Help needed please - modeling human

Yedp

Hello everyone I am new here, I hope I don't post in the wrong thread. To be honest I'm kind of ashamed posting seeing how good the people are here, but i'm quite desesperate/frustrated by my skills and i really want to improve, I'll never make progress without critiques so I hoped I could get some tips and tricks. I'm really struggling with 3D modeling, I suck at it and I'm a slow learner which isn't helping, I have a very long way to go.
My goal is to become better (good maybe someday when I'm old) with organic modeling. Here is what I'm working on, i tried several models but this one seemed the best i could make sorry, there are probably a lot of anatomic mistakes and i feel like the poly distribution is pretty wrong i just dunno how to connect the edges together either, it feels quite messy, I hope I can get some help.
Sorry for the bother and thanks in advance for your time.

pior

It might surprise you, but judging from this screenshot I would say that you know all you need to know from a technical point of view. It shows that you can create a watertight lopoly model with clean surfaces and no shading artefacts.

The rest has nothing to do with 3D (wich is just a tool). You simply need to work on your art fundamentals to understand why the model feels off.

Start by making 2D studies of the current subject matter (average female, I suppose ?). I would say, draw the front, back and side that you have here in 2D (photoshop or pencil), and as an extra do a 3/4 front and 3/4 back.

Once you are happy with all these 2D views, then you are ready to move to 3D.

Good luck!

Mark Dygert

It seemed like you tried really really hard to keep it all quads which is an admirably goal (as an animator who skins with loops and rings I solute your effort and thank you) but sometimes a few tri's are totally acceptable and even needed to terminate loops properly so they don't run all over the model and become useless for others. If you're not one to work off of loops and rings you might want to check out where some of them are going.

If you went all quads for sculpting that is again admirable but not required. You also want the quads to be roughly the same size and shape so they subdivide evenly and consistently.

Personally I would ask for cleaner shoulders in the back and 2 more loops running over the top of the shoulder.
The facial loops seem to be pretty good, but you might need a bit more geometry in the brows depending on how you plan to animate them. If the face isn't going to be animated then you can hack out a lot of loops.

Yedp

@pior: I actually used pictures reference to model and for the topology i tried watching some anatomic drawing and wireframes from other artists, i just felt that i went wrong with the lines though, maybe it is because it's still abstract for me and i don't have a good notion of where to put the main edges to have a good definition. I think you are right though i need to study more anatomy until i can understand properly which shape it should have and probably try to use as much reference as possible, thanks for your help!

@Mark Dygert: It is right i tried to keep it more quads, that's what i hear was the best, thanks for your advices! By cleaning the shoulders in the back do you mean the scapula? I'm planning to maybe rig this character later and do some sculpting but I dunno how to use Zbrush well for now so that will have to wait, i really want to master the basics before jumping steps.

Thanks again for your answers and your time, it really is helping me and I feel better knowing what to do, I just need more training to get there.

Mark Dygert

It would probably help to separate your base mesh from your final mesh.

A base mesh will focus on getting a consistent resolution when the model sub-divides. The final mesh will focus on deformation and optimization. These goals often conflict and its easier to separate the two meshes.

Base mesh -> Sculpt -> Retopo for final deforming mesh.

A good basemesh will be made up of quads that are roughly the same size and shape without too many drastic twists and turns in the topology. so when the mesh sub-divides you roughly have the same resolution all over the mesh.

The final mesh focus on deformation and optimization rather than resolution. It can have a lot more tris, remember that all game models are triangulated in the game. BUT that doesn't mean other people who work with the mesh won't appreacate quads, loops and rings to work with, but you don't need to be a quad nazi, ha (not that you are one). The final mesh can have long thin quads or tris as long as it deforms well.


If this was a base mesh:
There are a lot of small quads (face/nose), thin (ankles, calves top of thigh), oddly positioned quads (shoulder blades) that can cause problems when sculpting, sometimes those areas can be more problematic than a few tri points that might be hard to smooth.

You will probably want more polys around the eyes because there is normally a lot of detail that goes into the skin around the eyes. You probably also want to add more quads to the back of the head so it stays smooth and holds its shape when it subdivides.

The long thin quads where the thigh attaches to the pelvis could be problematic and should be squared off. For deformation they might be acceptable but often there is another loop running down the inner thigh.


If this was a final deforming mesh:
The elbows would need similar treatment to the knees. If you take care creating lower back dimples you need to take the same care creating elbows.

The shoulders could use a few loops which could help straighten out the topology in the shoulder blades.


I'm very glad you're thinking of deformation and about base meshes. I've had to break a few modelers of some bad habits because they never really thought about how the character will deform and animate. So it's really good that you're looking into this kind of stuff, it will make you a stronger artist than someone who only cares about making a good looking T-Poser.

OH Also... http://hippydrome.com/
This site is full of amazing topology, articulation, joint placement and skin weighting info. The guy that put this together works for Pixar, as our industry gets closer and closer to film resolution this kind of info becomes more and more pertinent.

Good luck you're off to a good start!

Yedp

@Mark Dygert: This website is amazing, I really have to study it! Thanks for taking time to make detailed critics too, I'm really grateful, it cleared a lot of things in my head, I am not yet experienced enough to know where I can afford triangles, I only have a basic idea of main wireframes lines but I lack experience regarding organic modeling. I guess I should just try and see, following your advices.
Thanks again !

EDIT: I tried to modify my model based on your advices but I thinck i kinda overdid it and probably have now too much lines, I changed some other few things I didn't like hope I didn't make it worse.