Hey all its been a long time, but hey Halo 4 is done so HELL YA!!!. Here's for lack of a better work an art purge of some of the stuff I've done worked on and kinda where Im going. In terms of the proffesional work. Huge thanks to Blizzard and 343, keep kick ass dudes.
Much more coming, Having a blast learning and growing. I was also lucky enough to release two Gnomon DVDs this year. The rest of the year will be spent wrapping up my visualrium class and doing more hardsurface stuff and trying to suck less. Hope all is well (Stay Metal)
and here is a play through of the cave area I worked on/did. Like every production there are million people that work on it but a call out to Nick my lead, Mark the Lighter and Chris who placed a helping hand on the intro space...I modeled too much crap in there and he cleaned it up :P, for the blizzard stuff BFD of course but directly to my boss/friend/teacher dude Seth, slay on dude!!
Thanks again
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyWTu24Q3mM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyWTu24Q3mM[/ame]
The compression killed this one but its for a class i was teaching
Speed Sculpt for a class I'm teaching for Visualarium
I've always found your pieces incredibly difficult to discern between the hands-on artwork (meshes, texturing) to the stuff that is done in post or heavily rendered/non-real-time effects.
Then there is stuff that is just so abstract its hard to follow or really appreciate beyond being 'abstract'. There is zero functionality here besides 2 wheels that makes the rest of the design seem... pointless? Maybe the point is that you're flexing your 3D muscles a bit, which I suppose is fine, I just am not sure if thats the intention. The rendering is really well done, but the design I find hard to follow. Thinkinking back, a lot of your portfolio is splattered with pieces much like this. Then again this could just be something abstract and for fun that is rendered really well and I am making a point about nothing.
Then there is high-poly modeling like this, which is great. And its easy to appreciate the time for separating the materials.
You're so all over the place its hard to tell what you're a master of specifically, while knowing you're a master of something. I wish you broke down your shots more so we knew exactly what is was you're showing us.
Speed Sculpt, 30 minutes. Its great these rocks only took you 30 minutes to sculpt, but then you pile on colors & textures without actually showing the sculpt work itself and it makes it difficult to appreciate the '30 minute sculpt' you've done.
I mean - where's the study? You say you did a quick late-night study but then show a textured/poly painted tree root that is ripe with lens effects and dramatic lighting. If you're going to show the study - show the study. Why bother dressing it up and making it virtually impossible to critique as a study but instead focus on it as this pretty little render?
I'm a fan of a lot of your pieces but so much of them confuse me rather than intrigue me and I am not sure I've done such a good job articulating why.
Cool feedback I think, lol ya the bike was something new like everything it takes practice. I do environments to pay the bills and in my free time I play around with new things.
I figure I should actually reply to you correctly because you took the time to write everything out, I'm just gonna level with you because I think you brought up some cool points but to be honest it didn't come off the greatest. The car is a totally new way for me to model which I'm really excited about. I'm doing alot of lofting and what not which is something I never do. It will get better especially since its took me about 6 hours of work. When you present feedback like that without framing it better it really does give the wrong impression. In terms of shot break downs, I do my personal work for me. I do it because production overtime kinda sucks. The speed sculpts in corporate lighting, materials, and fx. If i was doing this for someone other then myself and they requested it I would break it do. The idea of study is just that, its a learning process. Sharing with the community is just extra fun. The stump was learning some new modeling techniques and doing it fast. Kinda like weight lifting. The process of look development is what I was after there along with just doing it. I totally get your feedback and I agree 100 percent with you on the car thanks for your feedback man. I wouldn't really call myself a master of anything. To be frank i hope I never master anything, for me the act of learning is the best part. Anyway, thanks for feedback
Sorry I keep dumping work but here is some of the stuff from a bit of the WOW stuff all of this is owned by Blizzard but its test and early stuff that we did while proto typing (rapid studies and tests). Oh The temple was in the WoW book for mists which was cool. Thanks again Guys
Because I am curious: What satisfaction do you get when you cover your personal artwork in post-effects and post-processing that completely hides the work you spent the last X amount of hours on?
