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is 12gb ram unnecessary?

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polycounter lvl 13
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aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
Hey,
So I currently have 4gb ram and I was thinking of getting an additional 8gb ram...I have 4 more slots on my Mobo and I was wondering if I should go for 12gb ram or go for just 8gb ram? Would I see a huge difference or any difference between 8-12gb?

Thanks

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  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    You can never have enough RAM, honestly. The more memory you have, the easier it will be for your computer to handle high polygon counts. I believe the artists at Epic have 12gb.
  • WarrenM
    I have 12 at home and I love it. I would get more if I could. I can have everything open and loaded that I want to when working on stuff (UDK, Max, Mudbox, Photoshop, etc). It's nice to not have to think about memory limits.
  • Jeremy Wright
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    Jeremy Wright polycounter lvl 17
    Depends on what you want to do. Are you working with large video files, textures, particle system calculations that need to be held in RAM? You may see a better performance increase with a SSD or better GPU as opposed to more RAM.

    Also, can you be more specific as to how many RAM slots you have total, dual or triple channel (I don't understand how you have 4 free slots), and the RAM speed/timings?
  • aajohnny
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I've had 8 gigs for the last 2 years, I often over around 6 gig usages between games and 3D projects.
  • Mark Dygert
    I'm running 12gb at home, I didn't see much of a difference between 8gb and 12gb. The biggest boost in performance for me was a SSD drive. Apps like Zbrush still cap out at 4gb if I remember correctly.

    That doesn't mean having 12gb available won't be helpful, because it will you can have other apps open and they won't be beating each other up trying to get a slot in the ram. Just know some apps aren't going to use it all, but if you're using a few apps you will more than likely utilize it.

    I would also throw out all the ram you already have and buy all 12gb from the same manufacture at the same time.
  • Jeremy Wright
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    Jeremy Wright polycounter lvl 17
    My Mobo is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-641-_-Product and my ram is dual channel

    Nope. Your RAM is triple channel. You need to be using sets of 3 RAM sticks. It's best if all of the RAM is of the same speed, voltage, timing, etc.

    You may encounter problems if you try to add 4 more sticks that don't match what you already have.

    Whether you decide to go to 12GB or not, you should see about finding a matching 2GB RAM stick to the 2x2GB you have now or replacing them with a faster triple channel set.
  • Joshua Stubbles
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    Joshua Stubbles polycounter lvl 19
    More memory = more capabilities in ZBrush, Photoshop or any other app you use. Before I upgraded my PC recently, I had 3GB of ram and that was shit. I could work with Photoshop and Max open for about 2-3hrs before having to shut them down and re-log my windows profile. Forget about trying to run UDK at the same time.

    I'm upgraded to 8GB of high perf ram now and it's completely night and day by comparison. I can have Photoshop, Max, Zbrush, UDK and several other apps open all day long and not have any slow downs. I can work on my larger multi-layer 4096 textures without any lag or stuttering in Photoshop. It really is quite amazing what the ram itself does.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    personally I believe 2-3gigs is still kinda the standard for normal users, its hard to really use 12 gigs, 8/9 gigs should be more than enough for most people.
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    Hey guys, Zbrush has a Cap for 4gb, so don't expect you will be using more than that. Read the official forums.

    If you are using Zbrush only, with 6-8gb are enough, for the app, the os, and other apps requiring less than 3gb of memory.

    8gb ddr3 1600mhz are now by 80 euros here. I have been using a workstation with 16 gb for years (around 4), and with the cheap prices in memories, i builded a new computer recently with 16 gb aswell. That thing of working with Max, modo, Zbrush, Photoshop, etc. has no price.

    If you are going to mount more modules, buy the same modules.
  • JacqueChoi
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    JacqueChoi polycounter
    I don't know.

    Maybe it's the way I segment most of my designs, but I hardly ever go over 2 million polygons for any SubTool in Zbrush. Seems like a bit of a waste of effort IMHO. Pore details hardly ever bake out in a Normal Map, and there comes a point where Microdetails will just work better in nDo.


