Where to buy a good Desktop?
polycounter lvl 8
My tax return is coming in a few weeks with about 800 bucks. With a new job
starting on the 27th I'll have enough money to afford a $1500 desktop maybe even $2000. Of course I'm looking for a desktop that can do everything I need to do for my game art, UDK, Crysis, zbrush, max, photoshop. I've considered building my own, and I've researched how to build a desktop, but I
don't have any actual experience building one. So I'm also wondering where I
should buy my new desktop. I don't want to buy from dell or Best Buy. Currently, I am
looking at DigitalStorm and cyberpowerPC. What do you guys think? Also, what
kind of parts should I be looking into?
starting on the 27th I'll have enough money to afford a $1500 desktop maybe even $2000. Of course I'm looking for a desktop that can do everything I need to do for my game art, UDK, Crysis, zbrush, max, photoshop. I've considered building my own, and I've researched how to build a desktop, but I
don't have any actual experience building one. So I'm also wondering where I
should buy my new desktop. I don't want to buy from dell or Best Buy. Currently, I am
looking at DigitalStorm and cyberpowerPC. What do you guys think? Also, what
kind of parts should I be looking into?
Replies
Look for ~6-8 gigs or ram, don't go for dual GPU's just stick with 1 decent one.
Processors are weird, i7's are the best, the i5's, then core2quads, then core2duos (generally). So a 2.6 ghz i7 will completely out preform a 3.2 quad core.
I have narrowed down my research to the brand that i trusted and still trust to provide with good results. Be it 3d.
Every dell precision comes with professional edition of windows 7. And you can upgrade it to i7
Check this out.
http://www1.ca.dell.com/ca/en/enterprise/workstations/precision-t1500/pd.aspx?refid=precision-t1500&s=biz&cs=calca1
EDIT: You can always customize it.
We've had a lot of these "help me build a computer" threads here lately
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site:boards.polycount.net+build+new+system&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
lol Exactly.
Build one for maybe 1.5k tops and you'll be more than alright for a couple years. Save that 500 for the next machine (or video card, if you get a motherboard that allows duel slotting you can just buy a discount model down the line and slap it in). Better to get a decent new rig every couple years (or upgrade it over time) than to get a top of the line one every 4!
is there something I should know?
Well, I guess I was trying to ask if you brought your computer and where did you buy it. I mentioned DigitalStorm and cyberpowerPC because it seemed like they would be good places to buy a desktop. But it seems like a lot of people here(and in other threads) think I should just build one myself. Because there are so many computer parts out there it's hard to figure out a good combo on your own. There's no one size fits all of course.
As far as building one yourself, people on here can be very helpful. If you're got any idea where you want to start(dual core, quad core? 4 gigs, 6 gigs, 12 gigs, 24 gigs? small form factor, huge water-cooler cased?) then i'm sure you'll get a bunch of suggestions as to specific hardware to get.
Generally there are a few basics i like to stick to
1. The CPU should be the most expensive part of your build. If your case or your power supply(items which do not affect performance) are anywhere near the price of your CPU, you're doing something wrong.
2. Never buy the most high end ultra expensive stuff, because you pay twice as much for fractional improvements.
3. Get lots of ram, and a motherboard that supports even more. If you're going with a I7, i would grab a motherboard that supports 24 gigs, and put 12 gigs in it for now. Try not to buy a motherboard that has a bunch of shit you dont care about, for example support for SLI, tripple SLI, USB3.0 SATA3.0 etc unless you actually have hardware to take advantage of these features.
4. With the quality of CPUs these days, even an average video card will perform very well, a sub $100 card with a I7 920 will run every game out there butter smooth, a sub $200 card will last a couple years, over $300 and you're getting excessive, from both price and power/heat perspectives. Turnover rates with graphics hardware are so high that it never makes sense to buy the $500 card, as in 2 years there will be a faster card for $150.
5. Hard drives, DVD, Bluray, etc are pretty self explanatory.
$1000 will get you a good system, $1250 will get you a great system, $1500 will get you an amazing system. Spend the rest on a nice 24" Dell monitor
All seriousness aside though I am a fan of the build it yourself route or the Dell route. Build it yourself for the pricing and Dell for there super good warranties and speedy replacement on parts you accidentally broke and lied to get a replacement on.
I'm starting from scratch. I've got nothing but money to spend and I'm trying to figure out the best way to spend it.
Anyhow, yes, build your own. Dont know how, ask a friend to help with the build.
As far as internals, and you dont want to worry about specifics, get a bundle.
http://www.newegg.com/Store/MasterComboStore.aspx?StoreID=7&name=DIY-PC-Combos&cm_sp=Homepage_Pillar_Rt-_-BuildYourOwn020410-_-http%3a%2f%2fpromotions.newegg.com%2fhomepage%2fpillar%2fBuildYourOwn020410.jpg
Newegg is your friend.
Here is an example Bundle with your budget.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.361352
1,335.96
I have one fx3500 and anothet 5500 (quite old now but better than their equivalent for games and actual cards for serious 3d CAD/DCC works), and yes, too much perfomance editing with meshes with too many millions of polygons, very very good at cad programs, but that's all.
