Recommendations for a PC for Workstation?

gene098 · Sep 2017

Hey guys,

In order of importance, m looking to run...

First

- Photoshop large documents
-Lots of tabs open at same time in Firefox and Chrome
------------
Second

Music (Currently my PC loads VSTs quite slowly)

- FL Studio
- Kontakt
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Third

- ZBrush
- Maya ( Mainly for the general UI for sculpt, retopo, rigging , UVs, etc, very little rendering, Im mainly looking to render real time in UE4)
- Substance Painter and Designer
- Marmoset Toolbag
- MARI
- Unreal Engine 4 (For real-time cinematic shorts)
- 3DS Max (Just a little, very little rendering)
--------------
Fourth(Negligible/Very rare uses)

Any Recent Games

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Im comparing my own build to this pretty great Most Bang for Buck Prebuilt by Microcenter called Powerspec
Its the model G221

They advertised for 850, but right now its...

TOTAL 899 (w/out tax)

Heres their specs

http://www.powerspec.com/systems/system_specs.phtml?selection=G221
-------------------

Im looking to build...

- Ryzen 5 1600 - 200$ (W/Wraith Cooler)

- GTX 1050ti-145$

- Crucial 16GB Single DDR4 2400 MT/s (PC4-19200) DR x8 Unbuffered DIMM 288-Pin Memory - CT16G4DFD824A =$138

- 960 EVO series Samsung SSD= 117.60 (Looking to use my external HDDs as storage)

- ASUS Prime B350-Plus AMD Ryzen AM4 DDR4 HDMI DVI VGA M.2 USB 3.1 ATX B350 Motherboard = 90$

(Also open to recommendation on a MOBO with 4 or more USB 3.0 ports, in this MOBO its only 2 USB 3.0)

- Power) Corsair cx650m = 70$

- 50$ for case
Open to recommendations!
-Removable dust filter
-No other dust holes
-Great circulation for cool and quiet
--------------------------------------------

810 TOTAL

After 8.875% tax
881.84$

Nerdicon3000 · Sep 2017

I'm not 100% on what your asking.. Do you have a budget? Are you upgrading? My recommendation would be to upgrade your graphics card first. A GTX 1070 would be my bare minimum for proper real-time rendering. Programs like Toolbag, substance painter, UE4 and designer are very GPU intensive. Your CPU has a lot of OC headroom if you want to go that rout, and most of the programs you have listed are not optimized for multiple cores so an upgrade will only mean a small performance increase. RAM would be my second upgrade as it is relatively cheap and another 16gig would really give you some extra headroom for Photoshop.

gene098 · Sep 2017

Nerdicon3000 said:

I'm not 100% on what your asking.. Do you have a budget? Are you upgrading? My recommendation would be to upgrade your graphics card first. A GTX 1070 would be my bare minimum for proper real-time rendering. Programs like Toolbag, substance painter, UE4 and designer are very GPU intensive. Your CPU has a lot of OC headroom if you want to go that rout, and most of the programs you have listed are not optimized for multiple cores so an upgrade will only mean a small performance increase. RAM would be my second upgrade as it is relatively cheap and another 16gig would really give you some extra headroom for Photoshop.

Hi,

My budget was supposed to be 700 but just adding a decent GPU at 1050ti it is already 100$ above.
Would "Toolbag, substance painter, UE4 and designer are very GPU intensive"
be able to run properly on a 1050 ti? Like when trying to see how a model looks in different lighting in realtime in Marmoset and MARI/

For the most important program being PS, Ive heard that PS and Maya both utilize multi threads?

RAM would be something I would also like to add in down the line, but for now cant do due to being over budget already

igi · Sep 2017

UE4, toolbag, Maya will be perfectly fine with a 1050ti. But large Subsance Painter files can be a problem it's very vram intensive, but you'll need a farly large SP file in order to fill 4gb vram.

gene098 · Sep 2017

igi said:

UE4, toolbag, Maya will be perfectly fine with a 1050ti. But large Subsance Painter files can be a problem it's very vram intensive, but you'll need a farly large SP file in order to fill 4gb vram.

Ive heard that PS also utilizes the GPU, even more so than Maya
is that true?

For SP, if im simply texturing a head in high realism like Nathan Drake in UC4
would that be considered a large SP file?

gene098 · Sep 2017

PS

Also open to recommendation on a MOBO with 4 or more USB 3.0 ports, in this MOBO its only 2 USB 3.0

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

http://polycount.com/discussion/173350/upgrading-or-building-a-new-pc-this-is-the-thread-for-you/p1

igi · Sep 2017

gene098 said:

igi said:

UE4, toolbag, Maya will be perfectly fine with a 1050ti. But large Subsance Painter files can be a problem it's very vram intensive, but you'll need a farly large SP file in order to fill 4gb vram.