    :/


    My AO bakes take the most time, and I hadn't seen much of a difference between 6 and 8 gigs.
  • gsokol
    12gb is a little bit of overkill...unless you are going to have a lot of programs open at once. Most (if not all) Windows applications have can use a max of 4GB (Zbrush and After Effects for sure)...so all you are really gaining is the ability to have more programs open at once with less trouble.

    I have 8gb and I'm perfectly happy with that.
  • Will Faucher
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    Will Faucher polycounter lvl 12
    I think having more ram would be nice for Max especially. Loading in high poly models and applying modifiers like Bend or FFD, Twist, etc, all take a LOT of memory if the polycount is high. Look at Kevin Johnstone's work. Yes, he sculpted his stuff in Zbrush, but I specifically remember him saying that he used bend modifiers on his high-rez meshes to get the dome shaped things done.
  • Mike Yevin
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    Mike Yevin polycounter lvl 11
    i wouldnt go with anything over 8, save the money for an ssd
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    People never sculpted or used photoshop before the 64bit os days, it's unheard of.
  • Firebert
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    Firebert polycounter lvl 15
    i want an antigravity office chair :(
  • seth.
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    seth. polycounter lvl 14
    I had one....but my lousy gravity based desk spoilt the experience
  • Swizzle
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    Swizzle polycounter lvl 15
    perna wrote: »
    The more the better. I am using 238GB of ram and literally everything is realtime, even highly complex vray renders that used to take hours. Normal map renders are usually done before I click the button, which can be confusing sometimes, especially as if I don't remember to click the button afterwards, the computer crashes. 238GB of ram even enabled me to install MS Office 2096; it comes with an anti-gravity office chair, unless you get the OEM version.

    Until I read that last sentence, I almost thought you were completely serious. I was going "Is he using a render farm or something? Yeesh." I don't think I got enough sleep last night.

    Anyway. I have 8GB and an SSD in my desktop and it's an absolute dream to use. The RAM is nice, but the SSD is what just kicks the entire thing into overdrive and makes the whole experience that much sweeter. I can now launch Max 2010 in about five seconds as opposed to the minute plus it took on my previous machine (and that thing was no slouch). With the combination of RAM and SSD, I can now open Photoshop, Mudbox, Max and any other programs in a fraction of the time and I can usually jump between them with zero lag or other problems.
  • Autocon
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    Autocon polycounter lvl 15
    I have 4gigs at home which was sufficent for the things I needed to do in college. Havent upgraded yet but thats because I spend most of my free time I would devote to modeling at work :) Of course with the occasionally little home project to stay on my toes with things Im not doing at work.

    At work I have 16gigs and love it.
  • InMOP
    I haven't seen much of an increase from 4gb to 8gb but the best thing I did was buy an ssd.
    the Increase in performance is like night and day, everything opens super fast.

    if you don't have an SSD I would recommend getting that over the upgrade in RAM.
  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    Just while we are on the subject. I just ordered a new rig.

    I ordered 8gb (4x2gb sticks) at 1600MHz. paying a little extra for the 1600MHz.

    whats the difference between 1333MHz and 1600MHz...is it faster?

    also. Is it better to get 2x4gb sticks when dealing with software that uses large chunks of RAM. i.e. keeping 1 process on 1 stick rather than spread across a few sticks. If you get my meaning.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    I don't have enough money for an ssd and I am unsure of what ram I even have to be honest:

    Spec.jpg

    there are my specs I want to add more ram at least so I can play games as well without a problem and I did think of having 12gb for future purposes but I am so unknowable about building pc's my older brother built this one and I bought it from him. Can someone help me pick out a set of sticks of ram?

    I think I have these :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277 all I know is I have 4gb ram with 2 sticks of Gskill red ram.

    I am thinking of getting these, would I have to scrap the ones ? or can I include these?
  • eld
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    eld polycounter lvl 18
    yeah exactly, especially with a gaming market currently aimed at platforms that will roughly use 256mb as ram.

    And the fact that most games are still 32bit, meaning 2gb limit.

    Working smart and efficient will save you more than just memory.

