Duke Nukem Pistol
polycounter lvl 14
Hey, I'm making a model based on the pistol sprite from Duke Nukem 3D.
I'm going to be baking normals and all that cool stuff.
The problem is that the original sprite is really poor on detail, and suffers from the fact that it was drawn, so that it looks different in each frame, so its a bitch to get one model that holds to each frame of the original animation.
Plus, I want to keep it fairly faithfull to the original sprites, but I want it to look cool and modern and to fit in nicely in the old portfolio. So I've chosen a 'real' weapon, a Glock, to base realistic detail on. It sort of looks like they chose a Glock to base the sprite off of - sort of!
So, I've got the original sprite, modelled a mesh that seems to fit in nicely with most of the different views. Can anyone give it a crit or suggest different stuff I could fit in and have have the same 'feel' as the original sprite?
Original sprite view of the gun:
The mesh I made:. Ignore the ejection chamber as it's still mirrored.
A shot of the Glock:
I'm going to be baking normals and all that cool stuff.
The problem is that the original sprite is really poor on detail, and suffers from the fact that it was drawn, so that it looks different in each frame, so its a bitch to get one model that holds to each frame of the original animation.
Plus, I want to keep it fairly faithfull to the original sprites, but I want it to look cool and modern and to fit in nicely in the old portfolio. So I've chosen a 'real' weapon, a Glock, to base realistic detail on. It sort of looks like they chose a Glock to base the sprite off of - sort of!
So, I've got the original sprite, modelled a mesh that seems to fit in nicely with most of the different views. Can anyone give it a crit or suggest different stuff I could fit in and have have the same 'feel' as the original sprite?
Original sprite view of the gun:
The mesh I made:. Ignore the ejection chamber as it's still mirrored.
A shot of the Glock:
Replies
I've posted some wires so you can take a look at how its held together.
Thanks again!
The proportions of the default one are actually totally fucked up, but it's kind of the key to its look.
It doesn't help that the two sprites seem to change their look slightly. But I would suggest making yours wider in general would help it to look right in the "idle" pose
I'd have to agree about the proportions as well. Keep up the good work though.
That's one of the problems I've had. If you check out the two views, you can see that the detail changes from sprite to sprite. In the side-on shot, there is a a hexagon-like form on the front of the barrel. In the end view, its mutated to some kind of sheild-looking thing. So I've got to strike a medium between them all that looks right.
Thank you for the help and the crits. I'll get back to rebuilding the front end and I'll post when I've got some progress.
Thanks again, it's really helped!
I've got to re-do the laser-sight, but I think I'm getting on the right track. I'm going to have to make a decision on which view to stay faithful to as the two sprites are not matching up very well (check out the perspective errors on the back of the slide in the side-long shot).
I only say this cause I can't think of any other mechanical explanation for it
solid progress btw.
Edit: I tried to look for a laser sight ref for you, but couldn't find anything like what is shown, closest was
This
Though, maybe something like this?
Granted they aren't close to the sprite though.
yeah.. but theres no reason for it to be manufactured as a separate part (more parts = more fasteners = more money which you usually don't spend on manufacturing unless the component has some purpouse, and there's nothing aesthetically pleasing about it)
Hence beavertails are usually just part of the frame.
But yeah, its a fictitious pistol, the details will mostly be mishmash. I was only trying to offer a plausible explanation for the purpouse of that feature
But yeah, though I'd be terrified of that grip saftey...but then again, its duke nukem's gun. Its meant to be intimidating.
Thanks for the info on the laser-sight. I've made the one I've got look more like (one of) the sprite(s). I'll blend the grip safety back in and post some screens later today.
Thanks again for all the feedback!
I'm liking it, though. Looking good.
Update. I think this is pretty much it. Unless anyone has any show-stoppers, I'll start on the low poly.
It dosen't even look like the other views of the gun that you see from the shooters perspective. So I've had to model the front on other weapons I've seen. Mostly it's based off of a Glock, with some bits of 1911 pistol, but I've had to pretty much wing it.
Here it is triangulated (shaved a few polys off the the handle on this one)
Currently stands at 3290 tris. This is for the HUD version. I'm figuring that a lot of that will get lost when the stuff you won't see from the HUD viewpoint gets removed. I'll have to really pare it down for the pick-up version.
oh... and watch out for the crazy triangulation pinching going on at the front. Better off just removing the middle edgeloop, and having the lines go straight across horizontally. Same for the back. There's quite a few edges that just cut across flat geometry, could lower the polycount a bit yet.
I thought the radial stuff at the front wouldn't matter too much on the low poly (it's a BIIIIGGGG no-no in sub-d). If it's going to cause problems, I'll change it.
