I disagree with what your saying Tom, not all Americans are lazy. When it comes down to feeding your family I'm sure you would do about anything. DKK, so because Mexico is next to us we should have to adopt Spanish. BS man.
My solution would be:
Prosecute companies that hire illegals. (like that will ever happen)
Make everyone that is illegal on a path to citizenship with 3 main conditions.
1. you have to admit you broke the law and will be on record with the FBI.
2. you must pay a fine with a check or through your taxes.
3. you must perform community service.
4. (don't actually tell people this) if you broke the law(like murder, theft, etc), you will be put in prison and eventually sent back to your country of origin.
I posted a link to the 9500 Liberty documentary(post #80) and Price William county Virginia passed an anti-immigration very similar to what passed in AZ. If the same thing that happened in Prince William VA happens in AZ, then you can kiss AZ good-bye.
I think there needs to be options for illegals in the USA to earn citizenship, especially if there goal isn't to send money back to their family in mexico.
I disagree with what your saying Tom, not all Americans are lazy. When it comes down to feeding your family I'm sure you would do about anything.
The US currently has an unemployment rate around 10%. That's about 15 million American citizens. The total number of illegal immigrants in the US is about 12 million - the number of workers is much smaller. If unemployed Americans wanted to take the jobs that illegals have, there's nothing stopping them. Why aren't they taking them?
I don't think it's a matter of being lazy, really, but just a different culture. Americans haven't known truly hard times in living memory, and don't expect to have to work as hard as immigrants do to put food on the table. For pretty much all Americans, having to do janitorial work for minimum wage is an act of desperation. For many Mexican immigrants, that job is a real improvement from subsistence level living, plowing fields for relative pennies a day.
Well what is the temptation in America that brings illegal immigrants? Or what is so bad back home that people want to escape from?
If it's mostly Mexicans then why is it hapenning? Coffee and tobacco are big exports from Mexico so where is all the money going? It sure as hell isn't going back into the country so the governement can spend it on new schools, hospitals, civil service and infrastructure.
Governmental mismanagement seems like a fitting description.
Make everyone that is illegal on a path to citizenship with 3 main conditions.
1. you have to admit you broke the law and will be on record with the FBI.
2. you must pay a fine with a check or through your taxes.
3. you must perform community service.
What is this supposed to accomplish? Is it punishment for wanting to work in America?
Think about some poor bastard born in Mexico, risking his life entering America, just so he can have a chance to work for minimum wage scrubbing the toilets you take a dump in at work. He's not trying to game the system or screw you out of something - he's trying to escape a life of poverty in the countryside, or maybe flee the drugs and murder in a hellhole life Juarez. Despite this, you want to put a scarlet letter of guilt on him and take a cut of his $7.25/hour for the honor of letting him stay here and keep that shit job? Is that what America's about?
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
I'm not one of those rabid anti-mexican guys but I'm hearing alot of people assuming they get paid the same as any other unskilled worker in the US, the reason hiring illegal immigrants is so popular is that you can pay them less than minimum wage and off the books as well.
Prosecute the employers, make sure they take out all the taxes etc... and obey the minimum wage laws. Granted, you can barely live on minimum wage but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
Hey DKK, the area I was describing a page or so back was in Spanish only, I did not read one word of English on the signs for however many miles of the city that I drove through. Language is very important in keeping unity in a country. I am not saying people should forget where their ancestors came from. I am saying it would not be beneficial for a country two have 200 or so differently languages used just to satisfy people that come here outside of the US.
:P my family came to America legally just prior to WWI, of coarse you just had to be relatively healthy to get through Ellis Island.
And why not have English & Spanish the official languages of the US, right now, legally, there is no official language. All the wealthy people have their kids learning spanish anyway because those scientisty types found out that bilingual kids are better learners. It stretches your brain out or somethin... I think it's spanish voodoo magic
Hey DKK, the area I was describing a page or so back was in Spanish only, I did not read one word of English on the signs for however many miles of the city that I drove through. Language is very important in keeping unity in a country. I am not saying people should forget where their ancestors came from. I am saying it would not be beneficial for a country two have 200 or so differently languages used just to satisfy people that come here outside of the US.
Holy hell man,master the English language before complain about people not speaking or using it in signs.
...Did I go over there demanding that they speak English, no I tried to learn the language, I did not wave my American Flag around demanding respect when I walked the streets. I respected their country and its laws.
Prosecute the employers, make sure they take out all the taxes etc... and obey the minimum wage laws. Granted, you can barely live on minimum wage but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
But, if they go after the employers they will lose the support of companies and citizens who employ illegals. Which is why it is obvious to me that AZ's "tough new immigration laws" are more about political posturing than dealing with the problem.
Hey DKK, the area I was describing a page or so back was in Spanish only, I did not read one word of English on the signs for however many miles of the city that I drove through. Language is very important in keeping unity in a country. I am not saying people should forget where their ancestors came from. I am saying it would not be beneficial for a country two have 200 or so differently languages used just to satisfy people that come here outside of the US.
