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Polycount Pro/Am

TrevorJ
polycounter lvl 9
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TrevorJ polycounter lvl 9
Hey PC,

So this idea came to me during the Darksiders Contest. Been stewing with it for a bit. Has Polycount ever held, or already talked about holding some kind of Pro/Am collaboration Contest? If anyone is unclear on the concept of a Pro/Am tournament in sport, it's basically when professional athletes get paired with amateurs and play a game, golf,basketball, ext. I thought that this could be an excellent contest idea, obviously more so for amateurs/aspiring artists/students. However it could be an excellent opportunity for some hardcore community building and career relationship kickstarting.

This thread is just to discuss the idea. There are some obvious problems that have already come up for me that would need to be resolved first.


- Picking teams

Always an issue, with anything.. ever. I'm not sure how this should be handled. Be it through individuals picking on their own. People throwing in their names and random draws.(meh) or Pros picking their amateur partner based on the amateurs portfolio? I dunno, that's what the disccusion is for. Obviously no one wants to pair with someone that will hold them back or someone that they might not get along with. A solution with the least amount of butt-hurt for all involved is needed.

- Disciplines

I think this contest could lend itself well to both character artists and environment artists. Character teams could build a duo that fit with each other(Mario and Luigi, Ken and Ryu). Environments would work just like other team environment contests with two people working on a single environment piece.

- Whats Considered Pro?

To me it's anyone who's paid to do stuff that they'd be doing in the contest. I guess this could be up for debate for some people. The point of this contest is for some newbies to learn some things, and for the pros to get a nice piece for their portfolio and get some practice teaching people. Some say teaching somebody a skill is the best way to master that skill.(Others say those who cant "do" teach, but whatever.. f that.)

So yeah, your thoughts, for or against, concerns, questions.

Replies

  • Selaznog
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    Selaznog polycounter lvl 8
    I think this is a great idea! Sorry I don't really have any input, but I'd be down for this.
  • Ghostscape
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    Ghostscape polycounter lvl 13
    It sounds interesting but pairing pros and amateurs in a way that actually leads to two finished assets seems rather difficult.
  • biofrost
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    biofrost polycounter lvl 12
    I would be up for this!
  • Talbot
    That would be pretty sick. I'm down.
  • yodude87
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    yodude87 polycounter lvl 5
    would be cool, but kinda complicated. im down, but gotta see how to communicate between couples, how to pair, themes, etc. we should create an msn group of sorts to discuss this i guess.
  • uncle
    As long as I'm paired with hazardous I lock myself in basement and get on with it.
  • yodude87
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    yodude87 polycounter lvl 5
    uncle wrote: »
    As long as I'm paired with hazardous I lock myself in basement and get on with it.

    hahahahah i laughed loud here xD
  • Stinger88
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    Stinger88 polycounter
    Awesome idea...but

    Polycount doesn't have a great track record for collaborative style competitions or projects. Anything involving teams where people have to rely on someone else generally fails. It's a shame because with all the talent here polycount could quite easily release a AAA game title (with a bit of code help) if everyone chipped in. As it is though most polycounters are here to work on their own thing and hang out, which is cool. I'm one of those guys.

    Only comps that work here are ones in which artists can work alone. Sad but true...imo.
  • yodude87
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    yodude87 polycounter lvl 5
    Stinger88 wrote: »
    Awesome idea...but

    Polycount doesn't have a great track record for collaborative style competitions or projects. Anything involving teams where people have to rely on someone else generally fails. It's a shame because with all the talent here polycount could quite easily release a AAA game title (with a bit of code help) if everyone chipped in. As it is though most polycounters are here to work on their own thing and hang out, which is cool. I'm one of those guys.

    Only comps that work here are ones in which artists can work alone. Sad but true...imo.

    QFT, sadly. and indeed would be a godawesome idea to dev a game made only by polycount peeps.
  • leilei
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    leilei polycounter lvl 14
    Stinger88 wrote: »
    Polycount doesn't have a great track record for collaborative style competitions or projects.

    Were you there in the player SDK skinning glory days?
  • Ghostscape
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    Ghostscape polycounter lvl 13
    leilei wrote: »
    Were you there in the player SDK skinning glory days?

    Getting two people together to work on a project with a specific deadline is much harder than the sdks, which were basically a bunch of individual projects sharing a basemesh that was also developed without a due date at a specific time.