Ive heard that PS also utilizes the GPU, even more so than Maya
is that true?

For SP, if im simply texturing a head in high realism like Nathan Drake in UC4
would that be considered a large SP file?

1050ti will be fine with latest version of PS and Maya.

You wouldn't 'simply' texture a head model with UC4 fidelity. But if it's the case then yes, a project like this would have tons of layers in it, you may need a higher end cards then 1050ti in some cases like when UE4, Toolbag etc. are open along with a very hefty SP file.

gene098 · Sep 2017

Thanks igi,

The problem is my original budget was ~700 but im already 100 over budget,
is there anything i can do to cut down on the budget in order to make way for a better GPU?

PS what GPU would you recommend to handle the said works?

gene098 · Sep 2017

PolyHertz said:

http://polycount.com/discussion/173350/upgrading-or-building-a-new-pc-this-is-the-thread-for-you/p1

Thank you Polyhertz,

i actually read that post before hashing out my build.

Its just after hashing out the details I wanted to get the polycounters opinions on it to see if I could optimize it even more
and if the prebuilt might instead be more worth it than what I have...

gene098 · Sep 2017

Any ideas guys?

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

The build they're selling is a good deal, and even buying the parts in bulk their profit margin probably isn't that large.

Here's a breakdown of component prices for the prebuilt (not exact, but should be close enough): https://pcpartpicker.com/list/23Lz4C

SonicBlue · Sep 2017

You have not specified which build you currently have, maybe it's upgradeable.

gene098 · Sep 2017

PolyHertz said:

The build they're selling is a good deal, and even buying the parts in bulk their profit margin probably isn't that large.

Here's a breakdown of component prices for the prebuilt (not exact, but should be close enough): https://pcpartpicker.com/list/23Lz4C

Thanks Poly hertz,

the only thing i was concerned about was that they dont list the type of ssd and ram
like the specifics of the brand and speeds

so i dont think its a samsung evo, and possible more like a sandisk

and the only other pet peeve was that for my needs, for the same price the ryzen 5 1600 was a much better cpu..

so i was just wondering if you guys thought it would be a good trade off

basically i lose a 1060 for a 1050ti and a 1tb hdd
, in exchange i get
ryzen5 1600

- Samsung 960 SSD,

- Better Case?

- 1 stick of 16g ram vs 2x8gb ram

- Better motherboard?

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

You shouldn't go for 1 stick of 16GB of ram (2x8GB is better in this case), as that will lower the effective speed. The chipset your going for (in either case) uses dual channel memory, read up more on that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-channel_memory_architecture

Also, keep in mind that the next generation of Intel CPUs is supposedly getting released in less then 3 weeks, and will have 6 core CPUs with comparable or better performance then the Ryzen 1600.

gene098 · Sep 2017

PolyHertz said:

You shouldn't go for 1 stick of 16GB of ram (2x8GB is better in this case), as that will lower the effective speed. The chipset your going for (in either case) uses dual channel memory, read up more on that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-channel_memory_architecture

Also, keep in mind that the next generation of Intel CPUs is supposedly getting released in less then 3 weeks, and will have 6 core CPUs with comparable or better performance then the Ryzen 1600.

Hey Poly thanks for the info,

So a friend recommended me this build instead and yea he also said to do 2x8gb and up it to 3000 DDR4

The only question would be, he recommended me to downsize on the MOBO, PSU, and the Case in order to get a Ryzen 7 1700

So with what you said about intel releasing a new set, would it be comparable in price- performance ratio to the Ryzen 7 1700?

Heres what he gave me..

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZZQX8K
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ZZQX8K/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor ($289.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock - AB350M Pro4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($74.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: *GeIL - EVO POTENZA 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($127.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 960 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($117.60 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Mini Video Card ($144.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design - Core 1000 USB 3.0 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: *Corsair - CXM (2015) 450W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($26.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $822.04
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-18 16:38 EDT-0400

gene098 · Sep 2017

Apparently the cost quivalent to the Ryzen 7 1700
Is the i7 8700 for 327, Ryzen 7 1700 for 300
https://blogs-images.forbes.com/antonyleather/files/2017/09/8th-gen-2.jpg?width=960
------------------

But performance wise, the 8700k is only slightly better than the ryzen 5 1600?

And rm this is the 8700k, while the 8700 is less than that

Which means that the 1700 must be neck to neck or better than the 8700

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/09/3e27e339-03aa-4a29-8b5e-263f428c3d6b.jpg

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

The build he suggested is fine. Using a cheaper case and motherboard is ok, though I personally wouldn't cheap out on the power supply (had enough bad experiences with them over the years to feel it's not worth the short-term savings).

