Texture Practice

Darkleopard

Hey guys. So this is my second thread on polycount and my goal at the moment is to improve on my texturing and materials. I am focusing just on Diffuse, normal and specular (maybe some glow later on). I have very little experience texturing so i hope i can get some crits and comments for mprovement.

All are screen grabs from maya. I am trying to limit the time i spend on each one so i get faster as well. I am posting this nooby work here to keep me motivated to update.

My first one was to try and replicate a picture off the Ndo website, as it had a psd that broke down the textures and helped me to get a better understanding of how everything worked. ( i am starting off focusing on metal)


Next i used the same colours and workflow to produce these two



Using a little reference i then tried different colours to make come other objects



I feel the specular may be a little strong on some of them. Please let me know what you think!

Darkleopard

Little update. Made a dirty old stove for practice. Crits appreciated. I could have refined the texture more but i thought id get opinion first. Im still learning now materials wear and tear.

Just maya screenshots

Jessica Dinh

Texture res looks a little ugly - use large photos and never scale small ones up to fit your texture size! If you have to do any scaling down, then scale the texture first in its own document (not manually) with Bicubic Sharper checked in the image options. Also adding grime in crevices and corners, and wear on protruding edges, can help your textures look more believable.

Also, what do your UV's look like? Hopefully all your pieces have the same texel density - make sure to throw a checker texture on your model first to check resolutions before you start into your texturing.

Darkleopard

I was using larger one and scaling down however i did scale down after i copyed the image across. I wasnt aware that it would make a difference where you scaled it down. Ive never hard of the bicubic sharper before so i will defiantly give it a try and compare the results.

When i unwrap i do use a checker texture to make sure there is no stretching. I think its just the texture itself but i will definitely check the checkers again just in case.

Thank you so much for the feedback. I really appreciate it. Im still in school and really just starting to learn how to texture, so i usually feel like people dont really bother with us noobies. I will do my best to improve this model

Jessica Dinh

No problem! Posting your textures, UV's, and wireframes of your models will help others give you feedback too. Keep it up :]

Darkleopard

I am working on it right now. I will post more things as soon as i refine the texture. It is difficult to get nice textures without any blurryness but i think i just need to use bigger textures.

Darkleopard

Ok So i worked a little more on this. Heres the wireframe and the WIP new texture. I am still have issues with textures looking a little blurry. I have a feeling im trying to put to much detail into areas that are to small for it. Ive been looking for examples on 3d models but i cant find anything close to see what other people do.

Again suggestions are greatly appreciated, i know im still a noob

Hayden Zammit

As Jessica suggested, show your UVs. If the UVs are bad, the textures are going to look blurry.

At the moment it looks like you just slapped on a big texture.. Are you using some real world reference for this? If not, it'll help.

Good luck.

njc6425

definately looks better

sipher3325

Looks way better. Getting some stretching though on that top ledge.

Darkleopard

@ Hayden - Ive been trying to find reference for the particular look i want but its difficult. Old dirty stoves are in plenty on google but a lot of the pictures quality is bad so its hard for me to see the textures.

Thanks for the crits. Here are some shots of the checker texture (to show theres no stretching on that) and one of the diffuse and spec.

I think i have an idea of whats making the texture looked stretched. I think i forgot to change my base texture when i remade it. *embarrassed* I will look at this more soon, i have work soon. This is whats there so far though

megalmn2000

I would suggest you to look at racer445's tutorial to improve your texture skill!

http://www.nextgenhardsurface.com/index.php?pageid=racer445

Isaiah Sherman

Jessica Dinh wrote: »

Texture res looks a little ugly - use large photos and never scale small ones up to fit your texture size!

Yes

Jessica Dinh

Your checkers prove that your texel density is way off. Look at the little drawer - the checkers are at least 4 times smaller than the ones on the body, which means it is getting too much space. Scale your pieces up/down until the checkers are the same size across the entire model.

