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Petition to keep perpetual licensing at Autodesk

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knacki polycounter lvl 11
Long-time users of Autodesk software have started a thread on Autodesk's forum, protesting the price raise of the maintenance plans and asking the company to keep the perpetual/maintenance licensing option. Many high profile 3D artists are participating, including some who have been using 3D Studio since version 1.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/moving-to-subscription/keep-perpetual-maintenance-licensing/td-p/6970221/highlight/false

As I found this message on CGPress, I immediately went there. A lot of people saying what really made them angry over the years and find it's climax in the business plan change. Same did I.

And there is an Avaaz campaign against this:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Autodesk_Change_their_business_plan/

Sign this guys.
The increasing prices are just killing freelancers business.


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  • [Deleted User]
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    [Deleted User] insane polycounter
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  • Macebo
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    Thanks for letting us know, @knacki. Unfortunately, the petition page gives me a 404 error :(
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    What kind of salary is needed to keep up with Autodesk's monthly price?

    Say you're paying $1,500 for rent + utilities, $200 on groceries, $400 on transportation and $250 on Autodesk subscription. 

    That amounts to $28k a year. And that doesn't include any other subscription services. For some Junior roles, that kind of cost already devours your paycheck. 
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    Honestly, I sometimes feel the industry is kind of stupid to pay autodesks prices. The alternatives are not that much worse, if at all.
    I switched and wouldn't want to go back even autodesk match the price.
  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    They will never listen to that petition since its shareholders and business decisions to make them more money that they are worried.We have to be realistic and not expect them to change their license handling just because we dont like it, they have the leverage because they know we have our workflow tailored to the program and it makes it so that they dont need to support older versions.

    The way to make this effective is to ditch max from production.
  • Noren
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    Noren polycounter lvl 19
    Macebo said:
    Thanks for letting us know, @knacki. Unfortunately, the petition page gives me a 404 error :(
    There is a ":" missing behind https at the beginning. Here is the corrected link:

    https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Autodesk_Change_their_business_plan/
  • knacki
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    knacki polycounter lvl 11
    Sorry, I corrected the link.
    Whatever impact this will have, it is important to radically show what will happen, if they don't change their mind.
    Specially as max users we were treated like a stepchild in past.
    With 2018 there will be no production renderer included anymore.
    Updates have been .... what updates compared to other packages, specially compared to free blender?
    I started with max 5I upgraded to Entertainment, later to Ultimate and now everything changes into ultimate crazy costs I simply can't justify anymore.

    This is a ridiculous behaviour of a software monster that hasn't realised that reality is changing into opposite.
    Look at game engines, look at Blackmagic and fusion.
    The increasing amount of users defines if a package is worth something for investors and stock market.
    Autodesk products will be less worth in near future, I am sure.

  • Ruflse
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    Ruflse polycounter lvl 6
    If it wasn't a huge pain for me changing to Blender atm I would do it right now.
    Ironically the biggest reason I keep being a Max user is the neat amount of 3rd party tools the program has and I've grown accostumed to and that it's used in the industry, because the only real thing I've got from 2017 is a shitload of bugs for the UV mapping system and the most stupid crashes from time to time. But yeah I doubt they will be changing ways soon, if ever, even if the petition gets a lot of support.
    Their prices are so stupid that I can't help repeating them in my head everytime Max crashes. I would really love to see them crushed by another developer with a bit more of respect for the people that have to buy their products.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    I doubt the petition will work. The only way Autodesk will pay attention is if you move over to the competition. This can either be Blender or Modo. Blender has something called Bmax for users coming from Max, as well as an active plugin marketplace. Modo already has a PBR viewport with materials used to match both Unreal and Unity, as well as Allegorithmic's substance support. I also know they are openly targeting game dev as part of their primary market, which is good to know.

