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WIP - Cathedral Environment

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  • Tigerfeet
    Yes, this is looking very nice :D I can't wait to see it with some textures!
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Thanks for the kind words. I can't wait to start the hi-poly stuff and get some detail in there!
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    I finished blocking out the doorway today. I also changed the base of all of the columns in the main area to an octagon instead of the square, I think it looks better. I will post a screenshot of that area when I have more progress to show. I based the doorway on a pic I found on the net. It was configured for a window, but I liked it for the doorway. I may change the base of the groups of columns to round pedestals, I am not sure if I like the current setup. It looks a little jagged. As always, all crits are welcome.

    Doorway.jpg
  • Alex3d
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    Alex3d polycounter lvl 9
    Dude, you are going at it like a tank! Good job, keep going!
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    So I have been tweaking things that have been bothering me on some of the meshes I already posted pics of. I didn't bother to grab a screen of those. I also started the rose window. I think I will add another arch around the outer ring of trefoils, they don't look complete to me.

    roseWindow.jpg

    Hope to have more soon, my hours at work have not been leaving me much time to work on this.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Given the recent art dumps by Kevin J. and the people that worked on Rage, I am feeling very humble. I wish I had a better update given what else is being posted right now. I thought my forms looked pretty weak on the window, so I bulked everything up. I think the changes look a lot better.

    WindowUpdate.jpg
  • Fnitrox
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    Fnitrox polycounter lvl 6
    it's looking way better than the first wip, good job really!

    shapes are looking much stronger than before and even more elegant
  • Alex3d
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    Alex3d polycounter lvl 9
    Hey man, you are doing great! Don't worry about Kevins, or other pros so much. 3D is like bodybuilding, you get stronger and stronger over time. However, I'd like to see some nicks and chips on your HP models. Keep it up!
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Hey guys, thanks for the comments.

    Alex3d: I wasn't actually worried about the posts, it just made my update seem pretty unsubstantial. I have always admired Kevin's work and am always inspired when I see it. He is a super nice guy and always willing to help others. I am still just blocking everything out and making my base meshes. I have not started sculpting any of the meshes yet. I plan to do significant damage/wear and stonework on all of the pieces. It has actually been very difficult for me to force myself to continue the relatively boring blockout process instead of starting my sculpts. I plan to start sculpting pieces and making more tileable textures very soon.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    I haven't posted an update in a while. I started working on some of my high poly sculpts. Both of these are still WIPs, it is pretty obvious which areas haven't been sculpted yet. I plan to redo the columns on the second image, I was just playing with ideas (thanks Paul S.) before I started sculpting them. All crits are always welcome.

    columnRender1.jpg

    TriarchTest.jpg
  • Alex3d
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    Alex3d polycounter lvl 9
    Looking good! Keep in mind the modular texture advice I gave you when sculpting HP props.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    So, I haven't posted an update in a while. I was tired of posting very small updates, so I am going to post updates as I finish (or get close to finishing) assets. This is the latest asset I have been working on. There was a little too much perspective on the camera when I rendered, so it looks slightly skewed. The bricks are mirrored for processing, so I already know that the damage is symmetrical. I also played with the level of noise on the two lower arches to see which looked and baked out better, that is why they look different. All crits are welcome.

    WindowRender.jpg
  • PixelKitty
    Nice work, the forms look really solid. :) Can't wait to see it all together!
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    So, there are lots of things I need to fix with this shot and it appears that some things were streamed out when I grabbed this shot (I was in a hurry as I ran out the door this morning). I need to make the bricks in the vaults much smaller and do some texture tweaking. This is an in game shot in UDK with just a few quick lights. I haven't posted an update is a long time, so I figured I would throw something up. I am working on this every second I can, so I should have more updates soon.

    EditorShot1.jpg
  • PixelKitty
    It really looks amazing all put together! I really love the details at the top and bottom of the columns!
  • Robbyh
    this feels like oblivion ! they had alot of great stuff there like this. you should realy check that game up.. its cheap to.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Small update with some tweaks. Some of the extra column meshes are placeholder (like the one sticking out of the wall). There are a few seams that I need to paint out of my textures as well. The normal map for my window looks too muddy, so I am rebaking it. The colors looked a little odd in the map, not sure what I did wrong when I baked it the first time.

