Microsoft Surface Studio

ahtiandr · Oct 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzMLA8YIgG0

So what do you guys think about this one? Do we have new king of the painting tablets or is wacom still the winner ?

Fuiosg · Oct 2016

MS seems to have some corporate-personality disorder, they think they're Apple now.

Looks interesting though, what's with the puck?

notman · Oct 2016

It looks amazing... funny how much they seem to be becoming like Apple. The video doesn't mention specs/pricing, but I'd love to have one. I'm sure it's ridiculously expensive though

notman · Oct 2016

For those looking for details: http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/10/26/13380462/microsoft-surface-studio-pc-computer-announced-features-price-release-date

ZacD · Oct 2016

If it was just the display/tablet, I'd want it. The puck is their Wacom wheel. The people calling it overpriced are silly, it's better band for your buck compared to a 5k iMac+Tablet, or the Wacom all in one PCs.

thomasp · Oct 2016

certainly looks cool. display/tablet only would be interesting to me too. don't want/need a computer with laptop gfx glued to it's bottom. doubtful that the puck will be well supported in third party applications, notice how the canvas rotation is not shown working inside photoshop.

generally i'd be concerned with how long the product line can be expected to be around and supported. microsoft has a bit of a history of introducing devices with a bang and then dropping them unceremoniously a few years later as far as i'm concerned. perhaps not so hot as an actual investment. i'd also not want to be tied firmly into windows tbh.

this kind of form factor has been around as the HP Z for a while now so there are alternatives to wacom anyway: http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/z1-g3.html
i read these are what dreamworks uses (used?) as a standard artist workstation.

Melazee · Oct 2016

It could be good, but if the drawing is anything like it is on my Surface Pro 3, then I'd probably give it a miss. That pen lag is extremely frustrating (did they fix it on the 4?).

It does look very nice however.

Michael_Ingrassia · Oct 2016

My biggest fear of buying any "hardware" from Microsoft is their short attention span to supporting a product. For example: Zune, Lifechat Headphones, Windows Phone. So I'm going to drop $3K on a workstation that they may give up on a year later? And what kind of 3D graphics do you really think that toy can handle? The $3K base model is an i5 core, 8gb Ram and outdated GTX 965M (mobile) uncapable of handling Oculus VR development.
Besides I can buy a screaming fast DigitalStorm Bolt3 Pro, liquid cooled i7 workstation with 16gb ram and NVIDIA Quadro K620 2GB (http://www.digitalstorm.com/workstation-computers.asp) and a Wacom 22HD for around $3500 done.
Nice try MicroTosh, I don't trust your hardware products.

Visum · Oct 2016

If you were to trust this guy he seems pretty damn happy with it.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surface-studio

Marshkin · Oct 2016

I like the idea behind it, and that screen looks gorgeous but that doesn't seem like a system that scales well.
$3k for something I won't be able to add RAM to seems a bit steep.

I do love that they focused on making the transition from using it as a monitor to a tablet seamless.

PixelMasher · Oct 2016

pure hotness. definitley on my radar, heard good things about most of the surface lineup. even if it is expensive that huge screen is gorgeous.

I think its mandatory when purchasing this to ask yourself...."why am I buying this?!" and the only answer you need to justify such a purchase is this:

BECAUSE MY LIFE IS DOPE AND I DO DOPE SHIT!

trust me. totally works

Fuiosg · Oct 2016

Melazee said:

It could be good, but if the drawing is anything like it is on my Surface Pro 3, then I'd probably give it a miss. That pen lag is extremely frustrating (did they fix it on the 4?).

Experienced the same thing with the pro 3 and pro 4 when I tried them out in stores. Could never understand how people can do serious art with that lag, compared to wacom's EMR/AES. Also I don't think n-trig supports 'tilt', which has always been a deal breaker for me. Maybe I just draw from the wrist more than most.

m4dcow · Oct 2016

AES and n-trig are basically the same tech. EMR is what most wacom products have traditionally used, but comes at the expense of battery drain, increased thickness and accuracy issues due to tracking on the digitizer, and not the actual screen.

Due to the form factor and the battery drain issues, I don't really see anyone using EMR tech outside of wacom themselves.

There was some evidence of cooperation between Microsoft and wacom earlier this year when they unveiled the universal stylus, so hopefully that went further and improved the implementations in these newer devices.
https://www.winbeta.org/news/future-pen-hardware-microsoft-powered-devices

rayle1112 · Oct 2016

I like everything about Surface Studio except the outdated GPU, and no Thunderbolt. Also I don't trust the Surface Pen.. This computer might be good for 2D artists but not for 3D artists. From 3D artist view, there is no point to spend $3000 - $4200 for a computer that can't upgrade GPU.