    Kick autodesk where it hurts, otherwise they wont get the message.
  • Aabel
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    Aabel polycounter lvl 6
    Dataday said:
    I doubt the petition will work. The only way Autodesk will pay attention is if you move over to the competition. This can either be Blender or Modo. Blender has something called Bmax for users coming from Max, as well as an active plugin marketplace. Modo already has a PBR viewport with materials used to match both Unreal and Unity, as well as Allegorithmic's substance support. I also know they are openly targeting game dev as part of their primary market, which is good to know.

    Kick autodesk where it hurts, otherwise they wont get the message.
    This. Switch, don't pirate, or use the student version, leave them behind.
  • lotet
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    lotet hero character
    This will finally get me to switch to Modo.  I'm all for it - die a slow withering death autodicks.
    yeees, come join us. we dont have cookies, but modo has this weird thing that when it updates, the new version isnt worse then the one before.

    hashtag 2008-max best max.
  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
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    Amsterdam Hilton Hotel insane polycounter
    Joao Sapiro said:
    The way to make this effective is to ditch max from production.
    correct

    they don't just make up prices out of nowhere to exploit you. demand is a factor. it's the only thing you have any control over!

    if you're not willing to abandon max or maya for any price... don't be surprised when you have to pay any price...

    remember boys: blender is free, modo is cheap
  • ExcessiveZero
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    ExcessiveZero polycounter lvl 6
    lotet said:
    This will finally get me to switch to Modo.  I'm all for it - die a slow withering death autodicks.
    yeees, come join us. we dont have cookies, but modo has this weird thing that when it updates, the new version isnt worse then the one before.

    hashtag 2008-max best max.
    as a former Max user and current Modo user that update comment made me snort with laughter lol.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    Dataday said:

    Kick autodesk where it hurts, otherwise they wont get the message.
    Where it hurts is in CAD and manufacturing
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    Dataday said:

    Kick autodesk where it hurts, otherwise they wont get the message.
    Where it hurts is in CAD and manufacturing
    Indeed, thats where their biggest $$ is coming from, however I do think their shareholders will not be happy if their M&E (media and entertainment) products (Maya, Max..ect) take a hit. It also will cause the impression that the current heads over at autodesk are doing a poor job at retaining seats.

    Plus, there really needs to be some competition in the market place. That cant happen if we keep relying on Autodesk.
  • Macebo
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    Macebo hero character
    I wouldn't mind to pay monthly for a license, and i even think it is actually not that unreasonable. But the amount of money they are asking is absolute nonsense, specially for individual artists.

    Ok. let's be realistic: if there is only perpetual licenses there will be problems to mantain the income for the company. Sure. But, as we are talking about capitalism, the thing is not only to mantain but to grow the business, atracting even more capital from investors while pleasing the shareholders. So that alone, in my opinion, explains the absolute lack of reasonability in asking for so much money to whom potentially can't even think to pay that monthly. 
  • Blond
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 8
    It did jump from $189.00 (CDN) that is expensive. The solution is to jump ship.  Start learning new software from scratch. I keep Maya 2015 installed that is only because I hopefully plan on learning scripting off the old version regardless how old it becomes.

    Look at Adobe, most only know the basics of Photoshop; yet it's a complex software with many techniques, same with the rest of Adobe family software. 
  • JordanN
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    JordanN interpolator
    All the prices are terrible. I was reading somewhere that said if Photoshop cost $20, what makes Max/Maya 10x more expensive? Is 3D modeling really considered 10x more work than drawing the same thing by hand?

    Anymore expensive and I'll just go back to painting 2D and have it look 3D. Maybe it will bring back traditional animation. :|
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666

    ...modo is cheap
    Well, $1800 isn't that cheap...it used to be much cheaper.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    PolyHertz said:

    ...modo is cheap
    Well, $1800 isn't that cheap...it used to be much cheaper.
    True, it used to be cheaper. Still, they didnt penalize you for not upgrading, nor were you locked out of future versions. It would be the same upgrade price to jump versions, which made it extremely pro-consumer. On top of that, they still had those 40% off sales, which is pretty big.

    Indie is also on the table. $299 perpetual or as low as $9 a month for rental.

