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Concept car project

tda
polycounter lvl 16
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tda polycounter lvl 16
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Sup guys. So, i made an Aston Martin DB9 to gran turismo 5 (ish) specifications a while back, maybe some of you remember it. I was really happy with the end result even though it was slightly unfinished in some places, so I'm starting another similar project. This time though i'm going with my own concept, i really wanna build my own car from the ground up.

This falls conveniently in line with a rather large uni assignment i have, so work on this should hopefully be frequent. The end result of this is hopefully going to be some kind of interactive 3D car showroom in UDK in a similar vein to that Forza4 kinect tech demo thing that was at E3, but nowhere near as good. That's a ways down the road yet though...

I've been sketching up some concepts for the last couple of days and i kinda hit one i liked today which i quickly rendered up, but i'll post the lot up here and you guys can let me know which ones you like best. Everything on the first page is pretty much garbage, but i like all of the ones on the 2nd page. Beware my lack of perspective contruction lines!

page1smd.jpg

page2sm.jpg

page3is.jpg

Replies

  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Designing a believable car is hard, especially a sportscar. I'd spend a lot of time on the concept phase, because I think you're not there yet. Every curve and line needs to be thought out so that the total image makes sense.

    i did some overpainting:

    262179t.jpg
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Great points dude, i agree. I'll definitely take those ideas with me for my next round of concepts.

    I'm thinking it'd probably help me a lot to try and design an appealing shape for the car around an imaginary space big enough for a driver and a passenger. Right now i have a tendancy to draw the wheels to establish some kind of rudimentary perspective, then i end up drawing the arches around the wheels and repeatedly pull the same shapes from them again and again which usually leads to really funky proportions. I need to break away from that.
  • bounchfx
    it also might be worth it to play around with shapes in 3D then screencap and paint over it, that way you know the perspective is down and it lets you focus on the important aspects of the cars shape
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    It's really hard to get flowing shapes in 3D blockout stage. I'd suggest just small quick thumbs, where you focus on the main design lines, making sure they connect and make sense. Maybe just work on side profiles a lot, as they're really easy to do.
  • Daniel Doerksen
    personally i think 8 has the most potential
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    I was thinking the same thing xoliul, keeping it smaller and simpler. This is actually a lot more challenging than i'd expected, i'm enjoying it.

    I grabbed my sketchbook and did some doodling in bed last night based on what you said, and then a bit more this morning. I'm quite fond of number 2 but it's got furai written all over it. I think all of these at least have some nice shapes, i didn't bother to keep the really bad ones

    page4sm.jpg

    I'm going to spend the rest of the day staring at the reference i've been collecting i think, then i'll do some drawings based on real cars to build up a bigger library of shapes to pull from.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    just some more crits:
    1: I feel this one is a bit weak proportionwise, still suffers from the same problems as the last painting. Also the ass feel quite disconnected from the rest, lifts up too quickly.
    2: this is getting somewhere, though i really recognize the Mazda Furai to much in here, try to refrain from copying too much like that. The side and rear views are the strongest, as I don't really dig the huge wide wheelarches, they seem impractical and too dominant. The rear has a bit of that mercedes CLK-GTR feel, while still looking fresh, that's the sort of feeling you want instead of too much of a direct copy.
    3: Interesting, package feels like it fits together, proportions look nimble and believable. Maybe still too much lift on the ass in the side view. I'd try and give this one slightly more of a unique character through secondary elements such as vents, lights or intakes as it feels kind of generic from the current sketch.
    4: feels too short and high, not the aggressive, low supercar feeling you want.
    5: too sharp and edgy, almost becomes cartoonesque, like a hotwheels toy car.

    I'd say 3 is the one with the most potential for now.
  • gsokol
    This is looking cool. Is this intended to be treated like a concept car? If so, you can take a few liberties in design, since a lot of concept cars usually feature radical elements/proportions that won't ever make it to production.

    Your Aston Martin was pretty awesome, so I have high expectations for this :) But definitely make sure you spend a lot of time on concept and get something solid before you start. Good luck.
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Xoliul - Thanks for the crits again, You seem to really know your cars. 3 was my favourite of that bunch as well although the top view needed work. I've done so many since those i've lost count but all of those i've posted so far look horrible, so hopefully that's a good sign.

    I'll have to pick your brains about car design sometime, you seem quite in tune with it. It's a lot harder than i gave it credit for.