I get that most art in our medium is covered in post work, but you're spending such little time on these pieces only to then douse it in visual non-sense that it makes it hard, as the viewer, to really appreciate the actual art or study you've made.
I feel as though you're showing us 90% flash and 10% substance when really you should be pushing yourself to do the opposite. Who are you doing all of this '90% flash' for? Yourself? If it was really for yourself you'd be doing the study, reviewing it yourself and passing on to the next project. But instead you do the study, then spend the time doing all of this flash & glitter for... yourself? Or to make it look better for when you pass it on to communities like CGSociety or Polycount? Really a lot of us would just love to see the hard work and growth, not (and I have to apologize now for how harsh this will sound) the bullshit.
I'd love to see artwork from someone as fast as you that is 90% substance in growth and 10% 'flash'. Unfortunately this is me (someone from the community, nothing more) wanting something from you, and you've made it clear your interests lie in making yourself happy. I just want to understand more about the elements of your pieces of art that seem to pander to an audience as I find it somewhat contradictory and interferes with us (the audience) watching a fantastic artist grow.
I need to back up a second as I don't want to feel like I am in anyway on the offensive. I've been lurking for a long, long time at Polycount and have seen everyone one of your posts. Only recently have I registered and I have finally taken the time to write out what I can only hope is constructive feedback without any of the sugar coating so many elements of criticism can have. You're an established artist who's clearly got some skill so I figured you could handle a little bit of unfiltered feedback.
TL;DR: Everything you post is a test or a study and I'd love to see something you've spent a month on that applies everything you've learned from all of these tests.
Dude I would love to fight and argue with you but there is no point to it. Thanks again for posting. If you feel the work is bullshit then don't post or comment I'm not going to get into a trolling war with you.
I re-read my post and at no point did I say your artwork is bullshit. I said that heavy use of post process is visual bullshit, but thats a general comment that happens to apply to this conversation. I assure you I do not think of your work as bullshit.
I am not trolling either, I am simply trying offer up an outlook on your work I have noticed others have brought up before but I feel is valid. Now of course this is all my opinion and you can do with it what you will, but please do not take this as outright trolling. Or an argument. A discussion with you on the points I brought up was the intention, but I will respectfully move on if you're offended by my criticisms .
I am trying to be as thoughtful as I can in respect to your talent while offering up feedback I thought you could handle.
Knowing Dave personally having worked with him when he was just an intern at Midway many years ago I can say that this guy has grown more in those years since then, than most other artists I know personally, including myself.
Dave does something a lot of people don't and always seems to give us nice renders as well as sexy art. Yes some designs are batshit insane and could use the work and I think his earlier work really had these issues.
However, knowing where Dave has worked and other guys that have worked with him he is held in very high regard as being an incredibly talented artist so I wouldn't worry too much about the lens flares, post work in his renders as much. It is art after all and while I would like to see more breakdowns like you mentioned, it doesn't subtract from his already stellar portfolio and skill sets.
How highly someone is regarded at a company is more-than-irrelevant to the conversation and distracts from the point.
As for your last point, I clearly disagree and think it does distract from his art and I also think it contradicts his intentions as stated during the discussion. I did my best to explain that to him, and as a fan of some of his pieces, asked that he considers my criticisms when moving on to his next projects. Personal, professional, or otherwise.
Either way, clearly there was some offense made that was entirely unintentional.
Hey metal, I just read through your entire thread, and damn, I wish you would post more often but when you do its always spectacular, but the thing is, I see where xyz is comeing from, and you dont ever have to do anything you dont want to, but for example take this image you posted way back in 2009.
Obviously you have improved 100 fold since then, but I found more information in that than this:
While that was an amazing model, and most likely better than the former, it was just a render. Xyz was just pointing that out, it doesn't help us try to be more like you or better in general. Where your trying to get better, (and I hope what ever you take from this its not to stop what your doing, because what your doing is excellent), your not helping us try to get better, and it would be awesome if you would instead of rendering out high quality renders, just show us screen caps from udk, or if its high poly do a bpr in zbrush or w/e, just wireframes, textures, that kind of stuff is what majorly helps us people who want to get better as well.
