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Environmental Concept Learning Resources?

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Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
I've been searching around the last 15 minutes and I haven't found anything really so I've decided to make a thread on the subject.

My goal is to be an environmental artist and I need to buff up my drawing skills as I only have a basic understanding of simple perspective drawing at the moment. I'm wondering if there are any good resources that could help me expedite my learning process or if I just need to start drawing a lot more.

If you know of any good resources (Books, online tutorials, video DVDs) for environmental concept drawing then please share them. I've been looking around and some of the Gnomon DVD's seem like they might be useful but they seem like they're for artists who already have a better understanding of drawing and they're somewhat expensive.

Thanks!

Replies

  • bbob
    If you like boxy, or just general scifi stuff, check out Feng Zhu's tutorials..

    Also, it might be worth heading over to ConceptArt.org to steal some of their leet techniques..

    Good luck!
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for the recommendations! I've been looking at Feng Zhu's tutorials on Gnomon for a few weeks now and once I get some money they're on the top of my list. I'll take a closer look at the Concept Art pages later.
  • marks
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    marks greentooth
  • Eric Chadwick
    Thanks for the links!

    Added these to the wiki, plus a couple others.
    http://wiki.polycount.net/CategoryEnvironment#EC
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    Checked this DVD out at my school, but if you have to pay for it it's worth every penny. I went from being pretty bad and slow at matte paintings and environment concept to be being pretty decent and fast literally overnight. I thought wow, that doesn't seem THAT hard after watching it, and low and behold it wasn't. It's all about building up the scene with the right colors and composition from the start, sweating the small stuff later.

    dco01_cover.jpg
    The techniques of Dylan Cole, Introduction to Landscape Matte Painting. It's a Gnomon DVD. Nothing too fancy in it, not tons of custom brushes or fluffy crap, he uses the same simple techniques to create a range of environments and he really beats those techniques into your head. AMAZING dvd.
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for the links guys! Going to start compiling a list of what to buy.

    I might hold off for a while on the Matte Painting and such though because I don't have a tablet yet. I suppose I could do it with a mouse but I've tried doing simple drawing with my mouse in Photoshop and it's just awkward. By the time I get a tablet hopefully my drawing skills are improved enough that these Gnomon DVDs won't be too tough for me to jump into!

    Also Hey Marks!
  • Sayanora
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    Sayanora polycounter lvl 11
    Here's something I'm currently studying. Be warned, it's not exactly light reading :)

    http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech10.html
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    its all technical perspective and lighting crap, can't learn how to paint from that. Of course understanding perceptive is very important, but when you can just lay out a few primitive cubes in a 3D app and then draw on top of it, understanding everything perfectly become wasted time.
  • System
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    System admin
    Scott Robertsons DVDs are also great!
  • Emil Mujanovic
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    Emil Mujanovic polycounter lvl 18
    ZacD wrote: »
    its all technical perspective and lighting crap, can't learn how to paint from that.
    Are you serious? Perspective and lighting are some of the key fundamentals to drawing/painting. It's something that I have personally been studying and working on lately and it has improved my painting a tonne!

    I've got a few Massive Black vids, check out Carl Dobsky's perspective vids... They are pretty rad, but need a few views to fully understand as they get pretty tech.
    Whit Brachna has some nice enviro stuff, and I've picked up a few nice tips here and there and you get his brush set with his vids too which are really fun to play with and have made their way into my brush rotation.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Did you look at the resource? its all math crap, how long are the shadows going to be, how blurry all they, crazy perspective drawings, its all fine if you want to perfect the technical side of art. But if you can't paint or draw none of those things are going to help much.

    This has a lot more practical and useful information http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm
  • OrganizedChaos
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    OrganizedChaos polycounter lvl 17
    Just to point something out on conceptart (since you might miss it, the forum is huge). there's a huge classlike section called environmentoring- definitely worth checking out and a great series of assignments you can, er, assign yourself. I've been thinking about doing some of them myself.

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=140
    Week One - Linear Perspective
    Week Two - Atmospheric Perspective
    Week Three - Theories of Colour
    Week Four - Principles of Design
    Week Five - The Effects of Time and Weather
    Week Six - Encorporating Architecture and Aesthetic Style
    Week Seven: Texture
  • System
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    System admin
    ZacD wrote: »
    Did you look at the resource? its all math crap, how long are the shadows going to be, how blurry all they, crazy perspective drawings, its all fine if you want to perfect the technical side of art. But if you can't paint or draw none of those things are going to help much.

    These aspects as Emil mentioned are required knowledge to becoming a good painter!

    Think of 3d for instance: you wouldn't put in fine mesh or texture details before you have the main shapes perfected, would you? It's a similar process with concept art: you create the main forms and shadows that support them, then build features on top that describe the forms even further. As you progress the details you incorporate get finer.
  • Kessler
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    Kessler polycounter lvl 17
    If you are on a small budget and want some vids you can download I would agree with Emil. Those Massive Black Whit vids are great. I learned a lot from them personally.
  • DarthNater
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    DarthNater polycounter lvl 10
    ZacD wrote: »
    Did you look at the resource? its all math crap, how long are the shadows going to be, how blurry all they, crazy perspective drawings, its all fine if you want to perfect the technical side of art. But if you can't paint or draw none of those things are going to help much.

