Am I stupid for considering this?
polycounter lvl 10
I gave my try at graphics on here and I'm still working on it, but long story short my priority is and always will be programming.
That said my area of expertise is graphics programming (anywhere from real-time radiosity to high-speed particle systems to efficient terrain mapping and manipulation) and I am working on a very powerful game engine with some friends.
I figured with me and the few people helping being based around code and this forum being dedicated to artistic assets, it would be plausible to ask if there is any art asset team willing to design and produce art assets for a game (to showcase the engine) where me and my mini-team would get the game-play mechanics in place.
Its a while off before the engine is ready, maybe months, but I always preferred knowing before doing. So my question is basicly, if the engine were at a well developed and powerful state. Would any art asset teams on the forums consider designing a game and making the assets? With the coding (physics, game mechanics, etc.) left to us.
before you say "whats in it for art asset team?" besides showcasing their work, I've talked it over with the coding team and the art asset team would be able to keep any and all profit made from said game. We're making this as a hobby at the moment and showcasing the engine with well made assets to get us off the ground would be enough compensation for us.
Thank you for reading,
Bombshell
That said my area of expertise is graphics programming (anywhere from real-time radiosity to high-speed particle systems to efficient terrain mapping and manipulation) and I am working on a very powerful game engine with some friends.
I figured with me and the few people helping being based around code and this forum being dedicated to artistic assets, it would be plausible to ask if there is any art asset team willing to design and produce art assets for a game (to showcase the engine) where me and my mini-team would get the game-play mechanics in place.
Its a while off before the engine is ready, maybe months, but I always preferred knowing before doing. So my question is basicly, if the engine were at a well developed and powerful state. Would any art asset teams on the forums consider designing a game and making the assets? With the coding (physics, game mechanics, etc.) left to us.
before you say "whats in it for art asset team?" besides showcasing their work, I've talked it over with the coding team and the art asset team would be able to keep any and all profit made from said game. We're making this as a hobby at the moment and showcasing the engine with well made assets to get us off the ground would be enough compensation for us.
Thank you for reading,
Bombshell
Replies
Try the 'Requests' section under 'Work Opportunities.'
People that are looking to do this kind of thing will look there.
Hope that helps.
I should be visiting it in a month or so :P
I'm actually very surprised this doesn't happen more often here and think it's a great idea, good luck with the project.
the idea behind the project is to get the engine noticed.
make a game which looks, runs and plays well making as much out of the engine as possible. Announce the engine as public, with licences allowing limited commercial and redistribute privileges.
Its basicly what relationship battlefield and frostbite have. As well as crysis and cry-engine.
so that's basicly the incentive.
The overall goal of this project is to get enough status so that me and my friends may start careers in game development. Some of them are only just going into Uni so if this goes to plan we're getting a relatively good start in life :P
this may all seem like head in the clouds optimism but hell, if I'm gonna reach for somewhere why not the stars :P
Only advice i can give is give as much freedom as you can to the most talented individuals on the team, and don't let assholes F everything up, best to kick them to the curb as soon as possible.
One of the 2 other members is a good friend and we've already discussed a business plan and a few fall-back plans for when we get going, in any case we've labeled game quality top priority. No rushing a game to flog it, no cutting the games short.
so greed, and personality shouldn't be a great problem.
Just as a curiosity,
are these map types sufficient,
Diffuse (obvious)
Specular (obvious)
Normal (obvious)
Displacement (with adaptive tesselation)
Parallax
Ambient Occlusion
Glow
Pattern (long story short its a way of allowing high amounts of small detail by referencing tilable materials)
Anything else I should look into implementing?
Glow is a must, if not, at least give the option of a non-glow emissive (meaning they don't utilize a buffer render).
In that regard, are you creating a material editor? Or a master material in which the artist simply assigns the correct map to the correct slot?
Oh, almost forgot, what about Alpha sorting and Fresnel or Vertex Coloring?
Glow I'm determined to use!
when I've got the material system up, my top priority will be to make an editor!
Vert colour simple
Frensel simple
Transparency, I've got ideas on how to tackle it :P
Well I'm not a code guru, I've just spent a while researching graphics programming, most of which is done in HLSL for the shaders which is really quite simple when your doing deferred rendering, everything basicly becomes a pixel shader.
When it comes to collisions and physics I'm rather uneducated XD I've got a base understanding of how stuff is done but I know little about the actual algorithms used. (bar AABB's my dog could do that though XD)
Not to mention until recently I'd been using C#, the transition to C++ for better control over my code is a bumpy one, but I'm getting there :P
I think most newer engines are doing some kind of hack to achieve the SSS look. might be a fun project if you get bored (haha)
As far as physics go, there's bullet, apex, havok and some other 3rd party SDKs out there that you can use.
And many people will hate me for this, but if you end up making an editor, give it the ability to use max/maya/xsi style navigation. WASD is sodding annoying for anything but fly-throughs imho.