The base photo you used is really noisy, so there are big details splashed everywhere and it doesn't make sense. Start with a clean metal texture and add the noise/details/dirt in yourself. Also the spec map is a mess! haha xD (at least I think that's what that is) I'd def do a little more research for that. Keep practicin' , this already looks some better than before.

Darkleopard

Thanks for the reply's guys! Really appreciate you spending the time to help out.

@ Mega - Thanks for the link. Will definitely be reading this before redoing the texture again

@ Jess - Thanks! I didnt realise that the checkers for each object should be around the same size, i was just told they should all be square to stop stretching. I realized i didnt really know what texel density is so i looked it up and did some research. I guess the only concern i have is if i made the drawers/doors smaller that they would look even worse texture wise, but i will definitely re-size everything and see if it helps. Just to clarify here that im doing the right thing. I have been scaling the uvs up together to make the checkers smaller to check their size compared to each other because its easier to see. I hope im not doing it wrong :P

I will try building the texture up from a clean base, and keep my maps cleaner. Your right, my maps are horrible. XD

Thanks for coming back to help me out jess Ive been watching your stuff since i found polycount, its beautiful.

Will update tomorrow!

iniside

Just samll tip.
In general the lower res texture, the less high-frequency details it should have. Simply because texture will be stretched on model, and small details start looking like giant pixel stains.

The best way to learn when use what detail level is to constantly preview your texture on model. Yes it will take bit more time, but I think you will learn much more.

Ex-Ray

Yeah listen to Jessica. When you've finished unwrapping always spend a few moments checking your texel density, how your uv's are laid out and also whether you can mirror/overlap uv's to maintain resolution. Because texturing has a linear workflow you want to get this step done correctly as its painful to resolve later on.

Before texturing spend some time thinking logically where and what sort of grime/scratches will be there, this will sell it and 'ground' it.

Ditch that spec map and leave it for the time being, concentrate just on the diffuse and you'll realise with just 1 map you can make a great looking prop.

Darkleopard

Thanks for the tips guys. One more question

If im scaling these uvs down to make the texel density the same, wont i be wasting UV space? I know everything can be scaled up together to fill in things, but theres a point where i will have to chose between keeping texel density, and using my uv space to get more texture info in. Just curious what you think

Olli.

the problem with the stove is that it looks like a model with a photograph slapped on top. Thats not what you want. you want it to look like a stove.

you got to get the texture to actually fit the model, you cant just put a photo on it and call it done.

Darkleopard

Thats what im trying to do oiii. I understand the problems and im working to fix them. I am going to spend tomorrow hand painting a lot of stuff in and try to use very little photo texture.

Thanks for the input though

Jessica Dinh

Just make sure the checkers are all the same, then when you've got that, scale everything up as big as you can and pack that. Sometimes there will be leftover space, but life is not perfect! hehe

Darkleopard

So ive been sick over the last 4 days and havnt got much done. I have barely touched my stove since friday but i will finish that sometime soon. I decided to try out some modular rock walls for a change of pace. This is my first attempt.




Can post maps if wanted.

Let me know what you think. Im going to be trying a bunch of different ones

Edit: Eh its looking a little flat from the maya viewport. i will put it in UDK soon and repost

njc6425

that is some amazing stuff sarah!!! blown away did you soften the normals out? it looks a little faceted in the first image, but looks great ps whats your email, have some details for the assignment for you

Darkleopard

So i have been all over the place the last week playing with various models and textures and i finally settled down to focus on 1 model. This is the result. Im pretty happy with it but i know there are things i could improve. I tried to present it in a little more of a professional manner

My main reference was off philipk's modular tutorial and some various other sci-fi units. This is all just practice over the school break




Im using photobucket at the moment, the images seem a little small for proper viewing, is there a way to increase the size?

