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EPIC Sword

polycounter lvl 11
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Darkmaster polycounter lvl 11
Here's a WoW style sword that I've been working on. This is a concept from a weapon in Lich King, so I kinda went with the icy blue color scheme.

The model weighs in at 376 polys which I know is high for WoW, but other than the polycount I wanna know what is working and what is not working. Thanks everyone!runeblade.jpg

Replies

  • Taylor Hood
    Wireframe shot please.
    Also, the experienced 3D Artists here will be the judges of what is 'EPIC' and what isn't ;D
  • edoran89
    the skull at the end looks like a leggo man skull got glued on to me

    i like the runes and the blue
  • Bakayoukai
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    Bakayoukai polycounter lvl 8
    you should model the sword of a thousand truths!
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    If you went by a reference of some kind, could you post the reference as well?
  • Darkmaster
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    Darkmaster polycounter lvl 11
    Sorry, should have put these up first!runebladewire.jpgrunebladeconcept.jpg
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    Hey, decent try but I suggest modeling over the concept to match it better, when you're working off of a concept the goal should be to match it as closely as possible! You'll will have to redo the UVs and the texture but that's the best way to learn
    swordoverlay.jpg
  • Mike Yevin
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    Mike Yevin polycounter lvl 11
    Yeah, even without the paint over I could tell there were major issues with accuracy. Plus I would put some more love into that diffuse texture, and possibly even add a specular map as well.
  • KyleJensen
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    KyleJensen polycounter lvl 12
    I think an emissive map would be cool for the symbols on the blade. Many MMORPGS have glowing weapons, so I think it would be appropriate.
  • Darkmaster
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    Darkmaster polycounter lvl 11
    K thank you everyone I really appreciate the feedback I've got a lot of stuff to do! Does anyone have a link to a good tutorial on spec maps? Also, for a game like WoW or any handpainted style game would there be spec maps on props like this? I know that normal maps are non-existent, but what are the limitation on games that take the handpainted approach?
  • Taylor Hood
    I think that the blade is decently textured, although not accurate to the concept art.
    The bottom half is suffering though.
    I agree with the emissive maps.

    Would your name be from the Warhammer Fantasy universe? "Belakor the Dark Master" ? :D
  • Darkmaster
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    Darkmaster polycounter lvl 11
    So! I made some serious changes here guys. By popular demand, I removed the blades that were at the base of the blade. Also, I trimmed down the polys to get it under 300, which seems legitimate for a game like WoW (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG!!!!!). Also, I have added the emissive and spec maps that everyone has pointed out. Hopefully I am on the right track here! Once again, all thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated!polycount.jpg
  • BlvdNights
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    BlvdNights polycounter lvl 8
    Not quiet epic....needs a lot more work overall.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    the proportions are still off.
  • Joopson
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    Joopson quad damage
    Also, make the runes yourself; you just used the "Daedric" font from oblivion.
    Which are probably copyrighted images, though I could be wrong.
    Either way, I recognized them instantly and it ruined it for me.
  • Rurouni Strife
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    Rurouni Strife polycounter lvl 10
    If you intentionally going for such a low poly, than I suppose that's ok. But what is most lacking to me is the character of the blade. In the concept, the top of the hilt is jagged and has what appear to be teeth going up the sword. The small stones/rivets/circular indentations are missing. The face looking thing at the top of the blade is missing.

    If you are going for a low poly count, try baking this extra detail into a texture and make some modifications to avoid any transparency/normal maps if that's a requirement/choice. I feel that you could make the sword do the concept justice even in a low poly setting, but it needs more work. That's what's standing out here, the lack of character that is in the ref.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    You must match the concept, when doing a fan piece your only option is to meet or exceed the quality of the original. Here's a paint over reiterating my post from earlier today
    swordpaintover.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Nice paint over Justin, looks 10x better.
  • Gannon
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    Gannon interpolator
    What's the average polycount of a WoW weapon? 300 sounds really low for an end game weapon.
  • Two Listen
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    Two Listen polycount sponsor
    Going to echo Joopson, get rid of the Daedric font used for runes and make your own. They're very recognizable as something you didn't make, especially when you're using the "O" (the letter that happens to be really huge on every copy of Oblivion you'll find in stores) right in the middle of the weapon. Also, sure those characters look like generic "magical rune type things", but they're also letters. Unless the "AOW" means something, time to make some new ones.
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina interpolator
    rdmlegend wrote: »
    What's the average polycount of a WoW weapon? 300 sounds really low for an end game weapon.

    for what i know (at least if i recall right) the characters had something like 1200tris and the new characters like draenei are around 1.9k or something

    so i guess weapons wont have sooo much detail in the lowpoly, but its just my guess
  • Darkmaster
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    Darkmaster polycounter lvl 11
    Alright. So! Went back to the drawing board pretty much. Kept some stuff, got rid of some other stuff, changed proportions, the works. I scrapped the old runes and got some straight from WoW. I really liked how the details came out on the blade, however, so I kept those. NEW UNWRAP. NEW MAPS. NEW PROPORTIONS. Thank you everyone that has been keeping up on this thread, I really appreciate the critiques! Enjoy, and please don't hesitate to throw your two cents in!polycount1.jpg
  • Highelf
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    Highelf polycounter lvl 11
    The skull still looks very odd, more silly than threathening. Need bigger eyes, and a few more polygons to define the shape of the head and the cheekbones.