    UpdateJan4.jpg
  • yubbie
    that's looking fantastic, great job. Some dusty light streaming through those windows would be nice!

    Only minor nitpick is that I think it would benefit from having lighter coloured stone, something more sandy coloured (just my opinion)
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Yubbie, thanks for the feedback. I agree, I will definitely do some environment effects once I get the scene complete. I just did some quick lighting, I will do the real lighting after I get the light source meshes done. I will also play with the colors to get some different looks. Right now the color of the stone is pretty much controlled by the lighting. There is no difference in the diffuse on the stone between the last two shots, I just adjusted the light color. And nitpicking is always fine with me, I am always glad to get people's opinions. :)
  • marq4porsche
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    marq4porsche polycounter lvl 9
    I think you can play with having the cool blue lighting and the current lighting and it would look amazing.
  • Skillmister
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    Skillmister polycounter lvl 11
    cdevens wrote: »
    I haven't posted an update in a while. I started working on some of my high poly sculpts. Both of these are still WIPs, it is pretty obvious which areas haven't been sculpted yet. I plan to redo the columns on the second image, I was just playing with ideas (thanks Paul S.) before I started sculpting them. All crits are always welcome.

    columnRender1.jpg

    TriarchTest.jpg[IMG][/img]

    How have you sculpted the damage and texture for this?
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    marq4porsche: I will definitely keep that in mind when I do my real lighting pass. I love that color combination and my current quick lighting is a little warm.

    Skillmister: I used zbrush to rough the column up. I get the resolution fairly high (normally about 300-500k) on each section as a different subtool. I use the clay brush set to subtract and rough up the edges of each section. This creates a rough beveled edge that picks up in the normal map well. For larger chips on the edges, I put a square alpha (or square alpha with the gradient on one side) on the clay brush and dig into the mesh a little more and make sure it is rough enough so you cant see any of the straight square edges. I then take a couple pictures of stone that have the texture I am looking for and create an alpha with a radial fade. I use the standard brush with a low intensity and use drag rectangle to put the stone texture on. With the radial fade, you can overlap the strokes seamlessly. That is pretty much it. Just decimate each piece and bring it into Max or Xnormal (or whatever program you prefer) to bake.
  • TychoVII
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    TychoVII polycounter lvl 13
    This is looking really nice. There is a couple things I think could spice it up though. I don't know how accurate this would be to the setting, but I almost want to see a couple wooden benches against that back wall. Something to break up the repeating elements while also delivering a sense of scale.

    Looking forward to your environmental effects. I can easily see some god rays pouring through those windows illuminating dust particles in the air. That would really give your atmosphere some volume.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    TychoVII: Thanks for the comments. I am really eager to start putting props into the scene, I am just trying to finish the actual cathedral building first. I do agree though, it needs some props to spice it up. This is only a small portion of the environment, there will be rows of pews up the middle of the cathedral. I don't know if a bench would work in that spot (it might be a little cramped with the columns), but I had planned to make some more decorative meshes to help break up the tiling. I will probably have ornate standing candle holders along the wall as light sources, but after I make the pews, I will play with putting them there. Thanks for the feedback!
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    So here is another update. I have been working on the second floor meshes. It is looking like I am going to have to do some legitimate lighting soon. All of the small columns (the shrunken versions of the large ones on ground level) are placeholder for another one that I haven't baked out yet. I changed UDKs default FOV for this shot, so the column in the foreground on the left looks a little skewed. All crits are welcome.

    UpdateJan10.jpg
  • Endzeit
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    Endzeit polycounter lvl 10
    Hey lookin nice!
    But i got a question about the topology of some of your windows.
    ZannF.jpg

    How did you merge those 2 archs?
    I'm also doing a church but i just can't figure out a clean topology for it.
  • iniside
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    iniside polycounter lvl 6
    It's very simple.
    For all those ornamental/arch element you always use splines.
    You draw first Aach copy it. Attach all togather, weld points, add another splines to make window, attach and weld point, then enable Render In viewport. Profit.
    Assuming you are using 3ds max of course :D.

    edit:
    Sorry for no screenshots, but baking is going on, and hence no way to do any..
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Endzeit: I believe I just made one arch then used a symmetry modifier to make the second and let them overlap just slightly so the edges would weld. I then cleaned up the topology where it was needed (which was minimal) and added a couple of support edges. I am at work now, but I will try to get a screenshot when I go home. That window is just a block in mesh and has almost no detail at the moment.