    Stinger, it really doesn't matter what size of stick you use in the end, and you'll only gain benefits from memory timings and speed if you know what they actually do.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    I think im going for 8gb ram and I dont have the docs anymore
  • 3DLee
    I would say that 8GB is the sweet spot for now. If you really want to see an improvement, I would overclock that i7 930. With a $70 Corsair H50 cooler I took my i7 930 to 3.5ghz with only a little trial and error, and I'm planning on taking it to 4ghz later on.
  • Entity
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    Entity polycounter lvl 18
    Anything above 8gb's is usually overkill unless you work in film/vfx, in which case 12gb's just ain't enough :D
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    I just bought a corsair h70 liquid cooler so thats good... I just wanna upgrade to 8gb then idk what sticks to get lol
  • RexM
    12 GB of RAM is a great idea.

    That way, you can keep all programs in your workflow open during your entire art process without having to worry about RAM.

    Even if you don't need all 12 GB for all your programs, you can setup what is called a RAM disk and put paging files onto the left-over RAM to speed up undo and redo.

    However, I agree that the biggest speed increases are going to come from a SSD.
  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    i've got 12 gigs in my machine. to be honest i seem to run out of resources on my video card a long time before hitting a RAM bottleneck. so, having all those 3d apps open with scenes loaded and the system still responsive remains pretty much a pipe dream for me.
  • BadgerBaiter
    I am going to be putting 12Gb into my new build just to be on the safe side.... however another 12Gb is just within grasp as well.. so I may just whack in 24Gb and not worry for several years :p
  • greevar
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    greevar polycounter lvl 6
    3DLee wrote: »
    I would say that 8GB is the sweet spot for now. If you really want to see an improvement, I would overclock that i7 930. With a $70 Corsair H50 cooler I took my i7 930 to 3.5ghz with only a little trial and error, and I'm planning on taking it to 4ghz later on.

    I wouldn't do overclocking on the machine you do your work on unless it came from a builder overclocked with a warranty.

    As far as the RAM goes, you can do 1600Mhz with your current mobo. A low latency RAM stick will be faster during a lot of read/write operations. To get the triple channel, you'll have to go with 6 or 12 GB configurations. Newegg has two kits that are 1600Mhz, triple channel, 6GB, and a 6 nanosecond CAS. One has a 24 cycle tRAS and the other has a 20 cycle tRAS. With the 20 cycle stick, you're getting the fastest your machine can without OC. I would suggest the 24 cycle stick though because it's $30 cheaper for 6GB and $60 cheaper for 12GB ($100 for the 6GB and $200 for the 12GB).

    I second Rex's suggestion for a RAM disk. It's even faster than an SSD, but don't use it to store vital data, it goes poof when the power goes out.
  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    eld wrote: »
    Stinger, it really doesn't matter what size of stick you use in the end, and you'll only gain benefits from memory timings and speed if you know what they actually do.

    Ah. I see what you mean. Just googling about with "i5 ram mhz 1333 or 1600"

    i5 and i7 memory controllers run at 1333 anyway. So unless you overclock, 1600 is pointless. I might overclock it do at some point though. So paying the extra couple of quid is no biggy.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    8GB of ram is fine but get 12GB if you think you need it. I would have stuck with 8GB but my mobo is triple channel so it was the only option after my PC initially had 6GB
  • RexM
    perna wrote: »
    How do you get that to add up when paging files are only used when you run out of RAM in the first place?

    Pretty sure paging files are used even when RAM isn't all the way full, but I might be thinking of the Windows swap file though; which would benefit from being on a RAM disk as well.

    RAM disks also make it so you can use more than 4 GB's of RAM on a 32 bit machine.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    RexM wrote: »
    Pretty sure paging files are used even when RAM isn't all the way full, but I might be thinking of the Windows swap file though; which would benefit from being on a RAM disk as well.

    RAM disks also make it so you can use more than 4 GB's of RAM on a 32 bit machine.
    IIRC, the paging file is only used when there isnt enough space on the RAM to store the information that is needed. Its only used as a last resort because its much slower then RAM and thus kills performance.

