Possible that there are too many environment artists?
polycounter lvl 12
Something I have been wondering about... I have always been told that "Everyone wants to be a character artist." and that it would be too difficult to get into that part of the industry without some serious skill because there is soooo much competition and so few jobs.
Well... what about environments? Yeah I understand that with technology increasing we are really needing more and more environment artists because the levels keep getting bigger and bigger. But there are so many threads here on polycount targeted to environment.
Is it possible that their could eventually be too many people trying to be an environment modeler?
Do you think jobs are just going to keep getting more and more specialized? An extreme example would be "yeah I am a rock modeler... I specialize in modeling rocks and cliffsides."
And I know it will probably be said... there are too many people trying to get into the the industry.
Competition is getting thick... (not that I worry about not being able to get a job) lol Just wondering what everyone else thinks.
Well... what about environments? Yeah I understand that with technology increasing we are really needing more and more environment artists because the levels keep getting bigger and bigger. But there are so many threads here on polycount targeted to environment.
Is it possible that their could eventually be too many people trying to be an environment modeler?
Do you think jobs are just going to keep getting more and more specialized? An extreme example would be "yeah I am a rock modeler... I specialize in modeling rocks and cliffsides."
And I know it will probably be said... there are too many people trying to get into the the industry.
Competition is getting thick... (not that I worry about not being able to get a job) lol Just wondering what everyone else thinks.
Replies
About it getting specialized. Nah. My experiences tell me they want people that can do anything and everything. If you're good enough at something you might become the go to "Vehicle guy" or go to "Awesome tree-maker" guy.
As always tho, there's never a correct answer. There's always a studio out there with different work practices, i've just never seen one. At most it's something along the lines oof Environment artist, Vehicle artist, Weapon artist, Prop artist. Not tree, rock, mouse, door-artist.
So eh, wouldn't worry.
That is a bit scary considering the type of girl I am with... lol
but I appreciate you guys sharing. Nice to get some other point of views...
The video game industry is a difficult industry to become a part of, and there's heavy competition everywhere, but I think if you continue to be dedicated and do your best, you'll get there.
Being an environment artist is so different then a prop artist on so many levels. Really you have to become an environment artist at a game studio to fully understand what a production environment artist is. There is also a different between large Triple A projects (referring to money spent on the project, in terms of team size, marketing and production not the just quality) and smaller indie teams.
Example. A prop artist can spend days/weeks creating an asset unqiue asset with a lot of chracter, detail and story. An environment artist also dose thing but on a diffrent scale. Instead of just 1 asset they are doing it for an entire level where they need to put that character, detail and story in.
They also have to work close with design on how to keep the level flow working well to guide the player through the level so they don't get lost in all the art. Highlight certain areas of interest that the majority of players will see and also highlight the path players must take without it being like "hey follow this yellow blinking light in this jungle" They need to make sure the way they height light the game path follows the direction of the art but stands out enough and not to much for players to realize this is the way to go.
Environment artist must also play optimization masters when detailing with there level and have to carry the burden of lots of technical components such collision, maximizing level streaming in there level, areas too occlude others, lighting parameters, over draw from foliage, how many verts on screen at one time, texture budget, balance of foreground elements (characters, weapons, vehicles) and background elements (basically the environment, shaders and partials) are allotted for each section of your level to keep a consistent frame rate, so on and so forth.
This is something most students, and at the time, myself included, dont really seem to realize. Mainly due to the way things are taught at schools and the way a lot of artists do personal environment pieces. In school its more of a focus on unqiue props all having there own unqiue textures and shaders. A lot of environment artists when doing personal projects from what I have seen dont stick to the rules and constraints they are forced too when working on a production environment. They can unqiue map everything to make a stunning 1 shot environment, use super high texture rez maps as they dont have to budget in characters, frame rate, level length. Its all about making the best looking environment possible.
As a production environment artist its about making the best looking environment possible while add hearing to a whole lot of constraints to make the game its very best. Gameplay is ALWAYS king.
So just to wrap this up without talking for another hour, the reason it seems like there are a lot of "environment artists" is because students label themselves so even when most dont fit the model of "environment artist". This is fine and all if thats the job they want in the end but they should realize that for the most part, what they are doing is that of a prop artist and not actually environment artist.
Anyway. There's always going to be more demand for environment artists. It's just the nature of the job. They have more work to do than the character artists and their stuff is going to take up about 90% of all the visuals in most games.
Hahaha so true Swizz :P
I guess environment vs character submissions ratio could speak for something. Just browse for a couple of pages.
So I wouldn't be too worried, and yeah, okkun is on the money right there.
Personally, character art bores me to death
Okay, I have no idea how that thought kept rolling out like that, bit off topic
*(NOT that derivative work is bad or low quality '90% of art is theft' etc. etc.)
+1
The 3D/game industry is a buyers market and it's a saturated one.
every project requires different styles, different skills.
from the hiring standpoint, there's a lot more resumes, but it's still just as difficult finding the right guys.
Plus we can't expect every student or every regular joe to be awesome after Uni, or even awesome after they've landed their first job. People grow at different paces, what we need to look at is the willingness to learn, dedication, their hard-work and I guess to some extent their natural talent for art.
