Making a short film, need some advice
polycounter lvl 7
Hey there polycounters,
Well, yes, I'm making a short and it's not game art, but it's an interesting project because it IS game-related.
I'm studying animation, and our "big project" this year is making a short film, in 3D, but the subject of the film has to be game-related. It can be anything starting from the latest hot video game, through street games and board games and even the word game, and it's meaning, as a general premise.
Either way - I have a script, a basic one anyway, and I'm going into production now, which will last until June. I gotta storyboard it, design it, model, texture, rig, animate, effects, rendering, the whole package...
So, now that I'm done with the boring introduction, I'll present my problem.
I suck at gathering reference.
Also, I'm hardly at a level where I can just invent everything in my short. I'm not sure I'll ever be good enough to just invent it all. This is where I need some help and this forum is the one I love most, so this is where I'm hoping to get what I need.
The movie is taking place in a forest environment. It's a drama-thriller. The hero is a hunter, and in a very rough generalization, it's a story about how this hunter befriends a wolf in the forest.
I want it to take place in an autumn setting, lots of trees, lots of bright, yellow light. It has to feel sort of cold, but still a bit warm from summer. It also takes place around the middle ages - when hunters didn't have guns or rifles, only bows. I'd say 11th-14th century I guess?
I'm looking for anything that might help me. Short films or full feature films that take place in similar settings (either a forest, or a nature environment in autumn). Any cinematography references for possible shots, ideas for designs for the character, the wolf, environments...
At this stage I'm mainly storyboarding the film and going towards an animatic. So for now, I think the most important thing would be movie references. So if you have ideas for movies, I'd be glad to hear them and go on a movie marathon to gather resources.
Basically - anything you think might help, really, I'd appreciate a lot.
I will post some materials from the film with time, if u'd like, but for now there's really only a storyline and some bad shots from a very early storyboard.
So thanks a lot for reading, and if you're gonna put some time to help me with looking for stuff or thinking up ideas, be sure to tell me your names! I want to put anyone who helped in the film credits when the time comes.
Thanks!
Well, yes, I'm making a short and it's not game art, but it's an interesting project because it IS game-related.
I'm studying animation, and our "big project" this year is making a short film, in 3D, but the subject of the film has to be game-related. It can be anything starting from the latest hot video game, through street games and board games and even the word game, and it's meaning, as a general premise.
Either way - I have a script, a basic one anyway, and I'm going into production now, which will last until June. I gotta storyboard it, design it, model, texture, rig, animate, effects, rendering, the whole package...
So, now that I'm done with the boring introduction, I'll present my problem.
I suck at gathering reference.
Also, I'm hardly at a level where I can just invent everything in my short. I'm not sure I'll ever be good enough to just invent it all. This is where I need some help and this forum is the one I love most, so this is where I'm hoping to get what I need.
The movie is taking place in a forest environment. It's a drama-thriller. The hero is a hunter, and in a very rough generalization, it's a story about how this hunter befriends a wolf in the forest.
I want it to take place in an autumn setting, lots of trees, lots of bright, yellow light. It has to feel sort of cold, but still a bit warm from summer. It also takes place around the middle ages - when hunters didn't have guns or rifles, only bows. I'd say 11th-14th century I guess?
I'm looking for anything that might help me. Short films or full feature films that take place in similar settings (either a forest, or a nature environment in autumn). Any cinematography references for possible shots, ideas for designs for the character, the wolf, environments...
At this stage I'm mainly storyboarding the film and going towards an animatic. So for now, I think the most important thing would be movie references. So if you have ideas for movies, I'd be glad to hear them and go on a movie marathon to gather resources.
Basically - anything you think might help, really, I'd appreciate a lot.
I will post some materials from the film with time, if u'd like, but for now there's really only a storyline and some bad shots from a very early storyboard.
So thanks a lot for reading, and if you're gonna put some time to help me with looking for stuff or thinking up ideas, be sure to tell me your names! I want to put anyone who helped in the film credits when the time comes.
Thanks!
Replies
Anything else comes to mind?
I think you are talking about 'Hero'? Mediocre movie, nice visuals.
Maybe a film with a hunting scene, or a forest scene with some suspense, something like that?
My first thought (very personal) would be a autumn that isn't very warm & windy. Things to keep in mind: Color saturation, environment interaction with the hunter, breezes & wind (leaves) and most important sound. I like the idea of making it a tad more frosty though, sounds appealing because its an (survival?) hunter character. Would be cool if you'd still be able insert your bright summer feeling into the story as some sort of comfort or relief.
That's my first thought without knowing the character, story or whatsoever.
I usually focus more on the character before I really start getting into the environment. This of course with an idea about the environment in the back of my mind.
I'm a student in the field of animation, new media and design so I'm looking forward to see your progress. Good luck!
Well, regarding the environment - it should by all means look like autumn. Reds, oranges, yellows, browns... it should feel like after the rain in the autumn - wet, but sunny. Windy, but it's not a chilling wind yet. Sky should be clear, with a few big clouds. In a couple of words, the film should feel like it's cold, frosty like you said, but summer remains. It's not COMPLETELY cold yet. The overall tone of the movie is a bit cold, but not totally hopeless.
I built the scenes to fit that idea, too. One scene is tense, the next is relieving, and the one after that is tense again. Closed compositions for the tense parts, broad ones for the calm ones.
I tend to focus on the "look and feel" of the entire thing before I start getting into anything else... I can't really move on with anything before I know how things "feel" visually. Character is part of it, and environment is a part of it... I'm looking for an overall feel.
So I'm in real need of some reference - especially things that work within the style I'm looking for, and great short films and full features that can give me ideas for shots and story-telling methods.
Glad to hear you're interested in my progress. I'll try to keep things updated as much as possible.