Perhaps starting your own thread to show off your own art would lend some weight to your crits.
i could be the most terrible artist in the world and that would not change that all I am offering is an opinion; an outside view. my professional portfolio or my personal body of work is completely irrelevant to this conversation and would serve absolutely no purpose other than your own selfish afirmation.
i do not want to keep poisoning mm's thread so ill show myself out. If you feel you have further points to make regarding my point of view send me a private message.
Totally get it, 100 percent. I typically now for my personal stuff just show the image. For me alot of the study portion comes from seeing the progression in the final frame. I think XYZ is right on with his stuff. I hope he doesn't stop voicing his opinion. For me I typically like to see the end result, it helps me evaluate the frame. But in the future if you guys like seeing that stuff totally. I would also like to apologize to you for having to go through my old work lol
Totally get it, 100 percent. I typically now for my personal stuff just show the image. For me alot of the study portion comes from seeing the progression in the final frame. I think XYZ is right on with his stuff. I hope he doesn't stop voicing his opinion. For me I typically like to see the end result, it helps me evaluate the frame. But in the future if you guys like seeing that stuff totally. I would also like to apologize to you for having to go through my old work lol
right on man, cant wait. if polycount ever launches another environmetn contest you should enter
Pending Im not in the middle of production that would be sick as hell, I always like the contests here. But again XYZ great discussion dude. Slayer loves you.
Dave works his ass off. He makes crazy looking shit! It looks good. In part, Art is about making things look great, no? That's what he does, what with the renders and all, even if they have post-processing, if it makes the art look better, why not use it? And obviously he can make stuff that works appropriately for real-time, working where he does in the industry. He has released two DVD's documenting his process, somewhat. What more are you asking for, XYZ? >D
(This is Anthony Aiello btw, Dave. Keep it up man, and congrats on Halo 4's success dude!!!)
Looking awesome man! Love your stuff I have to ask, with the plants and such it looks like the stems are separate meshes from the leaves, what did the animation/dynamics department do for the plants when it comes to handling every leaf and stem to get the proper pivot points? I know you probably aren't allowed to tell us too much but I figured I'd ask. :P
Also congrats on Halo 4! 343 did what I didn't think they could do... which is make me fall in love with halo all over again.
I took some time to step away for a bit and re-read everything a bit slower that was said and actually changed my opinion. (Yep, I was wrong, but don't tell my wife cause I'll never hear the end of it.)
Dave has awesome work and I remember a few years back Kevin Johnstone tore into it with some amazing crits and while they seemed harsh they were right.
While your work has improved vastly since then I think the presentation is a bit all over the place. Looking at peoples folios like KJ, EQs stuff, Vahl, hell even mine and most people try to set up templates or at least clean easy to read renders and images that can show off the work.
Nice hp renders, wireframes, texture flats, etc are all nice to see. Granted a lot of this is for your blog and perhaps you have a lot of the other things and could easily share them I do think that many people could benefit more from it then not seeing it.
I would love to have a break down of your approaches to the trees/vines/rocks. While I do appreciate the awesome render I would also like to see how you actually got there to that point.
Also the framing seems to be a bit cluttered at times and others not as distracting so also something to look at.
Yeah I have to agree. I would love to see more of your process because its education or something like that. You do make some pretty impressive stuff but why no RIDE love? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Congrats Metal, keep it up!
I took some time to step away for a bit and re-read everything a bit slower that was said and actually changed my opinion. (Yep, I was wrong, but don't tell my wife cause I'll never hear the end of it.)
Dave has awesome work and I remember a few years back Kevin Johnstone tore into it with some amazing crits and while they seemed harsh they were right.
While your work has improved vastly since then I think the presentation is a bit all over the place. Looking at peoples folios like KJ, EQs stuff, Vahl, hell even mine and most people try to set up templates or at least clean easy to read renders and images that can show off the work.
Nice hp renders, wireframes, texture flats, etc are all nice to see. Granted a lot of this is for your blog and perhaps you have a lot of the other things and could easily share them I do think that many people could benefit more from it then not seeing it.