For game art, is a waste of money to look at quadros.
I could build a very very good system with less than 700 euro (930~ dollars). You don't need to waste too much money in a computer nowadays. An AMD-ATI system can be really cheap compared to an Intel based one and you will have almost the same for less money.
Building a new system, there are two things very important for me, in order, GPU>CPU. You can buy a super-mega cpu, but at the end, what will determine your perfomance in 3d... it's the gpu. So better to buy something decent, and not so expensive and make a good combo GPU-CPU.
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-charts-update-1/3DS-Max-2009,1380.html
If its your first time, get a friend to help you do it (if you have one that knows) , but make sure you understand what he/she is doing so you can do it next time.
Research is the key, look for a price performance balance, obviously a hdd that costs $10 more but has half the space again and the same speed reliability is a good $10 spent, but you need to know where to stop.
Look for reviews and more importantly problems with any components you are thinking of buying. Personally on mobo and ram i do a google search with problem , failure and such in the search string, It can save you time on deciding which is better for you out of 2 seemingly equal parts.
Put in that research and you will make yourself a really fine system that will probably last you a few years and cost you half what it would from a specialist PC supplier.
Also, when your PC goes wrong, you will know how to fix it.
I really dont know how much money i have saved over the 15+ years ive been building PCs for myself and friends, but think of it not just as a saving on this purchase but one on every PC you will ever own.
Like all ready stated by Earthquake, don't buy a quadro
Try to stay away from ASUS mobos (its the only brand ive had break)
Dont overclock (you dont really see much of a performance increase( unless the component is designed for OC))
Allways check that your ram is certified and supported by your motherboard choice.
Personally i stick to intel chipsets and intel processors.
Hope this helps.
Good luck!
The i7's have an auto overclocking turbo feature, so it can jump up to 3.0ghz when it needs it, no need to put extra stress on these unless you really wanna void the warrenty :P
Build it yourself, like the post above said its not that hard, youll learn alot and it MUCH cheaper
I'm not really disagreeing, but isn't 12gb getting a bit excessive? That costs like the same as a CPU or bad ass graphics card, 300 to maybe even 500 dollars.
I just tried here, with 6gb: I have to open all standard apps (some textpad, winamp, Firefox using a few hundred, skype), two 3DS Max's with a highpoly model and Photoshop with two big-ass 2k PSD's before I could get it full. Nobody does that with regular use, I think. I mean, I do big textures and highpoly stuff like any other artist, together with UDK sometimes and have never had memory problems. Definitely not worth twice the money anyway.
ZacD: overclocking does not void warranty. That's a myth for scared lil kids.
The ideal situation would be to have enough ram that you can disable virtual memory entirely for your system, and i run into situations here where my pagefile usage can get up to 7 gigs or so. Strangely enough i've got about 5.3 gigs of RAM free right now and 4.6 gigs being used in my PF, i can't say i really understand why that is.
I'm not sure what information you have on CPU warranties, but most things i've ever looked at say they will not cover CPU burnout due to improper usage, which = OC'ing.
[edit] Looking at ram prices i see what you mean, probably better to start with 6 and go to 12 if/when you need it. I was thinking ram was a bit cheaper than it is. 3x4GB sets are insane right now(if you wanted 24 later).
Honestly you just need to do a lot of research and go to newegg to read customer reviews. If you have the time and don't need the computer right this second, build it, it's worth it.
Here is what I learned:
1. Building a PC is a piece of cake, I had never done it before and got the whole thing assembled and installed (OS+Software) in about 5 hours. I got a bit of help on here and watched a couple YouTube vids and it was done.
2. The i7 920 is amazing.
And don't wear socks, or static shock you parts when your installing them
There should definitely be a polycount Wiki entry for desktop builds, laptop builds, instructions on how to build, and purchasing advice for computer parts or buying from a vendor.
It's just not traceable. Unless you actually disable all security and then overclock and heat it so far that it burns out (you really have to know what you're doing, it would only happen if you willfully aim for this). If it just breaks for some other reason, they'll never know/check you ran it at a healthy overclock.
That's what i was thinking, seemed to stroke with the convervative pricing you named on graphics cards, while you always know what you're talking about concerning hardware.
Btw I don't think this hardware guide thing should be wiki, rather like a constantly updated article on the frontpage once we get that.
Problem is that would have to change at least every quarter to keep up with the new tech, and require adding even more people access to edit the wiki. At least one thread would keep it down to.. one thread.
But then again, there are so many places you can go to get this information.
A computer from two years ago will do just as fine for Game Art (Zbrush, Maya, Max, Photoshop, Sketchbook, etc.) as a computer from this year. All the surplus cash you put into your build is a waste. Top end equipment is what... a 10% increase in performance for a 200% increase in cost? Waaaaste of money. Just make sure you've got DirectX 11 so you can produce shit that looks good with the latest rendering techniques. 2GB RAM and even a single core processor will do fine (unless you plan on playing games)... But playing is what a console is (is now) for.