    Edit: I saw the post above after I typed my response. The above workflow is a very good one. That being said, I don't use splines very often for simple shapes like an arch (I just prefer box modeling type control, I use splines for more complex shapes or for path deformations).
  • Endzeit
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    Endzeit polycounter lvl 10
    Thanks for the quick responses!
    I'm using Blender but i may translate your method iniside.

    @Cdevens: Some pictures would be very nice!
    Looking forward to this :)
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Endzeit: The image below shows how the two arches would be attached. This was just placeholder, so I would do some tweaking on the shape, make all the quads closer in size, split the arch up into different sections for zbrush and sculpt all of the stone. The center section would also get thinned out a little. Just keep the geometry as simple as possible to get the result you want. If you plan to do a sculpting pass, then a small pinch somewhere might not be worth the time to fix if you will never see it or you will be sculpting over it.

    arches.jpg
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    I grabbed a few more shots this morning. The lighting is still terrible and the top row of windows are placeholder. The upper ceiling isn't final either, there will be some other meshes to make it work better together. I replaced some of the placeholder assets and added some others. The meshes below the upper row of windows are coming out way too dark, I will have to trouble shoot those to see what the problem is. Ignore the horrible texture seam on the column in the second picture, I still have to paint out the seam.

    UpdateJan19_03.jpg

    UpdateJan19_02.jpg

    UpdateJan19_01.jpg
  • walkonsky
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    walkonsky polycounter lvl 11
    To me this looks, as if it was coming together really nicely! I like it.
    Would you mind to show a breakdown of your meshes at some point and the grid that you maybe used for those modular pieces? I have started a blockout of a similar church a while ago but I was stuck a little bit during the step to replace my first, very simple modules by a little more elaborate ones with more detail. I think it would help me a lot if you could show yours as an example...
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    walkonsky: I will try to get some shots of the modular assets for you. Earlier in the thread I kinda indicated how the pieces would be broken up. Really, just make sure that your high poly and low poly (realtime mesh) stay on the grid so they can be easily used in the editor. Take a look at some of Kevin Johnstone's tutorials for this. I found them extremely helpful and he is a master at making efficient, reusable pieces.

    Small update today. I started working on some ornate wall sections. I had a busy weekend and didn't get a chance to do much work. I still have to add the top section to this, then bring it into zbrush. I haven't decided if I want to make this stone or make it wood and use it in the altar area. Thoughts?

    PanelWIP.jpg
  • ysalex
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    ysalex interpolator
    It's looking very nice. The texture seems very uniform all over in terms of diffuse. I suppose you can defeat this with some nice lighting and maybe a bit of vertex painting, and maybe a broken hero pillar or something.

    Anyway though keep up the good work.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    ysalex: Thanks for the comments. I intend to do some vertex painting after I get things a little more finished. I also plan to break up the monotony with some props/decorations. I used the same source images to make all my textures to keep things consistent, so I agree that it needs to be broken up. I plan on doing a damaged area up near the altar as well.

    Another small update. I started making a gargoyle in zbrush. I don't do characters, so this was a little outside of my comfort zone. It is supposed to have a weathered stone look. Honest comments are much appreciated, I can take it. :)

    gargoyle.jpg
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    I have been all over the place making different pieces for different high poly assets. I tweaked the gargoyle face a little and made some facial expressions. Hopefully I should have something worthwhile to show soon.

    gargoyleexpressions.jpg
  • xXm0RpH3usXx
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    xXm0RpH3usXx polycounter lvl 13
    i like the secon one most, followed by the fourth.

    those two have the most definition
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    xXm0RpH3usXx: Thanks for the response. So by second and fourth, you mean the two on the right? Not sure how you are numbering them (ie, up/down, left/right).
  • Joshflighter
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    Joshflighter polycounter lvl 9
    Yea, I think that's what he means, and I agree with him. The other ones have a silly look to them, because of how you shaped the mouths. =p