Notes

Im not sure if you're presenting this in Maya,Max, or UDK? but your final result would benefit greatly from a 2nd set of normals....One normal for the height (like you have above) and another normal for your dirt and scratches.(The detail normal map)
That way once you combine the 2 either in photoshop or in UDK, your scratches/dirt will have some depth to them as well. Take only the dirt layer in photoshop (if you havent flattened your image already) and create a normal map from that and overlay it over your current normals. Set the dirt normals to overlay. Go to layer properties and uncheck the blue channel. Flatten.Normalize using nVidia and plug it back into maya/max. UDK is a bit easier but you get the idea right??? :P

Notes

Darkleopard

Thanks for the reply! Have never done this before so i'll give it a crack tonight. The shots were just rendered in maya. Im just starting to learn UDK at the moment but i have a basic understanding of the texture stuff in it. This shouldnt be to hard

Notes

NP,it wasn't until my 2nd year of schooling that one of my teachers mentioned combining 2 normal maps...he said "you need a normal map for your scratches and dirt"....I had a dumb look on my face and said, "wtf, how come no teacher told me this until now?"
yeah...try it with and without the 2nd normal map...GL

njc6425

really like the computer unit you should add a glow map for the screen part just for that extra pop

Darkleopard

My first tileable brick texture. This was fun



Im having trouble getting good quality renders with maya, even at production quality they just dont look as nice and crisp as in the viewport. They are also appearing more washed out once i upload and post them compared to how they look on my desktop.

Any ideas on how to fix this? I don't know that much about rendering

njc6425

If its for games then rendering doesnt meam much as its what you see in the viewport that matters rendering us fiddily. looks fine to me though how did you go about this one?

ivanzu

Nice,you are progressing fast.Why does that brick texture looks so blurry?Try running unsharpen mask filter inside Photoshop.

Xelan101

If you really want in idea of how your textures will work in game you'll want to throw them into a real-time renderer or game engine. Most people tend to use UDK as it's free and there's lots of tutorials on getting things into it and looking right. Another option is Marmoset Toolbag which is very intuitive for the most part and easy to use, however after a 30 day trial it's 50 dollars for a license.

Contrary to what njc6425 said it's not about what it looks like in viewport, but rather what it looks like in a real time render.

I definitely think you're improving. Just keep practicing, the more you try the better you'll become and you'll learn tips and trick so you can avoid mistakes the next time around. Keep it up.

Darkleopard

@Njc - I guess i just didnt understand why a screenshot would look fine in photoshop, then look different when uploaded and posted. Doenst make sense to me.

@Ivanzu - Thanks so much! Thats what ive been trying to figure out, its not blurry and washed out on my screen, but it is in this post.

@Xelan101 - Apprecaite the comments, i will throw it in UDK and see if the quality changes. Does USK have a renderer, or can i just take a screenshot of it in UDK?

Xelan101

Apparently the newest version of UDK has finally added a screenshot button, I haven't used it myself as I'm still using an earlier version. I tend to just take a screenshot of the scene with lighting baked and game view on (that way you don't see all the gizmos) using the printscreen command (if you're using a pc it should be CTRL+SHIFT+PRT SC, and then you just copy the image into a photoshop document) The whole point of UDK and other such engines is it displays things as they would be seen in game rather than rendering a single image out.

Also having looked at the brick texture a bit more you may want to cut up those two large bricks in the center of the texture (and maybe one or two of the extra long bricks) as they draw a whole lot of attention to themselves and in turn draw attention to the fact that the texture is tiled.

Tiling textures are a bit of hassle because you want them unique and interesting enough to not be boring, but not so unique and interesting that the player can pick out every detail and see the tiling.

If you plan on doing more tilables (and/or cleaning up this one) I'd head over to Jessica's showcase thread http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87797 it's basically a collection of tiling texture knowledge, although it's about handpainted stuff most of the rules still apply to photosourced/realistic texture.