I would love to have a break down of your approaches to the trees/vines/rocks. While I do appreciate the awesome render I would also like to see how you actually got there to that point.
Also the framing seems to be a bit cluttered at times and others not as distracting so also something to look at.
Totally, understand. In terms of break downs, I can start to post those. Again for the personal work its much more whatever for me. But the templates and what not will come when my site gets launched. I swear something better then blog will appear lol. In terms of framing I tend to work based off set rules but again it takes time and it will get better. As far as documenting my work goes, I've done this http://www.visualarium.com/david-lesperance/
and this http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/289/
But I will start to post more behind the scenes stuff!!!
At the end of the day, everything can be better and will be. Its a growing process. In terms of post work up here its really for fun and to get feedback which is great!.
positive feedback :
i see a huge amount of ambition in your works. i can definitely tell that you are a very dedicated and serious artist with lot of passion to push your skills ahead. your attention to detail and just the massive amount of work that you put into most of your work shows you have lot of patience as well. i can see that you are also experimenting with look development which is a good thing to think of when making any art asset.
you speed is also very good given the amount of work you are showing.
negative(constructive?!@$) feedback :
XYZ made a lot of good point and he was being blunt. he might have been a bit confused with your approach but did make some good points. i personally dont see why that should bother you as an artist. lot of your works seem epic and almost overkill in some way. they lack focus in some areas and lack purpose in others. it almost seems like you skipped over the high level art direction and just dived right into mid level detail and in many areas not spend enough time to finish an asset with final quality. i see you doing post process for look development, while that may be good it could also be a distraction to keep you from not going all the way to a polished asset. while speed is a good thing, it seems you are going for quantity more so than quality. i wont say they quality is bad, in fact far from it but quality could be even better if you slow down and focus on less assets with more polish and time put into it.
summary - inspirational work but may be slow down a bit, focus and go for quality over quantity.
btw, this pieces are your best works i think that shows lot of the positives i mentioned and almost none of the negatives as well.
Christ I love your work dude. I was watching your stuff when i was in college. Great Feedback and I agree with XYZ, but again dude thanks for checkin out my work. Love your stuff dude
I dont know how you do it, I mean....I know HOW, but....I dont know how. You make it look so easy, which brings to mind the old saying "the easier something looks, the harder it is". Great job all around man, nothing but fanboy praise ect. from over here.
Hey dudes, I've finally gotten around to creating a site, the domain will change after the new year some time. But I wanted to share it, thanks again XYZ for pressuring me to get my shit straight lol http://david-lesperance.squarespace.com/
Replies
Much more coming,
Dave
Heres my reel its a bit old but its something
http://vimeo.com/42393359
This is the masters class/first DVD trailer too
http://vimeo.com/32992860
and here is a play through of the cave area I worked on/did. Like every production there are million people that work on it but a call out to Nick my lead, Mark the Lighter and Chris who placed a helping hand on the intro space...I modeled too much crap in there and he cleaned it up :P, for the blizzard stuff BFD of course but directly to my boss/friend/teacher dude Seth, slay on dude!!
Thanks again
[ame="
The compression killed this one but its for a class i was teaching
Speed Sculpt for a class I'm teaching for Visualarium
Early concept I messed up in 3d lol
Zbrush Beta Work I know its busy as all hell
I have a joke for this one but I dont think it needs to be said
Then there is stuff that is just so abstract its hard to follow or really appreciate beyond being 'abstract'. There is zero functionality here besides 2 wheels that makes the rest of the design seem... pointless? Maybe the point is that you're flexing your 3D muscles a bit, which I suppose is fine, I just am not sure if thats the intention. The rendering is really well done, but the design I find hard to follow. Thinkinking back, a lot of your portfolio is splattered with pieces much like this. Then again this could just be something abstract and for fun that is rendered really well and I am making a point about nothing.
Then there is high-poly modeling like this, which is great. And its easy to appreciate the time for separating the materials.
You're so all over the place its hard to tell what you're a master of specifically, while knowing you're a master of something. I wish you broke down your shots more so we knew exactly what is was you're showing us.