    This sort of Pro-Am thing relies on both parties having free time for the duration, the desire and chemistry to work together and provide and act on feedback, ability on both parts to both make art and provide actionable feedback, and continuing motivation.
  • Selaznog
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    Selaznog polycounter lvl 8
    Hm, kind of agreeing with other people here actually. I can't imagine having time to do this even after I graduate, as I would probably be working on better stuff for my demo reel :(
  • Cheathem
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    Cheathem polycounter lvl 6
    what if everyone posted : PRO or AM and then we would make a list of all the pros,and a list of all the amateurs.then randomly make matches?
    On another note,i think this game idea of yours is awesome.its a great way to make some new friends and it would be interesting to see the outcome of it all.
  • ScudzAlmighty
    Like the idea, but as has been said Polycount doesn't play well with others

    In fact have ANY of the civil war threads made it to the end?
  • Valandar
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    Valandar polycounter lvl 18
    There's also the definition of "Pro". We gonna be strict, and say that if you have ever done 3D work for pay you're a pro? Or will it be loose, and only count if you have done the TYPE of 3D work you're entering in for pay (for example, a character artist who has never done environments for work would be a Pro for characters, but Amateur for environments) ?
  • Cheathem
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    Cheathem polycounter lvl 6
    i think we should use the persons skill to determine if theyre pro or not.
    and people should be smart enough to honestly say if they are skilled.
    I would say,if you can make assets at a quality close to that in say cod:world at war,then i would consider that pro enough.But thats just my opinion d:
  • xrg
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    xrg polycounter lvl 10
    I clicked this thread expecting something to do with the NES Game RC Pro-Am. :/
  • Avanthera
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    Avanthera polycounter lvl 10
    Just saying, I'm sure a ton of the 'am' guys would love to work hard and get better on these kinds of projects, but a lot of industry folk are pretty busy with actual work. It's kind of a common thing. :)
  • chadabees
    xrg wrote: »
    I clicked this thread expecting something to do with the NES Game RC Pro-Am. :/

    :D
  • alphajayel
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    alphajayel polycounter lvl 6
    Great Idea!

    Count me in, I'm an amateur and am willing to collaborate with Anyone, Pro or not. Whatever happens, I'm sure it's gonna be interesting! :D
  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 18
    Offering a prize tends to get people to be more inclined to see these sorts of things through to the end. Getting a few more of those Greentooth globes printed up would be enough, I'd think.

    What I'm wondering is how the collaboration would actually work. I mean on environments there's plenty of work to that can be relatively easily divvied up, but how do you share a character? How do you avoid the more experienced artist dominating? If they're paired with someone with less developed skills, they're naturally going to want to at least touch up everything so it looks suitably pretty beside their own work.

    There's a kernel of a really good idea here, I think, but it needs some further development.
  • TrevorJ
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    TrevorJ polycounter lvl 9
    You guys bring up many of the points that I was pondering as well.

    Jackablade: Yeah I think environments are easy to understand. What I pitched earlier or character artists would be that each member would work on a single character that would be part of a duo that would go hand in hand with the others, art-style/themes/universe.

    The core idea for the contest, for me any ways, would be very much in the same vain as the Polycount College or any type of mentoring program, but on the short term, and with a bit more incentive to get it done. Prizes like Jackablade said would def help for motivation on the pro side. Albeit simple prizes hopefully(don't want to incur the last DW fiascos.)

    As far as PC's prior forays into collaboration art, I totally agree, most attempts have not worked out well. I think in most/some of those cases the collaboration were between 3 or more people, which I find quickly falls apart over the intertubes. I think something like this could be a bit more stable because of the strict 2 man teams.

    People are bringing up the pro/am definition, as well as team picking, which to me would be the hardest and most sensitive part to figure out. To me a pro would be anyone who has a had a job in the industry at some point. Your an amateur if your a student or someone still working up their portfolio to break in.

    As far as picking teams, my idea would be "amateurs" post their name in a list on a thread with a link to their portfolio. Pros can then contact anyone on the list and propose a collaboration. My biggest concern is I don't want wasted opportunities for learning. If a pro commits to doing the contest and helping somebody I would hate for the amateur they were paired with at random to bail out, while somebody who was really willing to put the time in is stuck with a pro who maybe didn't have the time they thought they would. Ultimately we want both parties involved to be committed.