But hey maybe that's just me
We see a lot of layoffs, yes, but we also see people getting hired on a daily basis, it's a growing industry my friends!
Now with that said, do you think we should be trying to promote ourselves as Prop Artist as opposed to Environment Artist?
This is a good thing.
It means lots of pros can point to polycount as the definitive place to look for people doing cool game art and environment art in particular because most sites focus more on characters.
At the same time, yes it is getting tougher out there, the standards are getting higher and theres nothing to be done about that other than logging the hours and refining your craft!
i agree with that. however there is some bit that causes need for limitation. if someone is working at a AAA studio, it is very doubtful (im only assuming because of.. well.. being realistic) that a person will work on both characters and environments/props.
now that doesnt mean that just because your job dictates you do environments, that you cant just do some characters for fun. i know that im not great at characters, but whenever i have some free time i like to dabble around with zbrush and try to come up with some fun busts or whatnot.
tho i have done some work for a small company that is just starting up, and while i was there, i was 1 of 4 people working on a demo. for the most part i was tossed whatever work needed to be done, be it modeling props, unwrapping characters, texturing, and level layout. things like that are expected from most small companies i guess.. or even outsourcing companies such as Liquid, 3Point, or any others.
in regards to graduating students.. well i guess it depends on the university.. mine however requires specialization. some of the instructors have always said "be a generalist" but thats because its what they did when they had jobs. one of my instructors once said "im not the best at one thing, but im amazingly mediocre at everything." now that statement kind of scared me at first, but then when i learned he worked for smaller companies that had a team of (at most) 15 people, i understood. he gives students the impression that they will never be successful in the industry unless they open up to all aspects of work.
now that bit i dont agree with.. because id say for the first couple years of university.. you need to learn everything so you can know what you are interested in.. but after that.. id say stick to one thing and make yourself extremely kick-ass at that.. once you have achieved that.. move on if you'd like. after a while, it seems that the best environment artist will keep giving the same sort of work, getting slightly better as they go.. it would be interesting to see how they can manipulate their skills to characters (example: how awesome would it be to see kevin johnstone do a charater for gears!)
one person's portfolio i often look at is Tor Frick ( www.torfrick.com )
id say he is someone who has mastered generalization.
like chris said.. it is all about dedication, and from my point of view as a student.. there are a lot of students out there, or just generally people who want to be in the industry, but there's only a handful of those who actually have the dedication to pursue a career after they graduate.
Yeah of course, I'm just saying in my point of view I wouldn't mind seeing a person trying out different things. Most things art-related skills are transferable. And yes Tor Frick has an awesome portfolio and skills, def a favorite of mine.
I completely agree with this statement.
To add on top of all the "are you good at env art or not" line of thought... To be a good env artist, you must understand the tech side of things, you must learn how to manage budgets, learn a bit about lighting, vfx, design ect to compose your level to its maximum potential. Its never as easy as making a pretty picture and getting highered. Its why HR gun for people with nice shipped titles, it means they can do the art AND the tech required to ship a high quality game.
My hubble suggestion is take any and all job opportunities that come your way and start working on actual experience. It will instantly seperate you from the crowd. Freelance is a great place to start. Then try to get in at a small company of some kind. This might mean having to move to another country, so make sure you have a degree for a visa. From there ship something, and update your portfolio again. Start applying yet again, and do the process over and over till you wind up at your dream studio.
+2
Unfortunately most game schools don't teach this stuff, either because they are not up to speed with industry pipelines, or because they are more focused on making students pump out pretty art. However I think a student can always demonstrate that he/she has limitations in mind when doing their artwork. That means limiting the use of 1 to 1 textures to important objects, watching polycount, thinking up some sort of gameplay scenario related to their environment piece, etc. And of course showing that they have good art skills in general.
In college they told students to pick a direction, either environment or character, and although character artists are looked at as the rockstars of the industry I feel that environment artists have a better understanding of working within the expected limitations and understand a wider spectrum of real-time-know-how. In college environment artists were stamped and branded as being the lesser tier in the grand scheme of things, which is wrong, because environment artists build more than pretty pictures. Its about designing level layouts which are well thought out, using vfx and animations to enhance the scene, knowing the engine, being conscience of the many limitations of working in games and the technical know-how that goes along with it. In my opinion their may be more environment artists then character, but that's because it's a better chance of being hired because they're more in demand, but you're right, as the industry floods with new artists it's everyone's responsibility to log the hours and keep up with the times. The constant needs to learn and absorb new skills and techniques for work is what makes this a career I want to be a part of, if the constant need to learn new ways turns someone off they're in the wrong business.
Dedicatation is definitely the key to the craft, and the demeaning environment artist stereotype that has been built up around the industry needs go away. Environment artists make our industry world a reality.
There is always time to add subtle detail to tell some type of story to the user that hey this once was lived in. I say don't worry about the other enviroment artists out there and worry about making your work stand out from the pack. If you think there is alot of enviroment artists out there take a look at some of their folios and find out what pattern they are modeling their porfolios after and move away from that genre or style then.
If you have what it takes to make it as an enviroment artist your work will speak for itself, if your unsure then just post here and the gurus like Kevin and Tor will be more the happy to point you in the right direction I'm sure.
Autocon... +1
great post