    Wouldnt be surprised if they respond to this shift with a better/new deal. A lot seems to be changing right now with Modo, new website, new forum...ect  Its worth paying attention to Modo right now to see where things go, especially in light of this Autodesk shift.
  • mystichobo
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    mystichobo polycounter lvl 12
    Modo also quite frequently has quite large sales as well.
  • kio
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    kio polycounter lvl 15
    sadly for studio environment work the costs of switching software is pretty high... you know, changing pipeline stuff, train people, probably cant find enough trained people on the software, so have even more training. I feel like were pretty much stuck at the moment :/
  • marks
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    marks greentooth
    Right but how high actually IS the cost of switching? Because the amount that larger studios pay on max/maya licenses is easily in the 6 and 7-digit range. And you've only got to switch once to stop paying that cost every year.
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    Modo also quite frequently has quite large sales as well.
    This. They usually have a 40% off deal 1-2 times a year, usually around christmas and before a new version comes out. If you plan on buying a Modo license I would recommend waiting for the next sale.
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 8
    As interesting as Modo Indie is, if you want to have a common standard modeling program with all the modeling features in Maya without the price of Maya; MayaLT is the only option, regardless if you're in game dev or not. Atleast you get MEL scripting, Modo gives you no scripting ability & no polygon limit.
  • Jonas Ronnegard
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    I did switch to Modo for my private stuff, but had to admit defeat, although the way you can customize it and make macros is totally awesome, I really missed not actually having a clearly visualized center, I always felt like I was throwing things into nothingness, there was a lot of annoying stuff that I could macro myself out of but in the end I never really felt at home, and I'm quite used to switching softwares and I have used most of the one's available and usually got used to them quite fast, but it felt like Modo tries too hard to be different.

    Really want to put autodesk in their place though, just wish I could get Modo with maya as base but still get all the awesome stuff it does have.
  • Aabel
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    Aabel polycounter lvl 6
    marks said:
    Right but how high actually IS the cost of switching? Because the amount that larger studios pay on max/maya licenses is easily in the 6 and 7-digit range. And you've only got to switch once to stop paying that cost every year.
    Exactly. People need to keep their eyes open for the sunk cost fallacy.
  • Dataday
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    Dataday polycounter lvl 8
    I did switch to Modo for my private stuff, but had to admit defeat, although the way you can customize it and make macros is totally awesome, I really missed not actually having a clearly visualized center, I always felt like I was throwing things into nothingness, there was a lot of annoying stuff that I could macro myself out of but in the end I never really felt at home, and I'm quite used to switching softwares and I have used most of the one's available and usually got used to them quite fast, but it felt like Modo tries too hard to be different.

    Really want to put autodesk in their place though, just wish I could get Modo with maya as base but still get all the awesome stuff it does have.
    Out of curiosity, are you referring to the way Modo's grid works? If so one temporary solution is just to use workplane as the grid, as its far more defined. Also with 10, there have been some visual improvements to make it more defined.

     Coming from Maya, I felt, at least as far as modeling goes, at home with Modo. Just had to switch the navigation to Maya style (Its in the Modo options) and turn off the trackball rotation. With the game tools layout they include, you can pretty much stay in one streamlined layout and not have to switch around for various functionality. Alternatively, with the full version this particular UI plugin (Zen UI)  fixed a lot of the visual annoyances that one might find after coming from Maya.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI4A7mKO4P8

    Pretty much most of the current updates helped everything feel familiar enough to be comfortable to former Maya users. The adoption rate should be pretty quick once the shader tree is figured out.

    The other option is Blender with the Maya/Max keymap choices.

  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    Aabel said:
    marks said:
    Right but how high actually IS the cost of switching? Because the amount that larger studios pay on max/maya licenses is easily in the 6 and 7-digit range. And you've only got to switch once to stop paying that cost every year.
    Exactly. People need to keep their eyes open for the sunk cost fallacy.
    It's not a fallacy.

