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[CE3] Fort Highness & Valley

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  • kn0r
    I'm with Zipfinator on this one, previous lighting looked and felt better, lacks that certain kind of punch your previous lighting did had.

    Might've been already said but imo the scene could benefit from some color touches, such as banners/flags and what not. But reckon you already thought of that and saving it for polish.

    Other than that, looks great, can't wait for more updates!
  • Jessica Dinh
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    Jessica Dinh polycounter lvl 10
    I want to play this map sooo bad. i want to jump in the pools and climb the stairs and run all over the place!!! :D:D
  • Jenn0_Bing
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    Jenn0_Bing polycounter lvl 7
    Hah, me too Jessica. I agree with the lighting comments, I much preferred the warm tones.
  • [HP]
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    [HP] polycounter lvl 13
    Been following this really closely so far! :) Good progresses!
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Background update, I also remade the lighting again, a good compromise between cold and warm ones imo.

    Thanks every one for the feedback, it's been really useful.

    So I played with the background, I didnt want the mountaintop behind the fortress to be just terrain, so I created a mesh for it, that also helps connecting the ridge to the castle meshes. Texel ratio is not meant to be seen from close but it does a great job even when looking at it from the castle.

    It still needs texture tweaks like everything in this map :poly127:, and if you have critiques on it that doesn't require a restart the mesh I'm up for it.


    BG(I need to rework the nrm before I can show the lit side):
    valley_069.jpg

    Lighting shot:
    valley_067.jpg

    I also changed some SSAO parameters as well (mainly its processing radius, only visible in the first shot) to get a lighting closer to what Unreal does when it bake AO in lightmaps.
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    The mountain looks pretty boss to me. Is it all uniquely unwrapped or just tiling with some sort of vertex blending? The only part that catches my eye is where it blends into the terrain but that looks like an area that won't be visible or you haven't worked on yet. The lighting looks much better to me now too. It is a good balance between the two previous iterations.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    How would you unwrap something like that mountain so that the wind erosion lines are horizontal (Is it a blended second UV set?)? For terrain I usually start with sculpted plane, then follow up with a quick planar map and a face angle relax, I think that is similar to how the cryengine does terrain, but that doesn't sound to good for mountains. I imagine thats why you went with a static mesh huh?

    Did you make the textures yourself as well? Any tips for making that kind of rock texture?
  • re.wind
    Holy snap, crackle, and pop! o_O

    Some extraordinarily good stuff (and improvements) paroxum.


    For some reason i'm being reminded of farcry 2... I think its the semi-desert setting.
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Zipfinator: Thanks man, yes it's uniquely unwrapped. Its texture is currently 2048 but it could end being 1024 with some dof. The place where it meet the terrain wont be seen by the player that much but I can cover it up later on if I want a shot there. =)

    Computron: Well, long story short it's a plane displaced and UV relaxed, I then took that into 3Dcoat. Because it's obviously pain in the ass to paint such lines in PS. Cry engine terrain works all right on mountains since you can use 3D materials. I just keep that for very far peaks atm.

    re.wind: Cheers, glad you like it. Yeah I too have this farcry2 feeling. Is it bad?

    Few more shots, I worked on background forests, which are a few alphacards really, cliff polishes where it meets terrain and minor bridges hole caps.

    Still focusing more on the big picture than player scale at this stage and It's starting to blend together pretty well at some places now.

    valley_070.jpg

    valley_072.jpg

    valley_073.jpg

    valley_074.jpg
  • Oniram
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    Oniram polycounter lvl 15
    i think this scene looked much better with that orangy saturated look. it helped the areas in shadow pop a bit more. still looks great tho. :)
  • Skillmister
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    Skillmister polycounter lvl 11
    That 2nd shot is very close to perfection :)
  • re.wind
    You've out-classed far cry 2 by miles mate, don't worry about it :D

    the tall bridge on the left side of image valley_73 really looks out of place now. I don't think a Roman aqueduct style would fix it much as the bridge is much higher than its length.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Wait, you painted the mountains in 3dCoat? So your not using tiling textures for the mountain? Is this something they do in production as well? it seems wastefull. Also, are those trees made by you?
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Computron: It can be made in production I guess if you need very specific mountain top for example. It could have used tiling textures and blends if it was somewhat in UDK and I could blend more than two textures.

    And yes, the trees are mine, but need refining, as they are quite low poly/blocky atm.

    re.wind: Thanks for the feedback, I too feel that bridge is out of place, I'll look into replacing it by something more interesting for the composition of the image. ;)
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Update, I think it is big tho still not completed. I went into the process of remaking most of the textures after looking at some of the refs I had in my folder and completely bypassed till now. When I started the project I really wanted something colorful, I guess the result I had till now was the effect of not sticking enough to the refs.