Speed Sculpt, 30 minutes. Its great these rocks only took you 30 minutes to sculpt, but then you pile on colors & textures without actually showing the sculpt work itself and it makes it difficult to appreciate the '30 minute sculpt' you've done.
I mean - where's the study? You say you did a quick late-night study but then show a textured/poly painted tree root that is ripe with lens effects and dramatic lighting. If you're going to show the study - show the study. Why bother dressing it up and making it virtually impossible to critique as a study but instead focus on it as this pretty little render?
I'm a fan of a lot of your pieces but so much of them confuse me rather than intrigue me and I am not sure I've done such a good job articulating why.
I get that most art in our medium is covered in post work, but you're spending such little time on these pieces only to then douse it in visual non-sense that it makes it hard, as the viewer, to really appreciate the actual art or study you've made.
I feel as though you're showing us 90% flash and 10% substance when really you should be pushing yourself to do the opposite. Who are you doing all of this '90% flash' for? Yourself? If it was really for yourself you'd be doing the study, reviewing it yourself and passing on to the next project. But instead you do the study, then spend the time doing all of this flash & glitter for... yourself? Or to make it look better for when you pass it on to communities like CGSociety or Polycount? Really a lot of us would just love to see the hard work and growth, not (and I have to apologize now for how harsh this will sound) the bullshit.
I'd love to see artwork from someone as fast as you that is 90% substance in growth and 10% 'flash'. Unfortunately this is me (someone from the community, nothing more) wanting something from you, and you've made it clear your interests lie in making yourself happy. I just want to understand more about the elements of your pieces of art that seem to pander to an audience as I find it somewhat contradictory and interferes with us (the audience) watching a fantastic artist grow.
I need to back up a second as I don't want to feel like I am in anyway on the offensive. I've been lurking for a long, long time at Polycount and have seen everyone one of your posts. Only recently have I registered and I have finally taken the time to write out what I can only hope is constructive feedback without any of the sugar coating so many elements of criticism can have. You're an established artist who's clearly got some skill so I figured you could handle a little bit of unfiltered feedback.
TL;DR: Everything you post is a test or a study and I'd love to see something you've spent a month on that applies everything you've learned from all of these tests.
:thumbup:
I re-read my post and at no point did I say your artwork is bullshit. I said that heavy use of post process is visual bullshit, but thats a general comment that happens to apply to this conversation. I assure you I do not think of your work as bullshit.
I am not trolling either, I am simply trying offer up an outlook on your work I have noticed others have brought up before but I feel is valid. Now of course this is all my opinion and you can do with it what you will, but please do not take this as outright trolling. Or an argument. A discussion with you on the points I brought up was the intention, but I will respectfully move on if you're offended by my criticisms .
I am trying to be as thoughtful as I can in respect to your talent while offering up feedback I thought you could handle.
Dave does something a lot of people don't and always seems to give us nice renders as well as sexy art. Yes some designs are batshit insane and could use the work and I think his earlier work really had these issues.
However, knowing where Dave has worked and other guys that have worked with him he is held in very high regard as being an incredibly talented artist so I wouldn't worry too much about the lens flares, post work in his renders as much. It is art after all and while I would like to see more breakdowns like you mentioned, it doesn't subtract from his already stellar portfolio and skill sets.
As for your last point, I clearly disagree and think it does distract from his art and I also think it contradicts his intentions as stated during the discussion. I did my best to explain that to him, and as a fan of some of his pieces, asked that he considers my criticisms when moving on to his next projects. Personal, professional, or otherwise.
Either way, clearly there was some offense made that was entirely unintentional.
Substance over flash.
I'll move on.
[ame="
Perhaps starting your own thread to show off your own art would lend some weight to your crits.