    Best of luck to you with this scene man, its turning out great!
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Joshflighter: Thanks for the feedback. I looked at a lot of ref for different gargoyles and there were lots of them with goofy expressions. So, the two on the left were supposed to be goofy and the two on the right more angry/scary. Thanks for the opinion, I was leaning towards the angry ones, so you and xXm0RpH3usXx made this a fairly easy decision.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Its been a while since I posted any updates on this, though I have been working on it. Here are a couple quick shots I grabbed this morning. I am working on the lighting while I finish meshing this, so these shots are a little dark. I still have a couple seams to paint out and textures to finish, but I plan to finish this by this weekend.

    screenshot3.jpg

    screenshot2.jpg

    As always, all crits are welcome.
  • Samfisher84
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    Samfisher84 polycounter lvl 9
    wow this is turning out amazing! keep it up
  • xXm0RpH3usXx
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    xXm0RpH3usXx polycounter lvl 13
    the tiling of the wall behind the door is very obvious...
    also you maybe want to try emphasizing on the light of the chandelier, rather than the diffuse backlight?
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Samfisher84: Thanks!

    xXm0RpH3usXx: Thanks for the feedback. I tweaked the lighting over the weekend and painted out a lots of texture seams. I think the tiling is less noticeable on the front wall now. You can still see it some, but I made some tapestries this morning which will help break it up more.

    I still have a few props to make and a few textures to tweak (the top of the gargoyle support needs to be finished). I need to adjust the colors on the carpet, I am trying to come up with a good color palette for the rug and tapestries. I tried to add some depth to the foils on the back wall by adding a drop shadow where the hole is, but I don't think it is really selling any depth so I need to tweak those somehow. These screenshots look really dark on some monitors and look ok on others, the lighting still needs to be finalized. All crits are welcome.

    Screen1.jpg

    Screen6.jpg

    Screen5.jpg

    Screen2.jpg

    Screen3.jpg
  • xXm0RpH3usXx
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    xXm0RpH3usXx polycounter lvl 13
    i did a quick paintover :$
    its not pretty, but should get my point across better (do bare in mind, i am no good at drawing and did not want to spend too much time)

    wipcathedralpaintover.jpg

    also, all of your materials are the same, try getting more material diversity into it.
    there is a pattern on the pillars, which is yellowish, but it looks painted, not like gold. your benches could use a metal trim and your chandeliers arent reflecting either.

    your overall dirt is too evenly ditributed, aswell.

    just my opinion, though... i like it very much, else i wouldnt have posted, so please do not be mad :)
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    xXm0RpH3usXx: Thanks for the feedback. Don't worry, I appreciate feedback and don't get mad about it. I agree with your comments about the materials, I still have to tweak several of them (especially the spec maps for the metal parts). I have light shafts being rendered in game, but when I take tiledshots, they don't render. I am going to try to figure out why they aren't showing up. I had more bloom in the scene too, but it was causing a weird bloom effect on the edge of the screen so I turned it off. I will try to sort out these issues to make the scene better before I call this done. Thanks for taking the time to give feedback and do a paintover.
  • Necroburn
    Can you explain how you got the design of the main window to array around the center? In my class we use maya and i don't know how to get things to become circular like that. I would LOVE to make some amazing circular designed windows like the one you've got here.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Necroburn: It is pretty easy to do. Just make whatever you want to duplicate around and place your pivot point in the location that you want the objects to rotate around. For mine, it was duped around a ring, so I just centered the pivot of my object to duplicate to the center of the ring. Then go to tools>array and fill out the Rotate degrees blank on the axis you want to use (in this case it was the Y axis). You need to set the number of copies you want too. You will need to do some simple math to figure out the numbers to use. ie. If you want 10 dupes then 360/10 = 36, so 36 is the number of degrees to rotate and you want 10 copies. I use Max and haven't used Maya in a few years, but the array tools are pretty much the same, it may be under a different menu though. Hope this helps.
  • Necroburn
    i'm sure it's there somewhere, but I can't find it. I don't know what section to look under, polygons, animation, surfaces, etc.
  • cdevens
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    cdevens polycounter lvl 7
    Check edit>duplicate special.
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