Why do we loathe game resellers yet support them?
polycounter lvl 17
This question has been on my mind lately, especially when bouncing between discussions with fellow game biz folks or here, where we constantly acknowledge the fact that used games sales are hurting the industry and seeing videos on Gametrailers, IGN, etc. Stores like Gamestop where they put a lot of effort into encouraging people to sell their brand new games so the store can get all the profit from a "used" game at $55 because it's had a few days of use from a customer. This is obviously digging into the profits of publishers and us as developers by extension.
...then why is it I constantly see games with preorder exclusives for Gamestop? Why are developers making extra content for people who preorder thru Gamestop when we do not like Gamestop?
We shouldn't be encouraging people to go to the store where it's going to tell the customers "trade it in ASAP!" Why are publishers and developers agreeing to this? Is the increase in sales thru those exclusive offers really worth it when we are feeding the profits of stores that are taking away profits from us?
...then why is it I constantly see games with preorder exclusives for Gamestop? Why are developers making extra content for people who preorder thru Gamestop when we do not like Gamestop?
We shouldn't be encouraging people to go to the store where it's going to tell the customers "trade it in ASAP!" Why are publishers and developers agreeing to this? Is the increase in sales thru those exclusive offers really worth it when we are feeding the profits of stores that are taking away profits from us?
Replies
the funny thing is having worked for gamestop back when i was in highschool I know they usually ship a few extra units more than their pre-order numbers to each store so when they run out the employee can stress the importance of pre-ordering the game to avoid dissapointment next time. the funny thing is you can walk next door to bestbuy and usually find a stack of 50 or so of that title waiting for you. I never buy any games from them.....ever, beacause having worked for them I know they are complete cunts to both their employees and their customers.
To cut them out would mean cutting a significant portion of sales, and no game, big or small, can really afford to do that.
"If you want us to stock a decent amount of your game you have to give us special incentives that drives more customers to our store's for the initial sales which we can then buy back a week later for a little over cost and then re-sell for 95% ($% less for used) profit."
While the publisher/dev still gets paid for most of the copies they ship to the store, they see nothing from the used sales. People like to argue that those people might not have bought the game otherwise, even if 20% of them did it's still 20% more sales.
Not entirely unlike how microsoft pushes console development over pc because they get a % of every console game sold (new) but not from retail pc sales; unless they're the publisher. As a form of artistic entertainment, this model is stifling and crappy, as a form of business this is good business
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/used-games-david-braben,news-2874.html
My opinion:
I think anything and everything should be allowed to be resold, why should the games industry be above that (also Autodesk). Someone has to buy it at retail price initially. Once they buy it they should be allowed to do whatever they like with it. Including reselling. Imagine if you weren't allowed to resell your car or whatever. I've been buying pre owned games forever. These days I usually buy on release or wait for sales and mostly I buy on Steam. But I still like to pick up old PS1,PS2 and XBox games that I missed first time round and I wouldnt be able to do that without places like GameStation or Amazon (used).
Actually. I recall someone who was selling a shit load of games on Steam won a case allowing him to resell his entire account. Not that I'd do it, but is that still allowed?
Well no. But thats down to the morals of the person selling it. It would be against copyright law to copy it for reasons other than making a back up of something you own. Once its sold any copies or back ups should be sold with it. It no longer belongs to the seller.
Queue another copyright debate thread.....
Christ, not again..
Piracy is not stealing!
Yes it is.
No it's not!
It's a crime.
But it shouldnt be!
Yes, it should.
No.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
Ad nauseum.
It bores me ever so much..
Every pre-order is a game not sold used, every pre-order bonus is something second-hand sales won't get.
Giving these to gamestop and the likes halts their used-sales machinery a bit.
I will make one point is that some games, especially older ones, are pretty hard to come by. When I do buy used it's usually because a game is out of circulation and hard to come by at any other store. I know I've found some PS2 gems that just aren't sold on the shelves at major retailers.
I think people get bent out of shape with used games because it directly affects them. Ask yourself this. Does it bother you that any other goods are sold secondhand? Do those of you who hate Gamestop because of this also hate used cars, garage sales and Goodwill stores as well? Have you never had to buy used textbooks at college? I always make an effort to buy new to support my industry, but it doesn't bother me that Gamestop exists because they made a solid business model for themselves.
It's a good point, but it has sadly never been the focus of gamestop to carry old rare games, they deal in selling used new games, what's still in the stores is usually used games they never managed to sell.
For me it's not about selling used games, I have no problem with that, the problem is that their focus is selling used games that still hasn't even left the shelves, they're directly cutting into the first week(s) profit, while at the same time driving their competition into the ground (the used games stores that didn't use this tactic, that sold truly old used games)
Every gamer has internet, anyway, for those who don't they can pick up your game at Walmart, who probably sells more consoles and games than Gamestop, anway.
Why. In. The. Fuck. Are you supporting a dying business paradigm? Gamestop?! Has anyone been to a Gamestop lately? They used to be special, because they had games when others didn't. Now those same games can be purchased ANYWHERE.