As for Intel, their cores are faster then Ryzens, but they have fewer cores. The 8700 should crush any current AMD CPU at single-threaded tasks (same with the 7700), but for multithreaded tasks of course they will be slower since Ryzen 1700/1800 have more cores. Based on what you wrote in your first post, per-thread performance will be of greater benefit to you then having more but slower cores.

gene098 · Sep 2017

PolyHertz said:

The build he suggested is fine. Using a cheaper case and motherboard is ok, though I personally wouldn't cheap out on the power supply (had enough bad experiences with them over the years to feel it's not worth the short-term savings).

As for Intel, their cores are faster then Ryzens, but they have fewer cores. The 8700 should crush any current AMD CPU at single-threaded tasks (same with the 7700), but for multithreaded tasks of course they will be slower since Ryzen 1700/1800 have more cores. Based on what you wrote in your first post, per-thread performance will be of greater benefit to you then having more but slower cores.

Hi Poly,

For the build thus far that he gave, what powersupply would you recommend?

Even the prebuilt system only had a 500w
while he recommended the 450w,
is 50 w really a big difference?
-----------

Also do you happen to know if a gtx 1050 ti mini affects performance?

Like compared to the other the GTX 1050 TI
with 2 fans, superclocked, etc
but not really sure if they all mean anything in terms of overall performance and quietness?
-----------------
Im thinking of switching out his case for this one...

Because it has fan speed control and removable dust filters

What do you think?
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16811854052

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

With a prebuilt you can kind of shrug off the PC having a lousy PSU since you really don't have many options there, and because the warranty will take care of your entire PC. On the other hand, if you built the PC yourself and your system gets fried you have to deal with a ton of warranties, plus you have all the options in the world of which to buy. Having a junk PSU in a prebuilt is understandable, having one in a custom build is not.

As for which you should buy, you should look for one that is at least Gold rated, and has extremely consistent positive reviews. Personally, I would recommend the "EVGA G2 220-G2-0650-Y1". Its efficient, has plenty of headroom for any expansions/upgrades you may do on your PC later, and has nearly universally positive reviews. It's $100, so much more expensive then the one you were looking at, but you get what you pay for.

For the 1050Ti, there shouldn't be any performance difference unless the card is overclocked (more fans = better for overclocking). The factory overclocked cards (ex: EVGA SuperClocked editions) run a little faster, but its mostly just for advertising and the actual performance difference is negligible. The extra fans can however result in noticeably lower noise levels since they don't have to spin as fast.

For the case, it doesn't support optical drives (if that's important to you), the ventilation seems rather poor, and it costs more. It is stylish though.

gene098 · Sep 2017

PolyHertz said:

With a prebuilt you can kind of shrug off the PC having a lousy PSU since you really don't have many options there, and because the warranty will take care of your entire PC. On the other hand, if you built the PC yourself and your system gets fried you have to deal with a ton of warranties, plus you have all the options in the world of which to buy. Having a junk PSU in a prebuilt is understandable, having one in a custom build is not.

As for which you should buy, you should look for one that is at least Gold rated, and has extremely consistent positive reviews. Personally, I would recommend the "EVGA G2 220-G2-0650-Y1". Its efficient, has plenty of headroom for any expansions/upgrades you may do on your PC later, and has nearly universally positive reviews. It's $100, so much more expensive then the one you were looking at, but you get what you pay for.

For the 1050Ti, there shouldn't be any performance difference unless the card is overclocked (more fans = better for overclocking). The factory overclocked cards (ex: EVGA SuperClocked editions) run a little faster, but its mostly just for advertising and the actual performance difference is negligible. The extra fans can however result in noticeably lower noise levels since they don't have to spin as fast.

For the case, it doesn't support optical drives (if that's important to you), the ventilation seems rather poor, and it costs more. It is stylish though.

Hey Poly,

Based on the idea of being upgradable.

Then would a MOBO be similar to a PSU where getting a High level version of it makes it something to use in the long run while CPU and GPU are meant to be switched out more often?
-----------------------------
If so, what would be a MOBO you could recommend?

------------------------------

I also noticed my friend recomended a Micro ATX and Ive heard not so great things about going micro, since I upgraded from a laptop so I dont have to be so small, so whats the point?
----------------------------

Could you explain to me why you think the case had poor ventilation?

I was watching many user reviews on Youtube and they compared that the top 2 cases right now in that budget range are the
Phantek P400S
and the
NZXT S340 Elite

I found it specifically because I was looking for a case that had an
- Easily removable dust filter at every spot there could be a ventilation hole (Easy cleaning and prevent dust to actually go inside the rig)
- Quiet

- And as an extra bonus it had a fan speed button, which was something Ive always wanted to have with my laptop which is overly loud, the fans are always running like crazy.
------------------------------------

If anything could you recommend a case that has better ventilation and still has the above features that the Phantek offered?