    We've had several teams of Tech Artists and Tech Anims develop tools for YEARS on Autodesk products. Literally Tens of Thousands of hours spent on export tools, and pipeline scripts, anim tools, kits, rendering, flagging, etc, etc, etc.


    Heck, our entire TressFX pipeline was made by a managed team of several Graphics Programmers, and Tech Artists  spanning over 2 years with heavy iteration and testing, and time spent with the engineers from Nvidia.

    This is just for the implementation of the 3DS Max tools. Recreating them in another software would be no small feat and no small expense.


  • Amsterdam Hilton Hotel
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    Amsterdam Hilton Hotel insane polycounter
    The sunk cost fallacy is real, but it refers to an unwillingness to abandon production on something because of past investment, so it doesn't quite describe this situation. What you're talking about with existing tools is capital that you already have. It's not still in production, the production cycle for it is already complete.

    Those completed tools do lose their value to you if you switch away from Max. But keep in mind that the upkeep of those tools is whatever the subscription cost for the base program is. This brings us back to marks' point, a lower upkeep cost will pay off long-run. That's true, but it's also true that cost of developing new tools for the new base program could be very high short-run.

    Anyway, this is one of the things that keeps that subscription cost up. If it would cost you too much to recreate your toolkit in a new program, that implicitly means you're willing to pay what Autodesk is asking. There would ultimately be some asking price at which you would just make new tools. 



    JordanN said:
    All the prices are terrible. I was reading somewhere that said if Photoshop cost $20, what makes Max/Maya 10x more expensive? Is 3D modeling really considered 10x more work than drawing the same thing by hand?
    This might seem intuitive, but it isn't how prices are set.

    https://www.amazon.com/Man-Economy-State-Market-Scholars/dp/1933550279

  • Jonas Ronnegard
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    Dataday said:
    I did switch to Modo for my private stuff, but had to admit defeat, although the way you can customize it and make macros is totally awesome, I really missed not actually having a clearly visualized center, I always felt like I was throwing things into nothingness, there was a lot of annoying stuff that I could macro myself out of but in the end I never really felt at home, and I'm quite used to switching softwares and I have used most of the one's available and usually got used to them quite fast, but it felt like Modo tries too hard to be different.

    Really want to put autodesk in their place though, just wish I could get Modo with maya as base but still get all the awesome stuff it does have.
    Out of curiosity, are you referring to the way Modo's grid works? If so one temporary solution is just to use workplane as the grid, as its far more defined. Also with 10, there have been some visual improvements to make it more defined.

     Coming from Maya, I felt, at least as far as modeling goes, at home with Modo. Just had to switch the navigation to Maya style (Its in the Modo options) and turn off the trackball rotation. With the game tools layout they include, you can pretty much stay in one streamlined layout and not have to switch around for various functionality. Alternatively, with the full version this particular UI plugin (Zen UI)  fixed a lot of the visual annoyances that one might find after coming from Maya.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI4A7mKO4P8

    Pretty much most of the current updates helped everything feel familiar enough to be comfortable to former Maya users. The adoption rate should be pretty quick once the shader tree is figured out.

    The other option is Blender with the Maya/Max keymap choices.

    Yeah using all those options, and have probably done everything possible to make it more like maya, guess I just don't feel at home with the everlasting grid, workplane is great though, something that I wish I had in Maya.
  • Aabel
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    Aabel polycounter lvl 6
    Aabel said:
    marks said:
    Right but how high actually IS the cost of switching? Because the amount that larger studios pay on max/maya licenses is easily in the 6 and 7-digit range. And you've only got to switch once to stop paying that cost every year.
    Exactly. People need to keep their eyes open for the sunk cost fallacy.
    It's not a fallacy.

    We've had several teams of Tech Artists and Tech Anims develop tools for YEARS on Autodesk products. Literally Tens of Thousands of hours spent on export tools, and pipeline scripts, anim tools, kits, rendering, flagging, etc, etc, etc.


