Face modeling need help + critique

HAL

Ok you may have seen that traffic accident of a face over in the waywo thread and like slaught pointed out and a lot of others did as well it sucks and kinda destroys the whole piece.

So before I get into fixing the mesh itself this will be an error analysis and when Im done with this (and figured out what to do with the hair) I'll fix it. so hopefully im done by the end of the week

Feel free to critique as much as you want and as harsh as you want as this will only improve this pice.

This is the current situation:


Made some paintovers:





Thanks for watching

Bibendum

The cranial mass of the skull is enormous, it's way too deep and the forehead slope is bizarre. The iris in the eyes is too small, the hairline is really off also.

The shapes of the features seem wrong also, especially the nose and eyes. The ridge of the nose isn't a box, it's more of a trapezoid. The sides of it slope into the cheeks.

Best suggestion would be to use more life reference.

HAL

Thanks Bibendum, really helpful

Ok grabbed a lot of Olivia wilde reference;

quite satisfied with the frontview, not with the side...

Neox

i would try something like this



right now the head looks pretty long in the side view

HAL

yep, noticed that as well, the hair isnt doing it a favor, and I'll move the head a bit backwards. Thanks!

MissMaddyTaylor

i did a quick paintover as well.

i changed the face some from the front but take what you'd like from it

HAL

Great feedback :angel:

I luv u guys

Moved the head a bit more backwards like Terrabite suggested and worked on the facial features; looks a bit old now but somehow... it looks cool :poly121:

jmt

You need to have less mass in the back of the head. Look at Neox's edit.
It seems like her eyeballs are too far apart, causing the skin around the eyes to be strangely shaped.
The corners of her mouth need to bend back more. The mouth pretty much bends along the shape of the teeth. Google image search "orthodontic models" or something. You could model in the teeth if you want. Also look at Neox's post for this.
There is an awkward-looking ridge around the edge of the mouth. The flesh around the mouth should curve in to the lips. The lack of this is causing a pouty, duck face look.
The forehead and face look too flat - almost like a cube. The light is catching this edge on the forehead in the 3/4 shot.
This is sort of nit-picking at this stage, but the scalp looks bumpy. This could be due to you going too high poly too quickly.
Andrew Loomis - Drawing the Head and Hands helped me a lot when I was learning about facial anatomy (not that I'm not still learning), but I think at this point what you need most is reference images. Find pictures of similar looking girls from a certain angle, put it beside an image of your model and analyze the overall shapes, defining features and angles. Model from good front/side reference images.

haikai

Your latest updates are better, but the entire foundational structure of the head is still off. I think you need to address the overall proportions before anything else. Neox's paintover is really something you should be comparing to more carefully because your head is still way too long in side view.

It really looks like a classic example of jumping into high levels of subdivisions too early. Block in as much of the larger forms at lower divisions to avoid getting caught up in detail too quickly. Squint your eyes and look at the values of your model compared to something like this: http://philippefaraut.com/store/reference-casts/female-planes-head.html

You're missing the more basic planes of the face and without that it won't matter how well the smaller features are modeled.

After the head, it's a good idea to try and do a finesse pass on the whole thing. Make sure that lines that are supposed to be straight ARE straight and not lumpy or wobbly. Again, I recommend stepping down in subdivisions and working your way up.

Slaught

First of all I'd like to know what kind of face you are going for?
Natural, pretty, super model, tough etc?

Right now I'm getting an evil queen vibe from her.
It's mostly due to her sharp features (nose, eyes, lips), the aged look from her somewhat pronounced naso labial folds, the shifty eyes with small irises and her smug facial expression.

If that's what your going for then good work.
There are still some problems with the anatomy but I think if you follow some of the crits it shouldn't be too hard to fix.

Your first paintover looks a lot better already from the front but don't be afraid of depth in the profile.
I see this a lot, square squashed faces which look unnatural because the profile is way too flat.

I'd also take another look at the hairline.
Hope to see updates soon!