What do you think about Wacom Mobile Studio? I'm thinking about getting this one rather than Surface Studio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgHCPE-8hk8

Mark Dygert · Oct 2016

Very Mac-ish... that makes me a little ill, but overall I really like it. I think it's a good step forward for MS and they are actually pushing forward and innovating while Apple just deletes it's headphone jack from the iPhone6 and calls it a 7.

As cool as it is, I wish it swiveled, instead of just raising and lowering. I was that kid that always had his sketchbook tilted and would rotate it as I worked and I really like that with .

They seem to have solved that several rotate canvas options like photoshop has, which it sort of solves the problem but it's rotating the painting "inside the frame" instead of rotating the whole thing.

Maybe if I get one, I'll put the whole thing on a lazy susan...

slipsius · Oct 2016

Ok, this looks awesome, and I dont even do digital drawings.

I think it's funny that everyone's comparing them to Apple now. What made Apple so special was that they made things that seemed futuristic. Well, the future is here. The iphone came out 9 and a half years ago. If companies didnt adapt to that way of thinking, and pushing the bounds of computing, they would be left behind.

Personally, I dont think Apple is all that special anymore. They have been extremely influential up till now, absolutely. But the other companies have caught up and are doing the same cool stuff they are. In this case, they are doing even cooler things.

Fuiosg · Oct 2016

I think MS are better innovators than Apple at the moment in hardware, I just don't care for the wholesale imitation in their ads, it's embarrassing-- they should be taking this time to separate themselves from apple and build on their own brand.

Indik · Oct 2016

Looks nice, but I`d take Cintiq + PC for that price. Because it has antiglare screen (how could anyone work on those glossy glass screen?), should have much better tactile feel and is compatible with any PC/mac setup. I`ve checked my colleagues iPad Pro and its draw-on-glass feeling is so inferior to wacom I wouldn`t even consider it as an option. Ofc I haven`t checked Surface Studio yet by myself, but it looks like it has the same problem as Apple`s tablet - good enough for consumers but not there for everyday pro usage.

rayle1112 · Oct 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28PW-L06WVE

Indik · Oct 2016

They haven't even fixed the pen wobble from old surfaces? That`s why I don't trust MS no matter how cool their hardware looks. Cool look <> usable.

CreativeSheep · Oct 2016

It's an good fight against Apple which I support although for me, I would still rather get the latest Wacom Mobile.
What I loved the most about the event which Microsoft held was creating 3D models with your smart phone (Windows Phone) that I wanted right away on my Windows Phone

Other then that Microsoft is going head to head against Apple which means making Windows10 Create Edition more geared towards "artists" as in the case of iOS. Create Edition is a worth while upgrade; Anniversary was a good update.

I like the direction they are taking Windows, it appears Microsoft is getting their cards in order especially with there pride possession, Windows followed by Office. There giving everyone the best now because many will have to pay for Windows10 ($250)

Dataday · Oct 2016

Indik said:

They haven't even fixed the pen wobble from old surfaces? That`s why I don't trust MS no matter how cool their hardware looks. Cool look <> usable.

Thats an odd thing to say. The pen is N-Trig. Microsoft acquired their tech last year. Its not going to become wacom in just a year after acquisition. Other digitizers also have some problems, including UC Logic which is in other Wacom alternatives. Heck, even Wacom has a little bit of wiggle if you look close enough.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/1/8529029/microsoft-n-trig-surface-pro-3

Indik · Oct 2016

Dataday said:

Indik said:

They haven't even fixed the pen wobble from old surfaces? That`s why I don't trust MS no matter how cool their hardware looks. Cool look <> usable.

Thats an odd thing to say. The pen is N-Trig. Microsoft acquired their tech last year. Its not going to become wacom in just a year after acquisition. Other digitizers also have some problems, including UC Logic which is in other Wacom alternatives. Heck, even Wacom has a little bit of wiggle if you look close enough.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/1/8529029/microsoft-n-trig-surface-pro-3

Well, the problem with pen wobble doesn`t look too complicated and unfixable. It seems MS just doesn`t care much, since this is a third generation pen with problems.
Why a 4200$ artist-targeted device has basic functionality quirks, zero upgradability, glossy screen? Who knows how many other problems can be there (overheating, stable drivers, software compatibility etc). Wacom is not cheap and not fancy looking but at least it works. My 10 year old intuos 3 does better job of drawing lines..

Poribo · Oct 2016

I love it, it looks great. Especially being able to easily change from using it as a monitor to drawing mode and back.
I would prefer to buy it without the 'computer' side and use it like a Cintiq with my current workstation.

littleclaude · Oct 2016

I can see this being a huge hit in the UK over apple products as the have chosen to rack up the costs up to $500, which they cliam is due to the Brexit. What a crock of crap. Nice move MS it looks like a great product.

m4dcow · Oct 2016

littleclaude said:

I can see this being a huge hit in the UK over apple products as the have chosen to rack up the costs up to $500, which they cliam is due to the Brexit. What a crock of crap. Nice move MS it looks like a great product.