    Heck, our entire TressFX pipeline was made by a managed team of several Graphics Programmers, and Tech Artists  spanning over 2 years with heavy iteration and testing, and time spent with the engineers from Nvidia.

    This is just for the implementation of the 3DS Max tools. Recreating them in another software would be no small feat and no small expense.


    Yes, there  is such a thing as sunk cost fallacy, that doesn't mean your studio is suffering from it. Given the size of the studio you work at, you would probably need to be a VP or exec producer to know whether your studio is falling victim to the fallacy or not. 
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    Dataday said:
    I did switch to Modo for my private stuff, but had to admit defeat, although the way you can customize it and make macros is totally awesome, I really missed not actually having a clearly visualized center, I always felt like I was throwing things into nothingness, there was a lot of annoying stuff that I could macro myself out of but in the end I never really felt at home, and I'm quite used to switching softwares and I have used most of the one's available and usually got used to them quite fast, but it felt like Modo tries too hard to be different.

    Really want to put autodesk in their place though, just wish I could get Modo with maya as base but still get all the awesome stuff it does have.
    Out of curiosity, are you referring to the way Modo's grid works? If so one temporary solution is just to use workplane as the grid, as its far more defined. Also with 10, there have been some visual improvements to make it more defined.

     Coming from Maya, I felt, at least as far as modeling goes, at home with Modo. Just had to switch the navigation to Maya style (Its in the Modo options) and turn off the trackball rotation. With the game tools layout they include, you can pretty much stay in one streamlined layout and not have to switch around for various functionality. Alternatively, with the full version this particular UI plugin (Zen UI)  fixed a lot of the visual annoyances that one might find after coming from Maya.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI4A7mKO4P8

    Pretty much most of the current updates helped everything feel familiar enough to be comfortable to former Maya users. The adoption rate should be pretty quick once the shader tree is figured out.

    The other option is Blender with the Maya/Max keymap choices.

    Yeah using all those options, and have probably done everything possible to make it more like maya, guess I just don't feel at home with the everlasting grid, workplane is great though, something that I wish I had in Maya.
    I don't really want to derail further, but if you freeze the workplane and then hide it, souldn't it be pretty much the same behaviour as max/maya? Or what exactly do you mean by everlasting grid?
  • Jonas Ronnegard
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    I kinda have to reinstall it to explain further, I just like having the grid in absolute center with a clear 0,0,0

    of course a lot of other small things that messed it up a bit for me as well, I think depending how your workflow looked in previous softwares it will be hard or easy to adjust, in my case it seemed to be a bit harder, and in this case It would be better to just lose 300$ to get my speed up again.
  • lefix
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    lefix polycounter lvl 11
    Yea, I guess that is true for all Programms. I worked with Max, Maya, C4D, Lightwave and Modo, and every time I switched there was always some feature I was missing dearly, but at the same time grew fond of some new features. I still miss some Max features now that I am using Modo, but at the same time I wouldn't want to switch back because there's now some Modo features that I don't want to live without.
  • Bek
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    Bek interpolator
    I kinda have to reinstall it to explain further, I just like having the grid in absolute center with a clear 0,0,0
    That's what modo has by default though? Your world grid (scale dependent on zoom level, but can be set to fixed grid) + the workplane. Though maybe there is confusion between item levels transforms (that move mesh + mesh center/pivot) and geometry level transforms, that only move the mesh.

    re: subscriptions costs; it's a danger of one company having too much influence. The first rule of business is not to provide the best service, but to provide the only service. They can do whatever they like as long as you put up with it. It's a bad situation for individual artists though, who might be forced to use max/maya because the studio's they want to work at require those products due to their custom tools / pipeline. Bit of a dependency cycle there...
  • Blond
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    Blond polycounter lvl 9
    On other news, Maya 2017 is an absolute bullf*ck,,,had tons of problems with it..
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 8
    I'm considering Modo, after much thought Autodesk really burned what they've done in the past two years. I suppose it's time to make a decision to boycott from this point forward Autodesk like I have with Starbucks ?