WREA

I totally agree with Xelan101, try breaking the big brick because that totally gives it off that your tiling. And also I noticed in the beginning of the thread you showed your specular map, how i usually make my specs is I take my diffuse map and on PhotoShop I add a layer B/W filter to it. Then I apply a level filter to it and I just tweak it until I get a nice black and white image. I try to get rid of much gray as possible. When you add your textures to the model, your spec helps bring out the shininess/reflectivity to it. White makes it shiny/the light is going to bounce off of it and black is going to do the opposite.

Darkleopard

THanks for the info. So i put my little unit in UDK and set up a couple lights. I think i may have made the lights to strong but there is such a strong difference between the colours that im at a bit of a loss. It looks so much different in UDk then Maya.

I anticipated there would be differences but as this is my first time putting my own stuff into UDK im not sure how to reduce those differences. I prefer the way it looks in maya, more defined i guess. What am i doing wrong? Is there a lot of modification i have to manually make to the texture in the UDK material editor?

@Xelan - Yeah i noticed those big bricks as well, but it was past midnight and i was exhausted. I will try to fix those up. Ive been watching jess's thread, i guess i will reread a lot of it.

Edit: Oh and what should i been saving my pictures as. Im using Jpeg at the moment, perhaps that is lowering the picture quality. Are there any other recommended file types i should be saving these pictures as?

I feel like such a noob

Darkleopard

@ WREA - Thanks for the info. Im not sure what you mean by adding a B/W filter to it though, can you elaborate?

WREA

On photoshop they have the adjustments that you can apply to your image..B/W - Black and White Adjustments
I highlighted the two adjustments i use.

Darkleopard

Thanks very much, i'll have a look at them. My teacher mentioned that its good to have a little colour in spec maps so ive been trying to not make everything just black and white, but i'll check out the results

Xelan101

I would definitely try toning down the light you've got as that might be the issue since things seem blown out. Also It could have something to do with your specular as the areas most effected seem to be the shiniest on your map... Typically when texturing metal you want a very dark diffuse with bright spec which then brings out brighter tones in the diffuse.

To use my own work as an example http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96117&page=2 look at the final texture sheets for the gun and then look at the gun itself. The final renders are extremely bright when compared to the diffuse on it's own and according to my teacher I really should go even darker with the diffuse to avoid things getting blown out and plastic looking.

As for file format you should be saving your textures out as TGAs (Targas) as those tend to be the images UDK works best with. Although I myself don't know the pros and cons to using TGAs vs JPEGs

And finally some more about the specular you are correct that often a bit of color can be added. It depends on the type of material you're trying to create. Check out this tutorial for some ideas http://www.manufato.com/?p=902

A black and white spec can often work pretty well on it's own without color and should be the first thing you focus on. You want your values correct first (ie brighter for shinier and darker for duller) You generally don't want to go to complete white or complete black (unless you're trying to imply a hole, in which case a black spec and diffuse with a decent normal map can be quite convincing, or where there's an emissive and you don't want extra lighting information messing with it) Anyways the point being hit your values first and then add some light color on top, you generally don't want your spec to be more saturated than your diffuse.

Hopefully these big walls of text are helping >.<

Darkleopard

I very much appreciate the big walls of text actually :P Thank you.

I save my textures out as Targa, i meant my screenshots. When uploaded they seem more washed out and less detail then they appear on my computer before i upload them and im not sure what i can do to fix that.

I'll take a look at that link today, thanks . I find it interesting that he suggests darker diffuse and high spec. Ill have to give that a shot

Darkleopard

So i tried to fix the obvious tiling issues with my stone. Was harder then i thought.
I am pretty happy with how it looks at the moment. Ignore the blurry, its not like that in maya, just when i take pictures. Working on fixing it.

This is a fun process. Onwards to more textures!