There aren't 200 living world languages spoken on the Earth. Exaggeration aside, worries about 'unity in a country' are leaning towards fascism in a way I do not trust. Many countries have multiple languages and do just fine. Switzerland, one of the world's banking powers, has FOUR national languages. If you're near Geneva, you're most likely to hear French; in Zurich, German is most common. The country functions just fine as a western democracy, regardless of the fact that not all citizens share a common language (though nearly everyone is bilingual, making it even less of an issue.) I've never heard that the Swiss lack for national unity.
A century ago, when Ellis Island was admitting Italians and Poles and Jews and Irish and Germans, the nation's east coast was flooded with people who spoke little or no English. It took generations for those people to be fluent speakers of English, but I'd say things have turned out okay. I can order a pizza, stop by a kosher deli, or cook up a plate of pierogi for dinner and be thankful that Americans are united by common ideals rather than their heritage.
I don't understand this culture theft in America deal... The US has always been known as a cultural melting pot, in many ways Americans are actually proud of it. This country is barely over 200 years old, how much American culture is there really? You shouldn't start to worry until the MLS starts taking over NFL ratings
@Snake85027 Come on man, this is a forum. defend your position, learn something new, change opinions, its all gravy baby
What is this supposed to accomplish? Is it punishment for wanting to work in America?
Think about some poor bastard born in Mexico, risking his life entering America, just so he can have a chance to work for minimum wage scrubbing the toilets you take a dump in at work. He's not trying to game the system or screw you out of something - he's trying to escape a life of poverty in the countryside, or maybe flee the drugs and murder in a hellhole life Juarez. Despite this, you want to put a scarlet letter of guilt on him and take a cut of his $7.25/hour for the honor of letting him stay here and keep that shit job? Is that what America's about?
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
I'm fully aware of the hardships that people from Mexico face. In fact I say keep'em coming. But we have to face the facts, they did brake the law. Saying that you broke the law is not a scarlet letter. If somebody steals it's put on a criminal record right? Now if your not in favor of having a record with the FBI then I might consider having illegal immigrants do community service or pay a fine to have that piece of info stripped from their record. Now I also said that we need to prosecute companies that hire illegal immigrants; which is the main problem. I think my conditions are fair and reasonable. It keeps all the illegal immigrants here so they can work and it puts them on a path to citizenship.
I've barely seen anyone in this thread that advocates the prosecution of companies that hire illegal workers. I don't see you nor anyone else on this thread advocating for workers rights which is the reason why they get paid low wages to begin with.
But we have to face the facts, they did brake the law. Saying that you broke the law is not a scarlet letter.
Well, technically, they can't be prosecuted as United States citizens. So even if they have broken the law by entering the country illegally, the only punishment for that is deportation. Since they aren't citizens, they can't really have any permanent criminal record either. (in the US) And its just speculation as to the positive or negative effects they might have on the US. On the one hand, more people trying to find work is actually a good way to stimulate an economy. On the other hand, illegal immigrants can't pay taxes, and are a drain on the public resources that legitimate citizens utilize.
A better solution might be to work with the Mexican government on making it easier for immigrants to become US citizens. Offices in the Southwest should be opened to encourage immigrants to come forward and become naturalized citizens, without fear of deportation. Two or three years to become a citizen is a bit much. Shave it down to one year, and let immigrants live and work in-country as long as they can prove they are going through the legal immigration process. Immigrants aren't a problem. It is only when they are illegal and not paying taxes that they become an issue.
Well, technically, they can't be prosecuted as United States citizens. So even if they have broken the law by entering the country illegally, the only punishment for that is deportation. Since they aren't citizens, they can't really have any permanent criminal record either. (in the US) And its just speculation as to the positive or negative effects they might have on the US. On the one hand, more people trying to find work is actually a good way to stimulate an economy. On the other hand, illegal immigrants can't pay taxes, and are a drain on the public resources that legitimate citizens utilize.
A better solution might be to work with the Mexican government on making it easier for immigrants to become US citizens. Offices in the Southwest should be opened to encourage immigrants to come forward and become naturalized citizens, without fear of deportation. Two or three years to become a citizen is a bit much. Shave it down to one year, and let immigrants live and work in-country as long as they can prove they are going through the legal immigration process. Immigrants aren't a problem. It is only when they are illegal and not paying taxes that they become an issue.
We could always reform our trade laws with Mexico which is devastating the Mexican economy. not to mention the WTO.
As if any of this will be brought up in the public sphere, let alone taking action.
Replies
Prosecute companies that hire illegals. (like that will ever happen)
Make everyone that is illegal on a path to citizenship with 3 main conditions.
1. you have to admit you broke the law and will be on record with the FBI.
2. you must pay a fine with a check or through your taxes.
3. you must perform community service.
4. (don't actually tell people this) if you broke the law(like murder, theft, etc), you will be put in prison and eventually sent back to your country of origin.
I posted a link to the 9500 Liberty documentary(post #80) and Price William county Virginia passed an anti-immigration very similar to what passed in AZ. If the same thing that happened in Prince William VA happens in AZ, then you can kiss AZ good-bye.