You'll have your work cut out for you.
I've actually put a lot of thought into such things, with the primary rendering being deferred cramming as much information into as small a space as possible is very very important.
@Maph
Multi-Platform will be a later concern, for now we can't afford development consoles. Deferred rendering is the way everything will be rendered, full HDR is fairly simple, along with that I have a fast and accurate algorithm for real-time radiosity, a theory on an extremely powerful particle system and a fast and high detail way of mapping truly destructible terrain.
The coding language is C++ I have a producer consumer system for thread handling, and a runtime layout allowing logic and draw calls to work at the same time.
As for editor I'd not thought much of how I'll be implementing it. I guess I should get looking at some features I may want in it. The control scheme for the editor, I'm most familiar with blender so I'll probably have controls swappable between those and a fly-through editor.
@Neox
The asset team will design the game, me and my coding team will do all the coding. I'm planning on extending the engine to a point where adding functionality will be near as simple as pseudo code. So if the asset team wanted to work on some of the code, it'd be more than possible.
But that said it would take months to finish an assortment of programs and utilities dedicated to developing using the engine. This is not to say I don't intend to make them. However when I start this project I aim to only have a fairly simple terrain and level editor and of course the engine itself.
if the project kicks off me and the programming team will have a huge window open for us, we'd at the very least have the renown to find sources of funding (such as a business grant or participation in a program such as the Bungie aerospace program, etc.) when we get a source of funding we will all have a lot more time to work on the engine, by time its ready for public release it will be user friendly,
and will more likely than not have a node based event editor. (like Neox suggested)
Rest assured, the plan on how and when the engine will develop has been well thought through.
FIRST! I'll explain the projects workflow!
After acquiring a willing asset team and taking care of legal issues so the project doesn't go unfinished.
Asset Team - Design a game (base concepts and what the gameplay will hold)
Together - Plan out how the mechanics will work and discuss any special functionality.
Asset Team - Generate concept art and maybe some base resources (low detail objects representing other objects for the sake of planning and testing mechanics.
Code Team - get the base of the game put together and work on the initial mechanics
Asset Team - Put together some low level assets (a model and animation/s for a playable character, a set of modules, an enemy)
Code Team - Get the low level assets in game and being used with interaction (setting up player controls, special interaction with specific modules or items, a base for enemy AI)
Together - Work towards the first beta via finishing a level or 2 with release candidate assets and mechanics
Together - Polish everything and build up the content.
Asset Team - animate cinematic's (whatever way be necessary, pre-rendered, path based, cartoon, leave the asset team to decide)
Code Team - prepare final beta and start negotiating distribution channels (E.G. Steam will take a game so long as you have a late demo and it reaches their standards)
Together - Final play test the game, note things that went well and things that didn't work out too good, possibly plan a patch to fix a few bugs (by now distribution channels should be negotiated but it wouldn't look good as a first project delayed, when opposed to a patch.)
Release game and hope all goes well.
As for engines limitations, The "engine" will be more a framework allowing quick assembly of an engine. when its ready for public release it will have several flexible rendering managers, logic libraries, multiple overloads to most methods. I would hate to limit its capabilities as that would affect the way we use the engine too.
As for importing assets, its a top priority atm (as its one of the things we've yet to get sorted) to make an import library for assets, taking notes from optimization's in asset management I have used in practice before, assets can be completely lossless and incredibly compressed (anywhere from a half to a tenth of the size of the original assets without loosing any information(even more so with models and animations)).
Network programming is a whole other league and understanding it has always given me trouble, so multiplayer elements would need to be a planned update or extension, but I don't think its practical thinking it could be implemented within the time in which we hope the engine ready for a game.
It will work as an UberShader Forward Renderer with a GBuffer capable of most deferred rendering.
I'm writting the Culling engine while I type this, the Culling Engine is a more efficient model of the FrostBite 2's method. There will be a few base UberShaders optimized for drawing smooth, shiny and rough surfaces.
This will take time, but I'm assuming within a month models may be visible on it.
ALSO an update on the deal I was considering following the engine. I've spent so much time on graphics programming I lack a knowledge in efficient collision detection, as well as some other game related criteria, likewise the offer is now changed to,
Me and my team come up with a game design,
Art team handle the visuals.
I've got a small team together specialized at gameplay design, we're adamant we're keeping small, so we've been running over a design for a 3rd person scrolling space ship shooter... think gummy ships from Kingdom Hearts but without the immense ship creation. Just a heads up for anyone who may consider the deal.
When you are starting up and have no code written or a concept of software / game hinted out to the market. There isnt much you can get from it because mostly it will be identical to something that was already marketed. And especially when you are starting up an independent game studio or creating games as a hobby.
I say this in my 2 cents because I peruse the same goal as OP. Only difference is, I am doing it on my own, including 3d arts and all, and intend to start a small game studio on my own.