Obviously you have improved 100 fold since then, but I found more information in that than this:
While that was an amazing model, and most likely better than the former, it was just a render. Xyz was just pointing that out, it doesn't help us try to be more like you or better in general. Where your trying to get better, (and I hope what ever you take from this its not to stop what your doing, because what your doing is excellent), your not helping us try to get better, and it would be awesome if you would instead of rendering out high quality renders, just show us screen caps from udk, or if its high poly do a bpr in zbrush or w/e, just wireframes, textures, that kind of stuff is what majorly helps us people who want to get better as well.
i could be the most terrible artist in the world and that would not change that all I am offering is an opinion; an outside view. my professional portfolio or my personal body of work is completely irrelevant to this conversation and would serve absolutely no purpose other than your own selfish afirmation.
i do not want to keep poisoning mm's thread so ill show myself out. If you feel you have further points to make regarding my point of view send me a private message.
right on man, cant wait. if polycount ever launches another environmetn contest you should enter
(This is Anthony Aiello btw, Dave. Keep it up man, and congrats on Halo 4's success dude!!!)
The fuck.
Also congrats on Halo 4! 343 did what I didn't think they could do... which is make me fall in love with halo all over again.
WHAT ARE UUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ?!
I HATE U !
I took some time to step away for a bit and re-read everything a bit slower that was said and actually changed my opinion. (Yep, I was wrong, but don't tell my wife cause I'll never hear the end of it.)
Dave has awesome work and I remember a few years back Kevin Johnstone tore into it with some amazing crits and while they seemed harsh they were right.
While your work has improved vastly since then I think the presentation is a bit all over the place. Looking at peoples folios like KJ, EQs stuff, Vahl, hell even mine and most people try to set up templates or at least clean easy to read renders and images that can show off the work.
Nice hp renders, wireframes, texture flats, etc are all nice to see. Granted a lot of this is for your blog and perhaps you have a lot of the other things and could easily share them I do think that many people could benefit more from it then not seeing it.
I would love to have a break down of your approaches to the trees/vines/rocks. While I do appreciate the awesome render I would also like to see how you actually got there to that point.
Also the framing seems to be a bit cluttered at times and others not as distracting so also something to look at.
I actualy came across your DVDs this morning and got started on them, very useful straight away, will enjoy finishing them!
Totally, understand. In terms of break downs, I can start to post those. Again for the personal work its much more whatever for me. But the templates and what not will come when my site gets launched. I swear something better then blog will appear lol. In terms of framing I tend to work based off set rules but again it takes time and it will get better. As far as documenting my work goes, I've done this http://www.visualarium.com/david-lesperance/
and this
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/store/category/289/
But I will start to post more behind the scenes stuff!!!
At the end of the day, everything can be better and will be. Its a growing process. In terms of post work up here its really for fun and to get feedback which is great!.
Thanks again for the kind and harsh words
Dan I miss your smell
i see a huge amount of ambition in your works. i can definitely tell that you are a very dedicated and serious artist with lot of passion to push your skills ahead. your attention to detail and just the massive amount of work that you put into most of your work shows you have lot of patience as well. i can see that you are also experimenting with look development which is a good thing to think of when making any art asset.
you speed is also very good given the amount of work you are showing.
negative(constructive?!@$) feedback :
XYZ made a lot of good point and he was being blunt. he might have been a bit confused with your approach but did make some good points. i personally dont see why that should bother you as an artist. lot of your works seem epic and almost overkill in some way. they lack focus in some areas and lack purpose in others. it almost seems like you skipped over the high level art direction and just dived right into mid level detail and in many areas not spend enough time to finish an asset with final quality. i see you doing post process for look development, while that may be good it could also be a distraction to keep you from not going all the way to a polished asset. while speed is a good thing, it seems you are going for quantity more so than quality. i wont say they quality is bad, in fact far from it but quality could be even better if you slow down and focus on less assets with more polish and time put into it.
summary - inspirational work but may be slow down a bit, focus and go for quality over quantity.
btw, this pieces are your best works i think that shows lot of the positives i mentioned and almost none of the negatives as well.
But when it is, it's awesome!
I'm throughly impressed by the motorcycle
Really like the critique, so much great stuff that relates to a lot of things that I'm starting to realize that I'll have to work on.
Stay cranking awesome and sharing your progress!
http://david-lesperance.squarespace.com/