 8-bit therefore I don't see any benefit for it.
Even in your example the content does not use 10bit textures for assets, the engine "just" outputs 10bit results instead of 8bit.
Not sure if Windows still has issue when using 10bit mode to correctly display 8-bit content.

I was looking at the ultrasharps and dell monitors since Earthquake had recommended them(Dell), but after purchasing a new desk I am trying to be a little tight on the monitor. The benq I looked at was similar to some of the dell ultrasharps but $300 cheaper. I would love to invest in a 10bit in the future, but they are out of my budget right now $:\$ I think I can get by if I color calibrate and get an 8bit or 8bit frc, I'm not a professional dev currently, just getting back after a long injury (Still fighting) so just looking to make myself more comfortable as I do! But I appreciate all this advice!

Prime8 · Nov 2017

forget about 8bit frc, as Earthquake wrote already, you need to feed 10bit as well, it is just a solution to create more gradation by dithering

Mr.Moose · Nov 2017

Do you mean forget it as in whether or not its frc doesn't matter or to avoid frc?

Tekoppar · Nov 2017

I think he means that you shouldn't care about whether or not the monitor has 8bit FRC as to utilise it in your workflow you need Nvidias or AMDs pro cards to get full support for 10bit.

Mr.Moose · Nov 2017

Went with the BenQ one, and the color is popping! Feels great to work on so far

Now I wonder how it will look calibrated... Q.Q

gnoop · Nov 2017

Calibrated they are usually less popping, more humble having more nuances in dark, light and intensely saturated areas , sometimes less visually appealing and contrast . Don't be confused by that , accurate colors are not usually most vibrant ones.
The purpose of calibration is not to please your eyes but rather having a standard color reproduction. With too popping colors on your screen you would always desaturate them subconsciously .

As of 8 bit and FRC I hardly see any difference even with 6 bit + FRC vs true 8 bit

Easton · Nov 2017

Mr.Moose said:

Hi all,

Looking for some advice in regards to upgrading my main monitor. Going for a 27" 2k monitor, I have two that I like so far.
The specs are almost identical, but:
One is AH-IPS which apparently has a higher color accuracy?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6ZP3KT7145&ignorebbr=1

The other is just a standard IPS but has a higher color range, though im not sure how accurate these measurements are (IE Not using adobe standard so not really sure how they compare to other companies, but between just asus its 1bil vs 16mil?)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236814&ignorebbr=1

Just looking for some advice. Getting back into art slowly and realizing how frustrated I get with not enough space, so tis' the season!

Samsung has some 4k QLED 27" for 30% off now, or yesterday....

Monitor Questions

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