  • Michael Knubben
    Dataday said:

    The other option is Blender with the Maya/Max keymap choices.

    Because a lot of people try it and immediately nope out of Blender I want to make sure I mention this: don't use the maya/max keymaps.
    They're awful.
    There's some explanation in the Blender Mega Thread here on Polycount that explains how to quickly set up Maya-style camera controls, whereas the keymaps try (unsuccessfully) to to transport the entire Maya keymap into Blender.

    I don't know of a similar guide for the Max controls, but if anyone needs help setting that up just PM me. I switched from Max a few years ago, and I don't mind helping someone else do it.
    Not to take anything away from Modo, because I like Modo and think it's a great option for a lot of people.
  • thomasp
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    ^agree that the max/maya keymap isn't helpful since navigation and selection is still full on blender defaults weirdness. you'll have to cook your own or download one of the saner UI customizations (the silo-esque one from blenderartists was what got me started with hacking blender).

    i switched last year, it's certainly good to not be reliant on autodesk anymore. always hated the max/maya preference-split in studios anyway. would have never signed on for a place that enforces maya, what a way to ruin your workday! :) now it's all platform independent fairy tale rainbow unicorn land for me.
    at any rate i predict this petition will be a fruitless effort - companies never learn until the bottom line gets hit by which it'll be too late. better jump if you can, for modelers that's doable since there's not much of a pipeline in the first place to having to rely on for this job.

  • Sage
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    Sage polycounter lvl 19
    I don't see how their rental system will be sustainable. I'm surprised this issue wasn't brought up before. For example with Adobe they sort of decided that people would invest 50 dollars a month because they would have access to all their software. It's different with Autodesk. I get they want to divide cost of a perpetual license into 12 months.  I get it . But there is no real value in that, for established customers, because every time they upgrade their products, Max and Maya they break the production pipeline of their customers. So for them it's basically they are paying for software that they already bought. Plus their updates are not that great, and that's being polite. It takes years before they give people a real reason to want to upgrade. The only time Max seems to see any progress is when people from the community or third party developers add to the workflow. It's been similar with Maya. Autodesk doesn't seem to have any real interest in making Max or Maya better. They bought XSI and killed it, and all the good features the program had have not been integrated into Max or Maya. Back to Adobe, even if I don't update software for a few years, I still have access to allllllllllllll their software for 600 dollars a year!!!! With Autodesk you get Maya or Max for 2340 a year, and you are stuck with whatever crap update they choose to stick you with. Caddies.... they were such an upgrade!!! So what happens when they decide to kill Max or Maya because it's too expensive to "develop" the two programs. I can see value in their system if you can use more that one software, as in Max and Maya. Each software is good for different things still. For example I still feel Blender does a better job at modeling than Max or Maya at times. If they fix the few issues that Blender has there wouldn't be a reason to use Maya or Max. The only reason I'm learning Max or Maya is because the industry uses them.
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    Sage said:
    Autodesk doesn't seem to have any real interest in making Max or Maya better.

    not true for maya... there is a lot going on in the last year and there is crazy stuff in the pipe....
  • R3D
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    R3D interpolator
    after the death of softimage xsi I have no faith in autodesk
  • Eric Chadwick


    Sorry, haha, couldn't resist. Couldn't read, either. Paragraphs please!
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666
    Blender isn't a bad choice for those that want to jump ship from AD.

    That said, for people used to scripting small tools to help their workflow it can be quite painful. The documentation for scripting is not nearly as straight forward and robust as MEL/Maxscript (decent video tutorials are basically non-existent too), plus some basic features like garbage collection simply can't be done through python scripting (there's a button on the UI for it, but its not directly accessible to script). The source code is of course available, but most artists probably wouldn't want to take the time to delve into that.

  • Cristian_P
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    Cristian_P polycounter lvl 2
    Have you guys ever wondered why the entire games industry doesn't just switch to Blender?  (I'm not a Blender user by the way; I've worked predominantly in Modo and Max).  But the more I think about it, the more surprised I become about why this isn't happening by now.