    Here's one of the pics I based this update on:

    2havasufallslightened.jpg

    Amongst other things, remodelled waterfalls on the front, added watersplash on the surface, moss decals,etc. I hope a lot more is to come. The pebble texture is temp, I will sculpt one.

    valley_076.jpg

    valley_077.jpg

    Also planned is model a uniuque mesh for the two big waterfalls cliff (and redo waterfalls there as well) because atm it's still modular meshes and blends have little sense on them/can't have proper AO
  • Alberto Rdrgz
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    Alberto Rdrgz polycounter lvl 9
    Maybe loose the palm trees? i think the reference is great, but i think whats missing in your scene is those nice thick lush areas that could serve as a spot for the eyes to settle. apart from that looking forward to the new waterfalls!

    great job dood!
  • re.wind
    you could always convert* them to a date palm tree which would fit the setting better than tropical palm trees.

    I also like the new environment direction you're going. Compared to this, your previous images almost feel...washed out and brown. :-\




    *aka make a proper date palm tree
  • toxic_h2o
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    toxic_h2o polycounter lvl 8
    Yeah, I'm loving the blue water, its so much nicer than the old color. :)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Looking Good :) :thumbup:
  • cupsster
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    cupsster polycounter lvl 11
    maybe you can use something like this for waterfalls and animate outer white splashes UV sliding..
  • beancube
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    beancube polycounter lvl 17
    Nice update man, looks 10x better. The turquoise color really pops everything out.
  • Perfectblue
    ParoXum- I am beginning to learn environmental creation and was wondering if you could provide some insight.

    For the general terrain shown in the screen shot below, was this done in max as well or with some sort of terrain topology tools in CE3?

    Is the general terrain unrwapped in a similar manner as the cliff in the time lapse video?

    Blue= "general terrain"
    blueterrain.jpg


    Thanks for creating a time lapse for the cliff and any additional insight!
  • kn0r
    Looks great, glad you went back to the more warmer lighting.

    Only crit I have is those bridge arches, they feel a bit crowded, maybe make 'em wider to open up the views more.
  • Jenn0_Bing
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    Jenn0_Bing polycounter lvl 7
    The update to those pools is great, looks like an excellent place to take a dip!
  • Valerien
    Wow, your work is really neat !
  • polyly
    Great! But old waterfalls are better! :D
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    @Perfect Blue The terrain is based off of a height map that is made/imported in cryengine. It is unwrapped as a plane from the top down. When he makes mountains, the material system uses a method similar to blended box mapping to automatically project and seamlessly blend non stretchy textures. no uv unwrapping necessary. Only the set piece mountain from his earlier post is custom unwrapped. He explains it a few posts up. The blue mesh in 3ds max is most likely an exported version of his heightmap displacing a plane. It serves as a guide for him to make things like that cliff faces.
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Yes Perfectblue, what Computron said.

    I've been working on the main waterfalls cliffs and waterfalls themselves, tried to find the perfect way to make the waterfalls without using particles.. Because I'm a lazy ass =D So, I experimented with alpha tested shader and came back to translucent shader, and after much attemps on poly strip modelling I settled for this:

    A mix of alpha tested and translucent falls together. The tested one simulates the rough water stream and particles, while the softer one creates a mist fall around it.

    Alpha tested only:
    valley_080.jpg
    Both:
    valley_082.jpg

    For the mesh, I used a 4 crossed planes strip, twisted, so that when you look up or down you always keep volume and see less crossing imho:

    valley_083.jpg
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    So bright, kinda looks wrong.
  • re.wind
    I'll take it over dull grey-brown desaturated DUST maps any time. :p
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    I say keep is as it is, at least for now, it looks great, nice improvement, it may be 2-5% too bright, but not much.
  • felipefrango
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    felipefrango polycounter lvl 9
    This is simply one of the most jaw-dropping environments I've ever seen. Congratulations and thanks for the technical insights. :D
  • cupsster
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    cupsster polycounter lvl 11
    nice approach with that twisted thingy.. must try it myself.. i remember something like this from some udk tutorial about creating highly realistic steam sources.. :)
  • Kyuzo
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    Kyuzo polycounter lvl 12
    Hi, very inspiring work!
    don't know how i missed this thread before.. have read it from begining and have some noob questions that i didn't realized.

    1. Your brick wall, is it modeled as separate bricks or a plane with tileable 3d texture?(as i remember, there was a post about high polycount on walls, would be great to look at wires :icon15:)
    But as i can understand from your post, there are just tileable texture, But this with separate bricks makes me doubt.. but i think his model is simply not for game engine.