    Overall - don't be afraid to go wild on the texture, you are seeming to be very conservative and tidy, while that will take away from the "epic" factor.
  • haikai
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    haikai polycounter lvl 8
    The model is looking better, but it could use some more character to how it's shaped. I would avoid long, perfectly parallel edges even if it looks like that in the concept. Widen the extremes, don't have all the spikes be exactly the same length, etc. If you're concerned about the poly count then I would recommend getting rid of the little bolts and the small extrusions on the hilt. You could also get rid of those "teeth" that are resting on the base of the blade and just reshape the blade itself to represent both. Almost all of this stuff can be faked through painting.

    The texture looks very flat at the moment... it's a decent base, but you should paint in more lighting and shadows. If you keep things flat and simplistic then it looks like a plastic toy. Try to add more variation across the surface, like subtle gradients and vary the color temperatures in transitions between dark and light. Basically anything you can think of that will help give the impression of its scale and usage.

    Forget for a moment that this is a 3d model and just think of how you would improve the image from a 2d stand point. Take a screenshot of a high end weapon from WoW and look at all the details: the scratches and dents, the bright highlights and the dark corners. That stuff is all painted on the texture, and should be on yours as well.

    A specular map would help, but you should be able to get this to be 90% of the way there without it. Look at the model in your 3d app with only textures on and no shading- if it looks great in this situation then you're on the right track. 512 is probably a bit much for a WoW weapon, to be honest... I mean, I think the entire character models themselves are probably 512, and that's only with all the gear on and stuff.
  • Darkmaster
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    Darkmaster polycounter lvl 11
    Here is my final version with a lot of new fixes. Textures have been tightened, maps cleaned up, and overall it is finally looking a lot better (in my opinion...). Let me know what you all think! And thanks again for all the feedback!swordspread.jpg
  • Sukotto
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    Sukotto polycounter lvl 8
    Hmm, you're still missing the skull face at the end of the blade.

    I'm also not a huge fan of the orange, I would either tone it way down or change it to grey and make it look metal. Also, the spikes on the hilt look like crystals while in the concept they look like metal spikes. I'd suggest changing that
  • Klumpmeister
    The hilt to me looks a little too new. From my experience with World Of Warcraft, Death Knights have worn weapons and such. Everything looks great!
  • Em.
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    Em. polycounter lvl 17
    Yeah, still not really hitting the mark here man. The runes don't feel glowing or hot, the sword lacks any edge wear, there's no color variation on the metal and it definitely needs a spec map. I can tell you've done some revisions, but it's still lacking the extra push to make it an epic WoW sword. Have you looked up reference of other two-handed swords from WotLK? It would help you with the material definition and color scheme.
    Here's a few I googled:
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/static/img/screenshots/541.jpg
    http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/news/2008/december/Sword_2H_Ulduar_D_01Blue.jpg
    And of course, Frostmourne: http://www.wowwiki.com/Frostmourne

    It would also be a good idea for you to snag the WoW model viewer to check out the models up close and personal, rotate around them, look at how the details are painted and see the spec and emissive maps and effects in action. You got a lot of good advice in here, now run with it and finish it right, good luck.
    Model Viewer:
    http://www.wowmodelviewer.org/forum/index.php?topic=5135.0
  • Raider
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    Raider polycounter lvl 9
    It still isn't the same as the reference. What's the point of using a ref if you're not going to follow it? Also the textures still look like it's a first pass, honestly I wouldn't call this done.

    Pretty much all of what Em said is true.
  • snow
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    snow polycounter lvl 8
    Keep at it! I'm not really sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I think your problem is you're letting your AO do all the work. I've done a real quick paintover, doing my own highlights and shadows with a set light source. I just picked brighter/darker colours and added them myself. I'm not sure what the things on the side are otherwise I would have adjusted them.

    Also add some dents in there to give it some character. I'd also change the orange base colour to something nicer, maybe a dark/greyish purple base - but that's just me.

    swordpaintover.jpg
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    its missing some asymmetry (skull and 1 broken spike) and needs a thicker handle.
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