Texture is just a place-holder.
There are some Smoothing errors here and there so take care of those and the rest is pretty much done ^^
Apart from that I cant wait to see it fully textured and finished
I'll work on the cylindrical parts and the grip and get them higher poly. My wife says the laser sight looked like a toy anyway, so I'll simplify the design.
Harry - No I didn't bake it in Blender. You can get some decent bakes in Blender, but I just prefer using X-Normal. You don't have to arse around with flipping channels all the time either.
CJE - Which parts did you mean? Are you talking about the slots on the slide? I've got some problems with the bake (on the top, between the slots on the slide), I was going to fix it in Photoshop. If you can shed some light on making it easier, it would be appreciated.
Oh, and on the subject of Pollys, its at 3,200 at the moment, without the new and improved barrel and laser. I'm going to loose a fair bit of that as I'll be removing all the unseen pollys for the HUD view. I was going to pare it down even further for the pick-up version (remove the slide slots etc.).
I'm kind of new to smooth groups, how do you get rid of those little wrinkly seams where they join (I'm using X-Normal for rendering).
Found a weird thing, The previous shots looked all glossy, I examined my spec map and couldn't find anything wrong. I dumped the PNG and brought it in as a TGA and it fixed all manner of ills :poly142: I'm using X-Normal for rendering.
OK, getting to what I think as near done. Any crits at this point would be much appreciated.
I've got some issues on the front of the barrel and the laser which could be either smooth group problems or normal map problems, I'll have to get them sorted out.
At this point, I just want some input on where to go next, as this is as close as I've got to where I want to be.
Here is the normal map. It looks 'flatter' than the previous bakes I've done, but generally, the overall effect looks much better on the render.
add some more variation in the colours - evven if it means deviating from the concept a bit
Can I ask a few pointers about the slide? Specifically about smooth groups. What would be the best way to do this? By outlining each slot separately, or by putting bands around the whole thing at each 'notch'? I've tried several different ways and I keep getting all sorts of artifacts. Any help would be appreciated.
New colour scheme (and 8 Monkeys renderer!
Here are my pics from Marmoset and a skin shot :poly122:
I think that is pretty much it for this one. I'm kind of amazed at how I thought it was really good at the start and how with everyone's help, it got so much better! Thanks to all who have helped me out with this one.
Your normalmap look inverted. Look at the grip detail and the '9mm' text. I think you'll need to flip that layer's green or red channel. Maybe both, but it doesn't look like it.
Your normalmap also seems to be useless. There are only a handfull of place I can see it doing it's job, and even there it's not doing much. All I see is lowpoly shading and smoothing-errors. You may not be aware of this, but normalmaps can do a LOT more than what you're seeing here, and a little bit of studying could make this look 100x times better.
The earlier shots at the top of this page were much better, and I'm curious to know what happened between then and now. You started playing around with smoothing groups, but really those are only important in normalmapped assets for fixing smoothing errors, not to give it hard shading.
Also, and maybe I missed a post that explains this, but are you using different uv-sets for your diffuse and normals?
They don't line up at all!
edit: no, that's just me being stupid. it's a cutaway, I get it now.
First bake, much more 'rounded' looking.
Second one, after 'fixing' smoothing errors, much flatter (note the round ends of the laser sight in the top right corner).
I'm going back and checking my cage for errors.
No, what I think the problem is in these latest shots is a flipped colour-channel (going by how it looks I'd say green). Maybe there's more going on here, but without seeing a picture of it flipped I couldn't say. Could you post one, so we can then see if that fixes everything?
You could also post your model and textures for us to take a look at, ofcourse. Looking at your normalmaps, I'm surprised at some of the gradients, and I wonder if those couldn't be a sign of another problem. The diamond-shaped parts on the top right for instance, those look like they're countering some pretty severe smoothing errors.
What it looks like to me is that you're now texturing the pistol without a decent understanding of what pistols look like, in terms of wear and tear. Color is off, small detail is off. Spend more time looking at the highest resolution images you can find of Glocks and the like.
for Glock pics: http://www.pixagogo.com/2727774179 (bookmark this overall site too)
notice that even with a pistol that is nominally one color, it's not at all in practice. So there's your "two-tone" right there--you should be able to push the color/material read between the metal slide and the polymer frame. There's a faint warm gray to the slide color, whereas the polymer is cooler.
Sorry I'm not really in a position to help troubleshoot your normal-mapping woes--I'll be there along with you shortly however
But keep it up! This is still one of my favorite topics to watch develop.
edit: also meant to link a few of Racer's tutorials, seemed like they might be useful if you haven't already seen them: http://racer445.com/