    I've been super busy these past few weeks so this project has been kinda on the backburner. I had to find time this week though to quickly make a prototype of the interactive UDK scene im planning for some presentation i have to give. I made a quick film of the level to use while i talk as i'm 99% sure i won't be able to install the standalone level on Uni computers, so i'll post the vid here too so you guys can check it out. All the assets in the vid are of course temporary, it's just something to show where i'm headed and to make sure i can do what i want to do inside UDK.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPUerc82PBU[/ame]

    I'll be posting up the most recent batch of concepts i've done when i get time to scan em. Hopefully this weekend i should be able to find time to get closer to locking down a design that i like.
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    More more more. Getting a bit back on track with this project now. Here's some more stufff, the quality of the scans is really bad sorry.

    page5sm.jpg
    page6sm.jpg

    The first page is all trash. I really like number 3 of the 2nd bunch though. It has a number of influences i can immediately see in it, but i really like how it looks which is something that didn't happen with any of these others i've done. I could go on and do more quickies like these till i hit something else i like, but what i think im more likely to do is take this number 3 guy and do some variations of it, try out a different ideas on that established base shape and see what i can make of it.

    Glad to finally be makin some kind of progress.
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    tda wrote: »
    Xoliul - Thanks for the crits again, You seem to really know your cars. 3 was my favourite of that bunch as well although the top view needed work. I've done so many since those i've lost count but all of those i've posted so far look horrible, so hopefully that's a good sign.

    Hah no problem, it's fun that there's a thread like this for a change that gets into a design area where I can give some fun feedback.
    tda wrote: »
    I'll have to pick your brains about car design sometime, you seem quite in tune with it. It's a lot harder than i gave it credit for.

    This! People really tend to underestimate it, "it's just a car, tons of those around, how hard can it be?" ;) I personally think you need to be pretty darn good at replicating existing ones already (like you proved with your Aston) before you can really get into designing them yourself, just like with characters.

    On your new sketches:
    Definitely nr 3! This one is going the right way, the rest sorta pales in comparison. I love the Brera type headlights you have in there, definitely keepers, it's so different from the usual supercar type of headlights. Also immediately saw the XJ220'esque side profile, makes the sideview the strongest proportionwise. The front and back might need to be a tad wider, but that's hard to say without perspective shots.
    Definitely also try to fully exploit the "open/cut-off" rear, sort of like the McLaren F1 or Alfa tipo 33.2 Stradale
    I have to say the weakest part about it right now is how the nose seems too small in height, I wouldn't have it rise up (that much) towards the front. Perhaps have a look at the Reventon for proportions of the nose, it sort of reminds me of the same pointed shape.
  • Kitteh
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    Kitteh polycounter lvl 18
    number 3, definitely. I would move the wheels (front and back) forward an inch or two though. In my opinion, the front overhang of a car shouldn't be longer than the rear overhang.
  • Asteric
    Mike, engines can go in the rear of the car too :P
  • maxivz
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    maxivz interpolator
    Id go 5, that concept is really good ! it has a pagani zonda touch to it that makes it look great
    Btw, awsome work with the db9, it is one of the best works in polycount
  • zxcman
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    zxcman polycounter lvl 10
    i like that concepts
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Thanks for the feedback guys, i'm deffo going to be sticking with number 3 and trying out other stuff with that shape. Awesome comments again xoliul thanks :)

    I had a go at sketching other angles of the car earlier but it was taking too long just to make the perspective look right, so i decided to dive right in with a quick 3d mockup instead. Here's a preview of where im at after stopping tonight, playing with the the shapes and proportions a bit and just trying to get a feel for the overall mass.


    conceptwip1.jpg
  • Kitteh
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    Kitteh polycounter lvl 18
    Greenhouse could be taller imo, it looks too caricatured. Visibility wold probably be terrible. Also I can't help but think some kind of 45 degree light catcher sideskirt would look really good, kind of like this but smaller:

    0aaad_Maserati_GranSport_Spyder.jpg
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    I had to take a break away from this project over the last month to do some more urgent uni work and an art test(!), hopefully something good comes of that, but now things have settled down a bit i can get this ball rolling again.

    I spent last night working on getting the front end in roughly, i've also changed a few things proportionally that i wasn't super happy with and tweaked some elements of the design. Still heavy WIP, but looking much more how i want it to.