Protip: Gamestop is the next Blockbuster.
linkage
which is good because digital is where we've seen the rise of lower priced games.
There is NO reason to treat Gamestop as if it is either indispensable or even a necessary evil. It is on the way OUT, and hamstringing yourself now to try to please a dying business paradigm, that is on the short road to bankruptcy, and waiting until said bankruptcy to deal with this issue is just a piss-poor management strategy.
I think it's possible that game companies are waiting for digital sales to continue to grow before they make the move to cut out game boutiques, but as long as there is the option to buy used games, the customer base is going to be split and digital sales will be hampered.
Hopefully the next series of consoles will be born with this idea fully formed and follow closely what Steam has done. If we get more piss poor storefronts and horribly managed price schemes I don't think they'll do as well. We need better hardware sure, but we also need much smarter delivery systems.
If they had thought about it and really put a focus on delivering content digitally they could of been the driving force in digital movie rentals instead of it being tacked on after the fact.
But in the case of, say, Splatterhouse, which is a game I don't have, but do want, I'm not paying $60 for it. It's out at Wal-e-world, but I really don't want to spend the $60, when I can find it at my local used game shop for half that. No I don't go to gamestop, EVER. Is that really hurting the games industry? Maybe. Is it helping me put a little more in the tank? Hell yes. And to me, that matters a whole hell of a lot more than lining the pockets of an already rich industry.
I know that's not popular here, but the fact remains, I got bills to pay and anything within reason I can do to help me pay those bills, is a good thing. No I don't NEED to buy games to live, but I do to keep even a little relevant in the industry. I do need to buy them to help keep my sanity as a human, as well. As I'm sure we all know, we NEED entertainment. Without it, we go a little mad sometimes.
I don't have a problem with it, because it's reality.
People got bills to pay, and games are a want not a need.
Eliminate used games and game companies can reduce prices, sell more, and actually make more money, or they can keep selling games for more than people are willing to, or can afford to, pay, forcing said customers to buy used if at all, and causing the game companies to miss out on sales.
But I guess "shut up mom I'm working on my career, die die die Nazi robots!" sounds like a good retort to "when are you going to get a job"
[EDIT] Nice ninja-edit, just to try and twist that knife a little more, Mark.
What I believe is that if used game stores didn't exist, new games could be offered for a lower price when they first came out. It's better for game companies to sell two copies @ $35 than one copy for $60 that gets resold as a used game.
Splatterhouse should never have been $60. I mean, seriously, sixty fucking dollars? Have we lost our collective minds?! I know that worth is subject, but $60 for new games is alot to ask of people, especially with the way things are financially for so many.
Does anyone really wonder why used games are so popular?
That said, this industry could definitely benefit from a little more independence from the retail chain, and a bit more price flexibility on top of that. This is part of the reason why I like and use Steam.
At the end of the day, being able to re-sell games is good for the consumer. However, what isn't good is an entire industry-leading company that has based their business solely on exploiting the hell out of re-selling games. If you take GameStop out of the equation, you would still be able to sell your games. But probably to your friends and neighbors, instead of to a faceless corporation intent on squeezing every dollar they can from you, and the game industry at large.
A company like GameStop is a leech, bleeding this industry dry, while contributing next to nothing. Their only real product is providing a centralized hub for selling and purchasing used games. As a retail chain for new games, they are completely superfluous. Any number of other companies are doing a better job of hocking fresh titles. And in the process, GameStop is fostering negative industry trends that are limiting what interactive entertainment could potentially become.
Steam's storefront model is a good place to draw inspiration from. They fully appreciate the gravity of price elasticity of games and frequently take advantage of it. This often results in making sales that never would have happened following the old retail model. As to the added value, Steam offers something that GameStop cannot: Online storage and portability of purchased games. Steam gives every customer the ability to download their purchased games repeatedly to any system so long as they log in to their account to verify the game. This gives gamers massive flexibility to play their games on any suitable computer they have access to. It also removes the necessity for gamers to retain the boxes and discs that are used to install those games, resulting in less waste and clutter. In that sense, it's ecologically friendly.
This system could also be applied to consoles. They already do it for the PSN, XBLA, and WiiWare. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to apply it to major releases as well. If they would simply produce consoles that are designed around a large storage system, there would be no need for discs and no way to resell games. This tends to be difficult in the face of people who don't have high bandwidth connections and are limited by data caps, but if the games industry is dedicated enough, they might be able to push ISP's and the government to make broadband internet more accessible, more open, and cheaper for everyone.
I think focusing on digital distribution of games will provide new opportunities for the industry and can provide better for the satisfaction of the gamers than the retail model ever did. The only people left utilizing games purchased at retail are people that can afford or can get fast internet. For those people, the retail model is all they have and they will likely rely on used games to get the lower prices, unless publishers simply slash prices on their retail copies to the point that nullifies any advantage that GameStop has by selling used over new.