[ame]
The US currently has an unemployment rate around 10%. That's about 15 million American citizens. The total number of illegal immigrants in the US is about 12 million - the number of workers is much smaller. If unemployed Americans wanted to take the jobs that illegals have, there's nothing stopping them. Why aren't they taking them?
I don't think it's a matter of being lazy, really, but just a different culture. Americans haven't known truly hard times in living memory, and don't expect to have to work as hard as immigrants do to put food on the table. For pretty much all Americans, having to do janitorial work for minimum wage is an act of desperation. For many Mexican immigrants, that job is a real improvement from subsistence level living, plowing fields for relative pennies a day.
If it's mostly Mexicans then why is it hapenning? Coffee and tobacco are big exports from Mexico so where is all the money going? It sure as hell isn't going back into the country so the governement can spend it on new schools, hospitals, civil service and infrastructure.
Governmental mismanagement seems like a fitting description.
What is this supposed to accomplish? Is it punishment for wanting to work in America?
Think about some poor bastard born in Mexico, risking his life entering America, just so he can have a chance to work for minimum wage scrubbing the toilets you take a dump in at work. He's not trying to game the system or screw you out of something - he's trying to escape a life of poverty in the countryside, or maybe flee the drugs and murder in a hellhole life Juarez. Despite this, you want to put a scarlet letter of guilt on him and take a cut of his $7.25/hour for the honor of letting him stay here and keep that shit job? Is that what America's about?
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/281867/april-21-2010/the-word---no-problemo
Prosecute the employers, make sure they take out all the taxes etc... and obey the minimum wage laws. Granted, you can barely live on minimum wage but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
And why not have English & Spanish the official languages of the US, right now, legally, there is no official language. All the wealthy people have their kids learning spanish anyway because those scientisty types found out that bilingual kids are better learners. It stretches your brain out or somethin... I think it's spanish voodoo magic
Holy hell man,master the English language before complain about people not speaking or using it in signs.
Are you just being ironic?
This pretty much wins the thread for me.
that's why I can say "¡Mi gato, Misifuz, tocar el piano!"
I'd have to come to America to watch it
But, if they go after the employers they will lose the support of companies and citizens who employ illegals. Which is why it is obvious to me that AZ's "tough new immigration laws" are more about political posturing than dealing with the problem.
There aren't 200 living world languages spoken on the Earth. Exaggeration aside, worries about 'unity in a country' are leaning towards fascism in a way I do not trust. Many countries have multiple languages and do just fine. Switzerland, one of the world's banking powers, has FOUR national languages. If you're near Geneva, you're most likely to hear French; in Zurich, German is most common. The country functions just fine as a western democracy, regardless of the fact that not all citizens share a common language (though nearly everyone is bilingual, making it even less of an issue.) I've never heard that the Swiss lack for national unity.
A century ago, when Ellis Island was admitting Italians and Poles and Jews and Irish and Germans, the nation's east coast was flooded with people who spoke little or no English. It took generations for those people to be fluent speakers of English, but I'd say things have turned out okay. I can order a pizza, stop by a kosher deli, or cook up a plate of pierogi for dinner and be thankful that Americans are united by common ideals rather than their heritage.
@Snake85027 Come on man, this is a forum. defend your position, learn something new, change opinions, its all gravy baby
I'm fully aware of the hardships that people from Mexico face. In fact I say keep'em coming. But we have to face the facts, they did brake the law. Saying that you broke the law is not a scarlet letter. If somebody steals it's put on a criminal record right? Now if your not in favor of having a record with the FBI then I might consider having illegal immigrants do community service or pay a fine to have that piece of info stripped from their record. Now I also said that we need to prosecute companies that hire illegal immigrants; which is the main problem. I think my conditions are fair and reasonable. It keeps all the illegal immigrants here so they can work and it puts them on a path to citizenship.
I've barely seen anyone in this thread that advocates the prosecution of companies that hire illegal workers. I don't see you nor anyone else on this thread advocating for workers rights which is the reason why they get paid low wages to begin with.
Well, technically, they can't be prosecuted as United States citizens. So even if they have broken the law by entering the country illegally, the only punishment for that is deportation. Since they aren't citizens, they can't really have any permanent criminal record either. (in the US) And its just speculation as to the positive or negative effects they might have on the US. On the one hand, more people trying to find work is actually a good way to stimulate an economy. On the other hand, illegal immigrants can't pay taxes, and are a drain on the public resources that legitimate citizens utilize.
A better solution might be to work with the Mexican government on making it easier for immigrants to become US citizens. Offices in the Southwest should be opened to encourage immigrants to come forward and become naturalized citizens, without fear of deportation. Two or three years to become a citizen is a bit much. Shave it down to one year, and let immigrants live and work in-country as long as they can prove they are going through the legal immigration process. Immigrants aren't a problem. It is only when they are illegal and not paying taxes that they become an issue.
We could always reform our trade laws with Mexico which is devastating the Mexican economy. not to mention the WTO.
As if any of this will be brought up in the public sphere, let alone taking action.