Well, Microsoft recently increased product prices and fees in the UK also. This was due to the value drop of the sterling which was triggered by Brexit and you can't really blame any company for doing this (though for Apple this is on top of the Apple Tax). I haven't seen any UK prices for the Surface Studio, but I don't think it will be good.

rayle1112 · Oct 2016

http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2016/03/31/microsoft-wacom-teaming-make-universal-pen-pcs/

This is a good news, I hope it is real.

thomasp · Oct 2016

littleclaude said:

I can see this being a huge hit in the UK over apple products as the have chosen to rack up the costs up to $500, which they cliam is due to the Brexit. What a crock of crap. Nice move MS it looks like a great product.

in this case you are not just moving to some other brand for the gear though, rather you have to switch out OS and applications and god-knows-what with it.

ZacD · Oct 2016

thomasp said:

littleclaude said:

I can see this being a huge hit in the UK over apple products as the have chosen to rack up the costs up to $500, which they cliam is due to the Brexit. What a crock of crap. Nice move MS it looks like a great product.

in this case you are not just moving to some other brand for the gear though, rather you have to switch out OS and applications and god-knows-what with it.

It is a bit silly to switch OS just because of a $500 jump in costs. BUT Apple high end hardware has been very stagnant and not catering to the professional crowd. The highest end Mac Pro has the performance equivalent of 2x $200 GPUs for the low cost of $4600. And the new MacBook Pro maxes out with the performance equivalent of a between the 960M-970M for $3000.

I know just going off the specs, and imagining purchasing for a studio, I'd rather gets a Microsoft Surface Studio with a 980M for $4200, than a Mac Pro for $4600. Mostly because the Surface Studio costs about the same, but also includes an amazing monitor that hopefully replaces the need for a $2000 Cintiq. And the more modern and powerful GPU doesn't hurt.

thomasp · Oct 2016

ZacD said:

It is a bit silly to switch OS just because of a $500 jump in costs. BUT Apple high end hardware has been very stagnant and not catering to the professional crowd.

that's totally true. the mac pro has not been updated in three years and there's total silence about it's future. that's not how you keep business customers commited to your platform. not sure tbh how apple imagines what content creators for it's ecosystem are supposed to use now. but that's another thread in itself.

Fuiosg · Oct 2016

The touch bar on the new macbook pros was certainly interesting though, I imagine that'd be handy for replacing docked toolbars taking up screen space, maybe the ability to work in fullscreen more often. But the price per specs don't add up, 3k for basically a 965m.

ZacD · Nov 2016

My issue with the touch bar is that mini companion displays have been around for 10+ years, and they haven't really become mainstream or standard. Using the trackpad (with something like 2 finger swiping) would work just as well to scrub, and would be in a better location.

huffer · Nov 2016

I don't think the touch bar would be used much..the focus is interacting with the display, not going back and forth with your eyes between keyboard and screen. The surface dial is a great idea in comparison.

Indik · Nov 2016

ZacD said:

My issue with the touch bar is that mini companion displays have been around for 10+ years, and they haven't really become mainstream or standard. Using the trackpad (with something like 2 finger swiping) would work just as well to scrub, and would be in a better location.

Same issue with pen input, wacom has been there for decades - and who uses them besides artists? Or take smartphones, Samsung has Note series with quite a decent stylus (for a phone), and still it is being outsold by Apple and Samsung`s own S-series which costs just as much. Thus I doubt that people outside of art industry care about pen input in a desktop PC. From artists perspective Studio has many questions to be answered and a very high price tag. But kudos to MS for at least trying.

DrunkShaman · Nov 2016

Seems nice, but I would only recommend building your own machine and buying a wacom cintiq to connect to it, instead of having surface pro studio and facing the issues relevant to your art.

thomasp · Dec 2016

surface studio review (pen display feedback on page 2):
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/surface-studio-beautiful-screen-clever-engineering-but-a-mediocre-product/

gnoop · Dec 2016

I have already so accustomed to draw on middle sized wacom tablet and look at a big, unobstructed by my own hands vertically positioned screen, any true "natural" way seems so awkward and unnatural for me. Even when I do it with a canvas on an easel it somehow feels wrong and tiresome now. Too much of redundant hand movements.
ps. Nothing about actual quality of the screen, so my first guess would be something crappy , laptop style, not covering even sRGB fully

ZacD · Dec 2016

@gnoop 4500 x 3000 10-bit display, gamut extends to DCI-P3 (25% larger than sRGB). Sounds like it's on par with an iMac or Apple Cinema Display, but I cannot find a full and proper display only review. The Surfaces have always had great displays.

Microsoft Surface Studio

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