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

Well, the motherboard can be considered a longer term investment if you go with AMD, but not really on Intel. Unfortunately Intel drops support for their older sockets with almost every new generation of CPUs, where as AMD traditionally lets you continue to use the same motherboard for many CPU generations. That's actually one of the main reasons many people like to go with AMD.

That said, the reasons for going with a more expensive board are somewhat limited. You'll probably get more PCIe/SATA/USB sockets, and in some cases built-in wifi (saves you a PCIe socket). The "ASRock X370 Taichi" would be the board I'd recommend atm if you care about those things, but otherwise don't worry about it. The motherboard you mentioned previously only supported 32GB of RAM though, I'd definitely recommend future proofing that aspect a bit more by getting one that supports 64GB (such as the "ASRock AB350 Pro4" for about the same price).

About the case: Only the front air intake is poor, the back exhaust ventilation is fine. Briefing over some reviews, seems the sound dampening is surprisingly good though. Overall I think it's OK, and I was probably being too harsh before. Go for it if you like it

gene098 · Sep 2017

PolyHertz said:

Well, the motherboard can be considered a longer term investment if you go with AMD, but not really on Intel. Unfortunately Intel drops support for their older sockets with almost every new generation of CPUs, where as AMD traditionally lets you continue to use the same motherboard for many CPU generations. That's actually one of the main reasons many people like to go with AMD.

That said, the reasons for going with a more expensive board are somewhat limited. You'll probably get more PCIe/SATA/USB sockets, and in some cases built-in wifi (saves you a PCIe socket). The "ASRock X370 Taichi" would be the board I'd recommend atm if you care about those things, but otherwise don't worry about it. The motherboard you mentioned previously only supported 32GB of RAM though, I'd definitely recommend future proofing that aspect a bit more by getting one that supports 64GB (such as the "ASRock AB350 Pro4" for about the same price).

About the case: Only the front air intake is poor, the back exhaust ventilation is fine. Briefing over some reviews, seems the sound dampening is surprisingly good though. Overall I think it's OK, and I was probably being too harsh before. Go for it if you like it

Thanks Poly~

I like the offering of 64g ram on the AB350 Pro4
Does it also come with built in wireless wifi?

---------------------------------------

And btw when you mentioned saving PCIe sockets, what exactly does that mean in terms of IRL appliance?
Im still quite new and the only definition Ive found of PCI e socket is...
"PCI Express, technically Peripheral Component Interconnect Express but often seen abbreviated as PCIe or PCI-E, is a standard type of connection for internal devices in a computer"

------------------------------------------

Btw in terms of the GPU I just found out that amazon and Microcenter both offer returns that are extremely nice.
So in that regard I think Id rather just tryout the programs and see if the GTX 1050ti can push that far, and if not get a stronger GPU.

Do you know of any ways I can see if a program is lagging, if its due to the GPU or CPU, or even the ram?

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

No, that motherboard doesn't have built wifi unfortunately.

PCIe sockets are those black bars along the bottom half of the motherboard, and it's where you connect graphics cards, wifi cards, etc. So if you wanted to use wifi on a motherboard that didn't have it built in, you'd need to get a wifi card and connect it to one of those.

To find out what component may be limiting performance of a program, open up the Windows task manager (ctrl+shift+esc), and look in the performance tab. If your tab doesn't show the GPU (depends which version of Windows your running), use GPU-Z along side it.

gene098 · Sep 2017

Ill go get GPU Z then and test 1050ti and others

Would it be more cost efficient to get a MOBO with wifi or a wifi card separately?

igi · Sep 2017

Onboard wifi is still an uncommon feature and mostly available on mainboards that geared towards small form factor PC builds. Like mini-ITX and some of m-ATX mainboards. There's also some expensive premium mainboard that have wifi because why not. An entry level mobo and a separate wifi card would be cheaper plus you'll have more options, like more dram slots. 1050ti power consumption is pretty minimal, an entry level mainboard would be sufficient for your rig, assuming you're not into overclocking.

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

Wifi card would be cheaper, you can get them for as low as $20.

gene098 · Sep 2017

Awesome!

Yeah im not looking for overclocking, ive heard it has no real benefit in the production side of realtime UI work
only for games.

And any suggestions for a decent wifi card?

igi · Sep 2017

Make sure to buy a wifi card with pci-express slot not pci. It will be more future compatible. Any wifi card from common brands are ok. tp-link, asus etc.

PolyHertz · Sep 2017

You could also get a USB wifi adapter. For recommendations...honestly just pick anything, some might have better range or better drivers, but I think its best to just try them out yourself. Make sure though that your desktop PC is in a good spot for it to get signal or you'll probably get a poor connection no matter what you buy.