    34q5v8n.jpg

    edit : bit more. I'm liking this broken up look for the front much more, the other one had some serious underbite going on

    14y0sjq.jpg
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Progress, starting to really like some of the shapes

    xe3091.jpg
  • Snader
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    Snader polycounter lvl 15
    I think your taillights should follow the shape of the surrounding parts a bit more.
  • SnaFuBAR
    could i see some orthographic renders? i went to school for transportation design, and some stuff looks off.
  • 00Zero
    oooo. the front of your last render with the back of #8 on your first sketch would be gold. It would have a bit of that citroen GT vibe going on
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Cheers snader. The rear is the bit that i was working on when i stopped, it's since had a bit more attention put into it. I'm not 100% sure about these shapes but i kinda like em so far. Taking a lot of cues from the Citroen GT and Zonda-R with these carbon fibre shapes. 00Zero you took the words right outta my mouth :)

    2u7tvs1.jpg

    and here's those orthos snafu

    2d8gz8o.jpg
  • Kitteh
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    Kitteh polycounter lvl 18
    This is cool. Something seems quite off from the side view. I think your mid section is way too long, looks almost like it'd be a 4 door. Also, that bottom line between the wheels (the side skirt) should not curve up like that, it should be mostly flat. I've never seen a car do that and it looks odd.
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    You're right about that curvature kitteh, it does look weird. I straightened out the edge itself and fixed up the curves so it still keeps the look i'm after. As for the length, it's probably just an illusion because there's no panel seams to indicate scale. Granted it's a long car, but it's similar in length to an XJ220.

    I did a quick test of the doors to check out the curves in the body and how the interior fits which shows the scale a bit better. There's a few problems i need to address, probably going to raise the greenhouse just a touch and make some other tweaks. The red square is where the engine will sit.

    1jut8h.jpg
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Working on getting a rough shape for the interior ingrained in to my head so that i can get a rough model down and work from there. I quite like this one that i drew up, slapped some colour on it too. Glowy things means it must be high tech and futuristic right? :poly142:

    15gw8zo.jpg
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    slooooww progress. got a job in games (yay!) but now i have no free time (boo!)

    66vqxz.jpg
  • Kitteh
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    Kitteh polycounter lvl 18
    Something about the overall angle/shapes of the car looks like the entire thing is bent (middle higher than the front and back). The downward slope of the front and rear fascias, the upwards bend to the sideskirt, and the rather high middle of the beltline all contribute to this. Also, I still think it looks too long, even with the panel gaps. Plus your roofline/pillar looks strange, needs some more curvature instead of being a flat thing bent into a roof shape. I think if you shorten the entire midsection of the car by a few inches and bring the middle of the greenhouse (on the side, like the middle of the door) down a bit it'll look a lot better.
  • Dylan Brady
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    Dylan Brady polycounter lvl 9
    I like the dodge challeneger-esque rear end.
  • 3DVlad
    Im liking this car man, I think the reflection you used is rather busy and distracts from the shapes of the car itself. I know you probably did it to test for proper reflection-flow, but for presentation purposes a simpler hdr might be more effective
  • throttlekitty
    Looking nice, I'm not sure how I feel about the front end in profile, but I can't offer much suggestion right now. Definitely watching this thread, I've had a car design I've been popping around with for a while, it is hard! (going to have to wait until I have a working computer again, however.)
    Edit: Apparently I missed page 2 when I posted.
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Thanks a lot guys! And hey throttlekitty, long time no speak :)

    I've had nowhere near as much time as i wanted to work on this, been super busy with my new job these last few weeks. I found some time tonight though to add in some small quick things like the wingmirrors, a few more panel breaks and etc. I also had a stab at a custom rim design, but i don't like it. I think once i nail that down and make some bogus car logo for a badge i'm gonna have to call this done and render out some stuff. The deadline is just over a week away now.

    I threw in some lights and tried to get a nice raw viewport grab from max, as that's how i'm gonna present the end result (viewport rendered .avi). This is a raw grab from max with xoliul's shader doing all the hard work, no post.

    oa9d34.jpg
  • SnaFuBAR
    i love the form this has taken on. the angles are good, i love your surface transitions. I'd like to see a bit more of a compound shape through the area below the side windows, though. i'd also like to see a harder bone line through the side skirt area. something to match the hardness of bone line going from the door through the bottom of your c-pillar. i'd also play a bit with the radius of the bone line going from the front of the hood to the back.

    use the properties of light on surfaces to your advantage to really push the design language!
  • okkun
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    okkun polycounter lvl 18
    The curve on the front quarter panel looks a little out of place.