    Im glad there's at least some positive feedback.
  • Alberto Rdrgz
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    Alberto Rdrgz polycounter lvl 9
    if i had time, i would do any comp with anybody. but shit, i'm so busy, my only peace time is pooping. :P
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    I can see how this could *sound* cool, but honestly I don't really see a point to it. I think collaborations are much more fruitful when people just do it for real (like the Hazardous progress/sharing threads), instead of starting "what if..." questions like here :) In short, if yourself want to pair with someone ... just find the right person to pair with, and get to work. Later on other artists will simply do the same if the idea catches on ...

    Also I don't see the point of the PRO/AM distinction either. Unlike sport events, Polycount does not enforce rules regarding who can play with who. I suppose that for newcomers, someone being "PRO" could seem like a big deal, but so far on PC this never actually mattered and I don't think it should.

    Just my 2c !
  • Andreas
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    Andreas polycounter lvl 11
    While I agree with the people that this might not work, it's a very different dynamic, pairing a Pro with an amateur. So who knows, it might.
  • TrevorJ
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    TrevorJ polycounter lvl 9
    Excellent points Pior, last thing I would want to happen would be some elitism developed from a pro/am distinction. Thanks for the thoughts everyone, now.. enough talk, back to work!
  • Alberto Rdrgz
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    Alberto Rdrgz polycounter lvl 9
    if people are patient anything can work.
  • yodude87
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    yodude87 polycounter lvl 5
    if people are patient anything can work.

    if people are patient AND willing. most importantly...
  • Alberto Rdrgz
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    Alberto Rdrgz polycounter lvl 9
  • Sukotto
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    Sukotto polycounter lvl 8
    Well we won't know until we try guys. Not like it will be detrimental if things don't work out. What do we have to lose?
  • Talbot
    Why don't you just get rid of the word "Contest" and make a place where people with a job can team up with who are getting started, and they can make something together? Make it like a big brother program or something lol
  • yodude87
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    yodude87 polycounter lvl 5
    yea, there could be something like a "polycount experience program", where someone who still hasnt gotten in the industry states what his/her project is, and leaves it there to someone who's already in the industry to join.

    for example, lets say i wanna work in a scene based off resident evil. i create a topic "[experience program] resident evil scene", where i would explain what the scene i want to make is, and all the these and those, and would leave it there for people who are from the industry to accept it. when im happy, i say "alright, already picked someone, will keep the thread updated with our progress" or something similar.

    it would be useful both for a) folio purposes; b) experience working in a team; c) working with someone who's already in the industry; d) networking in a deeper way. whaddya guys say?
  • Gestalt
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    Gestalt polycounter lvl 11
    I think some sort of 'big brother'/apprentice thing would be amazing.

    I'd imagine an easier setup would be to have people put themselves down on a list of apprentices, giving a link to some of their work. The 'pros', experienced people who would like to guide/mentor/teach, would pick someone from the list and offer to join them as their mentor in the contest.

    The apprentice would work on the project and do the majority of the work, while the mentor, who likely has an industry job and limited time most of the day, would give guidance in his or her spare time, helping the apprentice to make a great entry of their own merit.
  • yodude87
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    yodude87 polycounter lvl 5
    Gestalt wrote: »
    I think some sort of 'big brother'/apprentice thing would be amazing.

    I'd imagine an easier setup would be to have people put themselves down on a list of apprentices, giving a link to some of their work. The 'pros', experienced people who would like to guide/mentor/teach, would pick someone from the list and offer to join them as their mentor in the contest.

    The apprentice would work on the project and do the majority of the work, while the mentor, who likely has an industry job and limited time most of the day, would give guidance in his or her spare time, helping the apprentice to make a great entry of their own merit.

    thats a good idea too! giving the due merit to the mentor obviously... but something along these lines is quite doable i guess
  • S_ource
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    S_ource polycounter lvl 9
    Great idea, i also think making a whole game would be awesome but i doubt anyone would step in to lead the whole project to time consuming and risky. I think a pro is someone that have get paid for doing game art not just 3d art.
  • Wonkey
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    Wonkey polycounter lvl 10
    I am wondering how many AMs are up for this as opposed to Pros?

    Another thing, how many of you guys have tried the Google Hangouts doing Art? I have seen about 20 of us doing it off and on.
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