    Why are so many game companies, big and small, paying Autodesk a ridiculous amount of money over time when they basically have this free alternative that's as strong as Max or Maya.  Maybe I'm wrong, but to me it seems like all they would have to lose is a couple of months to learn it and make it the main pipeline software for the studio.  After that, it would all just pay off in the long run.

    If enough people and companies would switch, things that are now either unknown or more difficult in Blender, like scripting, would probably become a lot more streamlined and better understood.  Are companies now so irrevocably tied to tools and scripts they wrote in-house for Max/Maya that they just can't justify moving to Blender?  I don't get it...
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Are companies now so irrevocably tied to tools and scripts they wrote in-house for Max/Maya that they just can't justify moving to Blender?  I don't get it...

    This goes further than just features. When purchasing a license from Autodesk one is also getting official support. Now of course there is a growing sentiment that this is all a bit of a joke or even a scam (knowing that ones license comes with "support" doesn't help much when the latest, buggiest Max or Maya crashes 5 times a day and causes one to lose work), but that's the reality of it from a purchasing and budgeting standpoint.

    Switching to Blender means switching to a fresh solution which is very similar feature wise at least as far as art content creation is concerned, but that also means that the studio is 100% on its own regarding tech support. Very doable for small studios with a small scope, but not an easy decision to make for a bigger structure.

    But again, the irony is that the big programs coming with "support" end up being more buggy than the one that doesn't. Very ironic but that's the state of things at the moment.

    Even the mere fact of using Blender in a studio environment can cause problems with IT. "Hey, can I use my favorite free and open source software to get work done better and faster ?" Some IT departments might be totally fine with that, but some would stay on the side of caution and at the very least would require some evaluation time to assess the risk and stability. For instance if tomorrow a online virus uses Blender as a backdoor, the IT manager's head would be on the line because there is no provided support from the (non-existent) vendor.

    This too is very ironic because Blender is very clean, does not require an online connection for authorisation, and doesn't rely on any bullshit always-on "application manager". But still, some requirements come with the territory of working in a corporate environment, and AD is very aware that it is their strength.
  • Cristian_P
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    Cristian_P polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks for shedding some light on the matter, Pior.  Oh right, I totally forgot about the tech support aspect.  Even so, as you pointed out, it doesn't help much when the software is innately buggy and quirks out on a regular basis.  I can only imagine what a pleasant experience it must be to go back and forth with Autodesk throughout the course of a day trying to figure out how to fix an issue : )

    Interesting point about potential viruses through Blender as a backdoor.  I can now understand why some IT departments are so restrictive.  Still, I feel like any company that would want to make a change could get serious and make Blender work for them quite well.  Ok, so Blender has no support and official vendor.  Does that impede a company's IT department from becoming stellar at knowing how to prevent or fix any software or security issues?  If anything, I feel like having complete autonomy over the program would allow a company to be more resourceful with Blender at all levels.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Yeah, it's all very ironic - especially since someone using a program they are fully comfortable with would have less needs for support than if forced to use a program that they have deep rooted issues with. I personally don't think it's unreasonable for a CG artist to expect as much software stability as possible. The safest being of course to bring it up clearly during one's interview.

    Also don't get me wrong, I am not saying that there are currently any viruses targeting Blender, or that it is even technically possible, that's just an example, I have no idea. I am just saying that from an IT/project management standpoint, relying on a tech solution with no guaranteed support can be against company policy hence not possible at all - regardless of how good the program is.

    As for having complete autonomy : this is where the human element comes in really. Some chains of commands might have people calling the shots that are more willing to take the risk (and spend the necessary evaluation and training time on it) than others. For instance in a small to medium indie studio you are likely to deal with deciders who are themselves technically-minded, hence willing to take such a bet. Whereas people in charge of a more traditional (bigger) structure would not consider this risk to be worth it. Again this all boils down to the way different businesses operate.
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