How many people do you have on your team?
How many days do you have you can spend on the project (per Team member/One day being eight hours of work)?
How much software and art skills does your team bring to the table (which software, how advanced, how quick can each itterate and polish example assets (character, one sentence voice animation, environment piece)?
I have some students who pitch for great scripts and storys and 3 to 4 months full production. Even then it's most of the time best to force them to work below 60 seconds (aim 30 seconds), evaluating to get rid of an offline renderer and using Game-Engines instead and cutting environments down to one set piece.
So far I didn't understand your idea either. I get that you want to do an autumn environment, but what is the actual "Thing" happening there? Or are you going pure mood at the moment?
edit: I missed the paragraph outlining the hunter - wolf relationship. Careful: You've got two Plot characters already and they have to hold up, both Modelwise and Animationwise. Also - what is the "Game" aspect? Also - just for naming conventions: Production usually means that the Script is down, the storyboard is done, the characters are layed out. What you're doing right now is organizing Pre-Production. What you need for that is a script you're confident about (doesn't need to be entirely fleshed out in details yet).
Could you post your current version of the script?
edit #2: if you want to stage a hunting in the woods, i always point to "silence of the lambs"' opening sequence. It depicts perfectly the feeling that someone is watching, stalking Jodie Foster's character (camera moving through tree rows, always close behind her). It doesn't have anything to do with Animals or a Huntsman but cinematographically it works and could probably be seen as a great inspiration.
[ame="
(1:50 till 2:25)
As for how many we are - for now it's just me. Towards the end of the semester I'll probably get 1-2 more people for the team. That's how the program works.
Regarding skills - I'm the most "technically proficient" member of the future team, since I'm the most advanced 3D guy in my class. I have some work experience and I practiced the field much more than my classmates. We're on our 3rd year and everyone can handle the work, but not as quickly and efficiently as I do. Either way - it IS a problem which I'm trying to be prepared for...
I believe we can come to a balance somehow, I'll do the complicated work, they'll do simpler stuff. We use Maya, photoshop, ZBrush and After Effects for most of the things we do. I use 3DS Max for most of my work, but animation is done in Maya exclusively.
As for art - Some are great with story, some are great with painting, it all depends on who joins me. But there are definitely fields which we'll lack skill at. Part of being a student I guess.
The whole project should last until June, and we all have nearly 100% of our time invested in school. I didn't make a timetable for the project yet, I was planning on doing that once I'm done with the story. We have a few classes that aren't related to making this film, but most of them are related.
As for the script - it's mostly done. I didn't nail ALL of the smaller details on it yet, but the general chain of events is pretty solid. I'll have to translate it to English before I post the whole thing here, and I hope I can do that soon.
That's roughly the storyline. What inspired me to think up this story is Stuart Brown's lecture on TED, about play, and how important it is for us. It's a movie about the importance of games and playing in our lives, and how it can change your state of mind and create better solutions to problems, and a better life.
I have the hunter, the wolf, the critters and the son for the final scene. I have 3 environments: the woods, the area where the hunter meets the wolf, and the exterior of his house. I have the whole year to work on it.
Just to note - I'm aware of the scale, and I know I might have to trim it down. But for now, I try to focus on nailing the storyboard and script, to see what this project requires before making any decision.
Thanks, and sorry for the long wall of text.
BTW, thanks for the reference, it seems useful. It's more of a search/chase, but I'm sure I can learn from it.
My teacher thinks it should be a really intense thriller, he had some great ideas to be honest. And you on the other hand, think it should be comical.
Honestly, I was somewhere between you and my teacher since the beginning. It should be dramatic and there's some action and emotion with his failure and his fight with the wolf, but then when the "play" is unveiled, it should ease and become warmer and more cheerful. Starts grey, ends sunny. I hope once I get a storyboard going I can show you what I mean more clearly.
BTW, I removed the summary from the above message for now. I'll post things from the process with time, I'd rather try to keep the entire plot a bit of a secret.
Serious theme.
http://vimeo.com/18008261
Making of 'Mighty Antlers': http://vimeo.com/20217307
http://vimeo.com/17914974
Comical.
http://vimeo.com/27127177
http://vimeo.com/17535548
http://vimeo.com/15126262
I'll let you know when I find more reference that isn't just google images(ish), though I highly suggest going to www.flickr.com with a pen and paper and search for images while you make a mind map! Maybe it's good to post the reference material that you already have here.
Then I ll suggest you do all your blockout and camera work, next lighting, before even modeling any final asset. Because you ll probably find out that there might be a lot you can do with matte painting intead of 3d.
Good planning is your best friend (excel, google calendar, etc). And a smart mix of 3d rendering and matte painting properly done can be awesome. Good luck!
Maze - I know time flies really quickly, even though I hope it won't, past experience teaches otherwise... and thanks for the heads up. As for the scale - I'm aware it's really big and my teachers warn me about that as well. I'm trying to figure out everything before I make any final decisions. If I find that this project is too long, my plan is to trim it down to one single scene - the meeting between the wolf and the hunter - and make that scene AWESOME. Then, I'll be able to take this project and finish it next year, and make it a full length short film (ha ha). Next year is my final school year, and many people do such things - make a portion of their film this year, then finish the rest the next year.
As for storyboarding - Yes, that was the plan... I'm going to put all my efforts into storyboarding, videoboarding, then making an animatic to test it all out - and only then will I go into production. I didn't phrase myself properly before, sry about that.
I didn't think about blocking it all in 3D before modeling assets and all - and it sounds like it's a much safer way to approach it... thanks for that as well.
I'll be happy to hear anything you guys have to say further, and fingers crossed I'll be posting progress here as it goes along. I hope this project goes well, though it's a huge amount of work and I've never done anything even close to this scale before. Let's hope I got what it takes...