Darkleopard

@ Notes - (If you read this thread again). I did try the dirt normals, easy to get working, but it was barely noticeable. Im guessing it may have a better effect on rock and stone or some bigger metal surfaces, but it doesnt really add much to the small surfaces. Thanks for the tips though, i will/have been using this since you mentioned it

Notes

-Hey, give this a read on adjusting tiling in UDK
http://www.chrisalbeluhn.com/UT3_Adding_Brick_Variation.html
I learned a butt load from doing his tutorials...

-Dark diffuse and high spec will make the scratches, stains, little details stand out nicely when the light hits it...

http://www.nextgenhardsurface.com/index.php?pageid=racer445

the vid above explains the method...awesome ness

-When you teacher said to add some color to your diffuse; i was told the same thing but it made no sense to me...im not sure if your teacher told you why or how but after side studying it finally made sense....
ok...simple version... two types of materials
1.Dielectric Materials...wood, plastic,cloth, non conductors and
2.Conductors...Metals

In a white light, dielectrics will reflect the color of the light (white) there for, a black and white spec map......
Conductors will still reflect the color of the light but with a tint of color from the material as well.....

this was the penny I did to figure out this theory

notice how the top penny looks "weird" because it's reflecting white...the 2nd one has a diffuse texture that I've used "Levels" in photoshop to brighten and use as a spec map...if you have a real penny handy take a look at it...if you have any questions about the udk set up on the right let me know...its pretty easy to explain....

Hope that helps...I was told to use some colors in my spec map but was never told why or how....GL:)

Notes

Darkleopard wrote: »

@ Notes - (If you read this thread again). I did try the dirt normals, easy to get working, but it was barely noticeable. Im guessing it may have a better effect on rock and stone or some bigger metal surfaces, but it doesnt really add much to the small surfaces. Thanks for the tips though, i will/have been using this since you mentioned it

I guess I forgot to tell you that for it to work 'well'...to see the difference, it all depends on how far or close you are to the object...if the normal details are super detailed to where you can see the little grains...it looks awesome but if the model is actually being viewed from a few feet away...won;t even notice it...it has something to do with 'on screen pixel display' or something like that...hard to explain...hope I didn't confuse you more :P~

Darkleopard

Unfortunately we dont have pennies in Australia but i do understand what you mean .
Im going to be trying some stone pillars soon that should be able to incorporate the 2nd normal map much better.

Looking at that penny picture there is a lot i dont really understand (im very new to UDK).

Ive only used the simple texture samples for normal/spec/diffuse before and not played with all the other nodes there are. If you dont mind, id love to know what all those extra nodes are doing.

Thanks very much for the tiling tutorial. I did put my tiling brick texture into UDK and saw that the tiling was again very obvious, so this should help heaps. Im Going to have to bake you cookies for all the help your giving me

XXXTHECHAD

It doesn't look like your overlaying a AO over your Diffuse. Give it a go and your textures may pop a bit more.

Notes

"When you teacher said to add some color to your diffuse" <----wrong :P
I meant spec instead of diffuse here

As Chad says, generate an AO map and put it above your diffuse layer in photoshop with the blending properties set to multiply. This will kind of fake shadows on top of your diffuse.

np, I got a friend from Australia, you can just send it with her next time she visits besides, I've gottten alot of help as well as resources from Polycount ever since I started posting and I feel that I should contribute back...also regurgitating what i've learned helps me remember, which is why I tutor in school as well.

Just finished reading this...might help
http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/the_top_ten_tips_of_texturing

Darkleopard

@Chad - I did have a AO over the diffuse but it made the tiling in some spots very obvious so i toned it back some. I am currently experimenting with some rock faces to get AO, normals and diffuse all looking decent together.

@ Notes - Yeah i knew what you meant :P

I gotta say..tiling is a bitch

Darkleopard

Ok so ive done a little more material research and completed these two objects over the last 2 days. I used some ref off this very forum from all these talented artists. Hope no-one minds!





Im still not pleased with the picture quality, it looks so much nicer on my screen.

Now i must focus on an upcoming school project, so hopefully i can make a couple items on the weekends