My computer built from scratch two years ago weighed in at £500 and does just fine with the latest tech. And I can make use of the latest rendering techniques (apart from DirectX 11!) in my shaders and game engine. The equivelant in the current market would be around £200 - 300. 'Cheap' equipment is still top of the line (otherwise they wouldn't sell that shit at all).
But really, if your art looks good on a 'crap' PC, it'll look fucking gorgeous on a good one. Spend the extra mootlah on a Cintiq!!!!
And if you really want to save your cash (perhaps to spend on the cat) then go source your parts directly from the factories in China. They don't sell thing commercially but they'll be willing to part with one unit if you phone them up and say you represent Company X (and want to find out the quality of their components). Dirt cheap. Just know that it'll take a long time for that single part to wing its way across the globe to you.
But Ebuyer are gods. I had a "faulty" motherboard and thought "Hmm... I wonder if they'll refund stuff from my old computer." So yeah, I plugged a processor that had burnt out (bought a long time ago from PC world) into the motherboard as well as my old graphics card and sound card. I also popped a broken HDD into the mix (again not from Ebuyer). Well, to cut the story short, some kind fellow called 'John' on the Ebuyer website reported all the extra shit as faulty and refunded it for me! I almost made back the entire cost of the new computer from refunded parts :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Pretty much they'll refund anything you give them so, if you've got some old parts lying around, say it's faulty and you want a refund and they'll pay up in full (I think their customer services employees are half-assed at their jobs).
LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support - $31.99
Rosewill Smart One ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - $49.99 (Purchased)
Western Digital AV-GP WD10EVDS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - $89.99
Auria EQ2668 Black 25.54" 5ms HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor - $289.99
G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop - 169.99
Combo deal - $504.98
Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - $279.99
ASUS P6X58D-E LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - $239.99
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/BFG-BFGEGTX275896OCE-GeForce-OverClocked-Video/dp/B003EIDFJ8/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I13Y9VTTRHNX0Q&colid=1AP2STTG5JH53"]BFG BFGEGTX275896OCE GeForce GTX 275 OverClocked Video Card - 896MB, PCI Express 2.0 x16, SLI Ready, Dual DVI, HDTV, w/FREE Game Coupon[/ame] - $249.99
KINGWIN Mach 1 ABT-800MA1S 800W ATX / BTX SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Modular Power Supply - $119.99
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit OEM - $139.99
Total= $1,646.90
Also, are you sure you wanna go for the brand new NVidia card?
You could save yourself a lot there too, the GTX260/275's are still great cards, and a lot cheaper than the DX11's.
What's the benefit of a 'full-size'? I can get 4 optical drives, 6 HDDs and all the cabling/cooling I need in mine without a squeeze.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just curious as to the benefits of a full size case that costs $100 more.
Here is the tower I'm looking at, COOLER MASTER COSMOS 1000 RC-1000-KSN1.
Ah I see.
There is a lot of room in Mids though, I've got a GTX275 which is a big card, and it fits fine, in fact nothing really seems tight in it.
The airflow is probably better in the bigger cases as you say but I don't do any crazy overclocking or anything, I just run the stock CPU fan along with front and rear case fans and all seems nice and cool, and not too loud either.
I suppose I just think that $100 saving could go towards something of much more use, like another HDD, or some extra RAM... or just a nice extra $100 for your pocket!
I'd be wary of this mentality. Air capacity and air flow are two totally different things. Without getting into a discussion about aerodynamics and thermodynamics, the basis is moving air is good, stagnant air is bad. Just because a case is larger doesn't mean the air is going to flow better, it just means you have more air to heat up. It takes longer for said air to heat, but once it does it just sits there unless you have a way to move it around. More air capacity means you need more and/or larger fans, which can turn your shiny full-tower into something that sounds like a jet engine and sucks more power. Unless you truly need 7 5" bays, from a cooling perspective you're usually better off getting a mid-tower specifically designed for good airflow.
tl;dr: bigger isn't necessarily better when it comes to cooling. not all cases are created equally.
COOLER MASTER CM690 II Advanced...............................$89.99
ASUS VW266H Black 25.5".............................................$279.99
Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz.................................$288.99
ASUS P6X58D-E LGA 1366 X58 ATX Intel Motherboard......$239.99
G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3.........$169.99
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/ 24X DVD Burner.............................$25.99
ASUS PCE-N13 PCI Express Wireless Adapter...................$27.00
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB.....................................$109.99
COOLER MASTER R4-SPS-20AK-GP 80mm Case Fan.........$7.99
EVGA GeForce GTX 470.................................................$349.99
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ700MXSP 700W......................$25.00
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit - OEM................$119.99
Subtotal........................................................................$1734.90
+ Shipping....................................................................$28.96
TOTAL...........................................................................$1763.86
Should rocket through anything you throw at it.
Have you looked in device manager and smiled at seeing 8 processors show up? Always a nice feeling!
Nice build too, cable management looks good, a damn sight better than my first build anyway!
Enjoy it man, should last you a good while!