    2. on texture creation
    I usually make a pattern study in PS, from mixed photo sourced rocks tex. When I find an interesting one I change it into an displacement map that I can sculpt later on in ZB. Since the sculpt then already tile, I just have to keep at it with the warpmode on each brush I use, then bake it and job done, tiling sculpt.

    Very often I have a totally different sculpt from what the reference photo used to be, and it's good since that means you really created something new in the end.
    So you import displace map to ZB, then apply DispMap to high divided plane, sculpt that you want and then bake normal map? and same with say bricks/rock/whatelse tileable textures?

    i'm in search for methods of texturing, and atm think about how to texture wood stockade/log walls/plank walls/roof tile and stone walls/rocks for sure

    can't wait for yours wooden houses :P
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Cupsster, felipefrango: good to hear it's been useful :)

    Thanks Kyuzo, first about the brick wall it was a single brick sculpt, duplicated in max to create the tiling HP wall, not to mix with the texturing, where I used tiled patterns to achieve the look.

    As for the pattern study, I only do this with very fractal-like textures, like rock surface or uneven bricks walls.

    About wood, I almost never sculpt any since the res needed for having realistic fibers in a sculpt is outrageous. Unless you go for a stylized look. What's good for wood sculpting when you're attempting a realistic look on a very specific shape is to sculpt the low frequency and blend in crazybump'ed high frequencies together.
  • felipefrango
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    felipefrango polycounter lvl 9
    Saw this today and remembered your scene, thought it could be good reference.

    tumblr_lu56audFne1qkwunuo1_500.jpg
  • re.wind
    Are you sure that is real? its bloody amazing.
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Yeah looking amazing. It's a shame it's a bit late to add more of this to the scene without expanding too much. =)

    Looks like a good ref for the overgrowth I want to put over my cliffs, saved.
  • Kyuzo
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    Kyuzo polycounter lvl 12
    ParoXum, thank you for answer!
    ParoXum wrote: »
    first about the brick wall it was a single brick sculpt, duplicated in max to create the tiling HP wall, not to mix with the texturing, where I used tiled patterns to achieve the look.
    so brick wall is made of tileable meshes where each brick is a unique/duplicated mesh, and have individual texture for it? And LP mesh made by optimizing HP? details from HP mesh baked and mixed in normal map for LP? and where are tileable textures used?
    as i understand there are not only rock/rock wall tileables, but also brick ones.
    ParoXum wrote: »
    As for the pattern study, I only do this with very fractal-like textures, like rock surface or uneven bricks walls.
    as "uneven brick walls" you meant something like this:
    http://cgtextures.com/textures.php?t=browse&q=90
    or surface?

    sorry for being dumb, but explanation really needed :S
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    No, I use a single brick and instance it for a complete wall. Nothing's textured at that stage.


    And yes, that's what I meant by uneven.
  • Clark Coots
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    Clark Coots polycounter lvl 12
    for the waterfall, do the twisted/crossed polys make up the entire waterfall so you have to custom make each waterfall? or is it a small chunk that you repeat and how big are the pieces? How do you animate it if it's not particles? Do you just animate a loop in your 3D package and import as if it's a looping walk cycle basically?
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    coots7, it's a unique mesh per waterfall at the moment. Tho I can scale some of them to fit others, but to get the best result, I should model a custom one for each. It's just a normal UV'd mesh, all the scrolling happens in the shader, which is a waterfal shader (it's in the presets)
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    Everytme this post gets updated, I get exited. Updates!!!
  • lloyd
    I'm totally coming back to this thread! :O
  • Dragan
    great work flow for your cliffs! can't wait to see this finished. Good job!!!! =] book marking this thread!
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks guys for the support :P That's a hell of a boost when I come to post updates :)

    Small update for today, I was able to make most of the waterfalls with the same object, and I started working on the village houses textures. I feel like some of them look too stylized, would like feedback on the stonewall especially, maybe it just needs a photosource pass.

    valley_086.jpg
    valley_087.jpg
    valley_088.jpg

    valley_089.jpg

    I'm quite happy of the results with the thatched roof, slate roof texture still needs work at places but I can already make a good use of it.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    is there any kind of advanced vertex painting/blending in CRYSDK like in the 3d motive DVD for UDK?
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    yes, the blend layer shader will do that if you feed him a heightmap.
  • Computron
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    Computron polycounter lvl 7
    how do you paint it on the mesh? in a DCC tool? can it blend whole texture sets?
  • ParoXum
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    ParoXum polycounter lvl 9
    you can only blend two materials. It uses vertex alpha channel. And no, no in-editor painter which is a let down imo.
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