    Also back your camera up, cars look way cooler with longer lenses (unless it's a video game from the 90's)

    http://www.tuningnews.net/news/080327/premier4509-lamborghini-murcielago-01.jpg
  • c0ldhands
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    c0ldhands polycounter lvl 15
    Nice to see more car enthusiats in here, when it comes to design there are some small quirks that can be improved. The car has nice curves, what you need to adjust is some small stuff. Here is a pic with some suggestions:

    http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/calinescu/oa9d34_paintover.jpg?t=1303977482
  • dogzer
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    dogzer polycounter lvl 8
    I'm really loving this so far, keep it up!
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Hmm, can't say I agree with the majority of your suggestions, coldhands.
    The only one I think that have some merit is a slight tweak of the end of the hood bulge, at the front, and perhaps add some sort of rear wheel arch air intake.
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Thanks for the feedback dudes. The side intake is planned but i'm not sure yet what shape i want it to be so i'm putting it off. I quite like it without actually, after working on it like this for so long, but i'll be sure to try it out before i discard the idea. I'll try out straightening out the nose, I think i tried before but it looked real weird from other angles where the curvature of the bumper underneath protrudes beyond the bonnet.

    thanks for the tip about the camera okkun, i'll try out longer lenses when i get home.

    and xoliul, seriously dude, your shader.
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    Here it is, done at last. I had to take 2 days of my annual leave from work to get it done in time which is super irritating. I'm pleasantly surprised with how it turned out though, considering how much time i didn't get to put into it that i wanted to. Also, "the dark arts presents" thing is super cheesy i know, but i felt like it needed some kind of intro and that's the best i could come up with.

    Watch in HD and all that.
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8PY2KD9klY&hd=1[/ame]
    edit : new vid uploaded

    This isn't the final, final thing. I still need to add my credits in there at the end and some other info, but i'll be agonising over that later tonight. I'll probably re-up it when the extras are added. The music in it is causing some problems with youtube's audio matching thing, according to what it says peeps in the US might not be able to watch it. If you can't watch it you can probably download it directly from the tubes here.

    As far as the technicalities go, the tricount will probably lie somewhere between 100,000 to 120,000 tris. I'm unsure because lots of elements are still the merged down turbosmooth model without optimisations. I ran out of time, but 100k approx is what i was shooting for (200ktotal, 100k reserved for the interior). The shots in the vid were all rendered in realtime with max's camera based DOF and Xoliul's viewport shader. The only post i added is the vignette.

    Here's a couple of stills as well.

    21mxfv8.png
    2efu744.png
    rkd3i8.png
    2wq78ts.png
  • Skillmister
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    Skillmister polycounter lvl 11
  • Ludix
    Love the rear end, reminds me of a Jaguar XJ220 somehow. Not so keen on the front lights, they're like the lights on a Yamaha Fazer. Stylistically they absolutely fit, the fact that I don't like them is all down to my own taste, and I'm no supercar fan anyway!

    Nice work :thumbup:
  • Kitteh
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    Kitteh polycounter lvl 18
    I still think your proportions are screwed and the whole middle looks like it's bent up, but whatever.
  • System
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    System admin
    Great video and editing, really enjoyed it, good sountrack too.
    I do like the shapes on your car but I think it's let down by the shader you are using, reflections need work as they are far too blurry for such smooth surfaces. Aside from that, one other thing bugs me and that's the alloys, they really are the only part of the design imo that look poorly constructed and unrecognisable.

    alloys here http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=concept+alloys&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1680&bih=870

    Are you using mental ray for this?

    Seriously dude if you fixed the shader, gave it kick ass alloys with all the details and rendered in mental ray using the same camera motions and soundtrack it would blow people away.
  • tda
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    tda polycounter lvl 16
    cheers dudes

    Kitteh - i think this one falls down to personal preference dude. i tried your suggestions out but i like the way it sits as it is, and yeah the contours make it look like it arches in the middle but i like that. the bottom of the car is actually flat though, that i can guarantee.

    GCMP- i mentioned a post or two back that yeah, i don't like the alloys at all either. i've run out of time though so i had to stick with the junky unfinished stuff i had. a lot of the car needs a lot of work, maybe when i get some free time i'll revisit it to finish it properly. you're probably right about the blurry reflections, just a byproduct of using a low res cubemap, a lot of this is very rushed.
    and nah dude i'm not using mental ray. like i said in the post, it's realtime with xoliul's max viewport shader.
  • CandyStripes05
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    CandyStripes05 polycounter lvl 9
    thats a shame man :(:(:(:(:( i agree with GCMP that reworking your shader/render would instantly double the wow factor of your car !

    maybe if you get free time just render out one screen with mental ray and post it? :P
  • Xoliul
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    Xoliul polycounter lvl 14
    Just a better cubemap would do wonders already. That uffizi cube really is my least favorite one. Maybe try some of these (gotta convert them tho: http://zbyg.deviantart.com/gallery/6278123)
  • Cooljay
    I'm impressed that you got such a nice car design out of simple sketches like that. Great work overall. From what I'm seeing maybe the door handles could be a little more noticeable, they seem small and feel more just like an engraving rather than functional.
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