HAL

Small update

went one sublevel down;

I dont know about the fronthead though, is it to high?

jmt: I adressed the eyes, moved them a bit together, seems to fix a lot, thx!
also changed the mass in the back of the head a bit works quite well I
think.
Also bended the corners of the mouth a bit inwards,
worked on the skull shape

haikai: Many many thanks for that head sculpture thing, thats brilliant!
Tried to work those regions in a bit (hopefully thats noticable)
Went one sub down and worked on the proportions, thx

slaught: I finally figured out ( yeah finally) that I'll be going for
a natural, more mature looking head fitting to the suit's higher
class design and tried to remove that evil looking stuff from
the head.

Thanks for the feedback everybody, I finally have the feeling all that head anatomy stuff is in a seizable reach.

Practice practice practice practice ;D

Also please ignore the neck and the ears, didnt adjust the eyeballs yet as well ;D

jmt

I meant to suggest moving the eye spheres, not the skin around the eyes. The balls seem out of place. I can see a gap in the profile and 3/4 shot.

HAL

Hm you've got a point there ;D

HAL

jmt: fixed, thx!

Finally feeling like getting somewhere

HAL

Ok awesome, Im satisfied with how the head looks like again, thx everybody for the great feedback!

up to the hair!

Cexar

The bottom lip doesn't feel right. it should like twist into the corners of the mouth.

jmt

You're extending the hair back way too much, like your original post.

The eyebrows are also weird.

HAL

Cexar: That really does depend on the reference you're using...

jmt: what exactly about the eyebrows?

jmt

The main thing is that the eyebrows are around two eye widths wide in the front shot.

Get some front on reference shots and compare. You won't be able to improve much unless you do this. Otherwise, it'll just be people telling you to fix stuff and then you doing it rather than knowing why.

ceebee

I agree about finding reference. Use images of clay sculpts people have done of busts (not just digital) something with simple lighting that'll show off the forms good. Try not to use diffusely lit photos of people as it's not as easy to see the plane changes of the head.

Seriously, as much reference as possible is KEY when you're learning anatomy and forms/masses. DO NOT OVERLOOK THIS ADVICE I used to think I could just sculpt willy nilly and think it'll turn out right, but now every time I start a project I compile a crapton of reference material.

Also, switch back and forth between perspective and orthographic in ZBrush. ZBrush's perspective is stupid so you'll want to try and get it looking right from all directions and with/without perspective.

AND LISTEN TO THIS MAN FOR GOD'S SAKE:

jmt wrote: »

Get some front on reference shots and compare. You won't be able to improve much unless you do this. Otherwise, it'll just be people telling you to fix stuff and then you doing it rather than knowing why.

Saman

Yes, I agree about finding reference. The best reference would be either clay sculpts, as ceebee says, with one simple color so you can see the surface clearly and not get confused by painted parts or find a 3d model and compare. You have to study each part well to know what you've done wrong. There are some free 3d models on the net, just google some and you'll find em.
Anatomy pictures should prove useful for you too, if you know what muscles are there then you can use the clay tube tool(zbrush) to paint in those muscles and then just smooth them out.


Good luck!

HAL

I completely agree with all of you here. I tried to work that way already ;D the problem for me was that I looked for like 2 months at that first head and kinda arranged myself with it's look. BIG mistake.

Finding good usable reference is not that easy as most portraits on deviant art and comparable sites or so are done with tons of makeup and assumable as much photoshop.

What jmt said about the front shot and comparing is what I did with it.

It was never my intention to have people telling me whats wrong and whats not to fix it; thats like only fixing symptoms in my view.

ceebee: That was done in mudbox with perspective enabled, will check if something's wonky going on with it's settings, thanks!

MM

these should be very helpful if you can get your hands on them. either way it would still help if you just sit down and study the sculpture images, the light and shadow to understand the anatomical structure of male/female face. once you have a good grasp of the fundamental shapes then you can make any face styles.





http://philippefaraut.com/store/reference-casts/female-planes-head.html#

HAL

Thats the one haikai posted, its awesome! thx though ;D