    So you are correct that it can be used when there still is RAM available, but only when there is insufficient space :)
  • Lamont
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    Lamont polycounter lvl 15
    More the better. No such thing as overkill. Photoshop and Maya are ram eating pigs. I noticed working on high detailed normal maps with nDo PS will just devour ram.
  • Jeremy Wright
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    Jeremy Wright polycounter lvl 17
    Also, for the second time, your mob RAM is triple channel. You need to buy in sets of three. 8GB is not an option.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    perna wrote: »
    You say you don't much about building computers and you go ahead and buy liquid cooling gear. What for?

    My cpu gets a bit hott and my friend said I should hes installing all these pieces for me
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    aajohnny wrote: »
    You say you don't much about building computers and you go ahead and buy liquid cooling gear. What for?

    My cpu gets a bit hott and my friend said I should hes installing all these pieces for me

    How hot?
    50c is a normal temp for i7 CPU's and the max temp is around 100, so you really have nothing to worry about.
    Mine runs at 45-55c when idle and 70-80c when under load. (i7 950)
    I used too use liquid cooling and with the advances with air cooling, trust me when i say that it isnt worth it. Just get a good after market air cooler and you will be fine.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    How hot?
    50c is a normal temp for i7 CPU's and the max temp is around 100, so you really have nothing to worry about.
    Mine runs at 45-55c when idle and 70-80c when under load. (i7 950)
    I used too use liquid cooling and with the advances with air cooling, trust me when i say that it isnt worth it. Just get a good after market air cooler and you will be fine.

    I already bought it though, will it be fine with it though?
  • Blaizer
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    Blaizer interpolator
    i'm getting 24-35ºC with a i7 2600k @ 3.8ghz with a noctua cooler (running videos, music, web browser, photoshop and modo).

    With a good cpu cooler you can low a few ºC, but those temps are normal. My ati 5770 reaches almost 70ºC in extreme games.

    The heat can be a serious problem in summer if you don't have AC. Where i live we reach 47ºC so easily, and working with a computer is like to work in the hell.

    Less Heat, less noise is always great.
  • Makkon
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    Makkon polycounter
    I LIKE MY 12 GIGS, YOU SHUTUP.

    Took forever to find a mobo and RAM that were compatible. :(
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    I always like playing it safe, I really appreciate everyones help here.
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    aajohnny wrote: »
    I already bought it though, will it be fine with it though?
    Its fine but they can be a little high maintenance. Just make sure you keep the reservoir filled with a decent cooling fluid.
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    Its fine but they can be a little high maintenance. Just make sure you keep the reservoir filled with a decent cooling fluid.

    How often do I have to refill?
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    aajohnny wrote: »
    How often do I have to refill?

    Just whenever it needs it really :)
    Just make sure its always full
  • aajohnny
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    aajohnny polycounter lvl 13
    danggg I didn't know they were like that :/ what if they run out would it turn into a normal fan?
  • metalliandy
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    metalliandy interpolator
    aajohnny wrote: »
    danggg I didn't know they were like that :/ what if they run out would it turn into a normal fan?
    Worst case senario is that if they run out of liquid then the pump would seize and the cooling system would fail.
    You would then have to get a new pump, drain the system, replace the pump and refill.
    The pumps are not designed to run with any air in the system, so just try to keep it topped up.

    I used to check mine every couple of weeks. It wont actually damage your system (CPU etc.) if the cooling failed as everything would shut off before it got hot enough to do real damage.
    Also if the pump fails, the time scale to fix it would be dependent on how fast you could get a new pump...They are not a stock item that regular PC stores carry in stock
  • greevar
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    greevar polycounter lvl 6
    If you can, return the H70 and just get a really good air cooler like a Noctua. Those all-in-one liquid coolers are a joke and in most cases perform worse than a good air cooler.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Seriously, send that watercooling thing back. Most of the "computer-expert-friends" actually don't really what they are talking about (knowing and putting together computer components is actually a job in itself...). The simple fact that he recommended that water thing to you without mentioning the possible annoyances tells a lot!

    And get a SSD.
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