    This has a lot more practical and useful information http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm

    Do you draw/paint? You need to learn those types of fundamentals. I personally think its better to learn that stuff as soon as possible so it's instilled in your mind forever. Look at most mediocre paintings/drawings, they usually lack good perspective or lighting.
  • Justin Meisse
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    Justin Meisse polycounter lvl 18
    Sayanora wrote: »
    Here's something I'm currently studying. Be warned, it's not exactly light reading :)

    http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/tech10.html

    argh, this reads like an art tutorial written by a programmer. I guess he's using the 1 picture = 1,000 words exchange rate.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Like I said the brief talk about lighting and perceptive in this http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/art_tut.htm is a lot more useful and practical than a technical read on advanced perspective.
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for all the suggestions guys!

    Jackwhat- Are Scott Robertson's DVDs on Gnomon?

    Crazyfingers- I'll check out that DVD! Learning a few simple techniques sounds like a good starting point.

    Emil- I'll check out those videos. I could use some good painting brushes. Right now I only have grunge/scratch brushes that I use for texturing.

    Chaos- Thanks for the link! Once my skills have advanced a bit more I'll try that out!

    Kessler- I'm not exactly on a tight budget, I just don't have a job right now which means I don't have that much expendable income. Once I get a job though it'll be no problem picking up a few Gnomon DVD's or something. Those Massive Black videos should help out until I can order some though.

    Zac and Sayanora- Thanks for the perspective links! I'll probably try out Zac's first because Sayanora's is about 50 pages long but I'm sure going through it all would help out a lot once I have a stronger understanding of perspective and drawing overall.
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    I just remembered something I've been meaning to ask.

    I've been thinking of taking some classes at Gnomon in a year or so but I'm not sure if I need them if the DVD's are training me enough. One thing I've been wondering about taking classes though is if the DVD's are the same quality/amount of content as the in person classes at Gnomon. An example of this is Color Theory. Do you think the Gnomon Color Theory DVD would be good enough to explain the concepts or do you think it would be better to spend the $1500 to take the class in person?
  • crazyfingers
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    crazyfingers polycounter lvl 10
    You may be surprised how much you can learn from a good dvd, if you get behind you can rewind, or if you're looking for a refresher just fast forward. I can't speak for gnomon courses, but i was having trouble getting the knack of matte painting at my school and as i said before, after viewing the matte painting dvd just 1 time was able to hit the ground running. It really depends on how good your instructor is. DVD's from reputable sources are almost always good stuff. Just know exactly what you're looking for or you'll just end up with an expensive box sitting on your shelf.

    Basically classes and dvds can be hit or miss, you're approaching this the right way though, ask around see which ones are worth your time and money. DVD's are awesome though, if they're not working out you're not stuck in a class wasting time for months on end and they're MUCH cheaper. Classes keep you on task, gotta find the happy medium of learning to teach yourself and getting out there, networking, etc, etc.

    Specifically addressing your color theory question. Color theory is good to have a general knowledge of at the start, but it's something you're going to pick up over time, a LONG time. Don't expect to take a color theory class, or watch a DVD on it and never have to struggle with what colors to use again. Chances are if you're doing commercial art, you wont even be worrying about it, someone else is going to come up with a color scheme and you'll simply be emulating it. The Dylan Cole DVD i recommended earlier actually has some very practical suggestions for using colors that addresses a lot of noob mistakes including oversaturating stuff and picking a pallete that's too all over the place.
  • Vrav
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    Vrav polycounter lvl 11
    I'd just go with the DVD, but I'm cheap. The only difference I can see with a class is that instead of a onesided teaching experience, you might be able to ask questions and get direct feedback from the instructor. The whole "lecture vs conversation" difference in teaching / learning. What I like about a lecture or DVD is that if I don't agree with something on it, or can only benefit from some small aspect of the lessons being provided, I don't feel like I wasted $1500.

    That and googling the heck out of something is kind of fun. (: Bit more hands-on digging up of information than just paying for some lessons. Depends on what you're after!
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    Thanks for the quick responses guys. I think I'm just going to buy a few DVDs and see how far my skills (In both matte painting and modeling/texturing) progress over the next year. If I'm not getting enough out of them or I don't think I'm learning fast enough I can always go try out a few classes at Gnomon. They're only 2-3 month classes each so I won't be locked in for a year or two.
  • Vrav
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    Vrav polycounter lvl 11
    I also think that one can benefit from a class more once having gained some experience in doing things on one's own. That way, you can immediately apply what is being taught to what you're doing - bit smaller of a bite. Otherwise, the student might become caught up in trying to absorb the basic theories without being able to focus on the prime directive of the course.

    Good call and good luck!
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    Vrav wrote: »
    I also think that one can benefit from a class more once having gained some experience in doing things on one's own. That way, you can immediately apply what is being taught to what you're doing - bit smaller of a bite. Otherwise, the student might become caught up in trying to absorb the basic theories without being able to focus on the prime directive of the course.

    Good call and good luck!

    Thanks! Hopefully it won't take me too long to pick it up. I've been using the Source Engine for various projects for nearly 5 years but I've only recently started getting serious about becoming an environmental artist.

    I was thinking that same exact thing about going to Gnomon. If I don't get some more base skills and try to improve a lot more on my own before taking a few classes I think I'd be VERY confused and overwhelmed. I think this is the best decision at the moment. My only concern about taking this path is not having a degree but hopefully they won't be a requirement by the time I try to get into the industry.
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    I'm thinking of buying a tablet very soon so I can get started with those DVD's. I already know what I'm going to get (Wacom Intuos 4 Medium) but I'm not sure where to buy it from. Newegg has it for $350 but someone on there said they found it somewhere else for $300 but he didn't share the source. Do any of you know a place with a lower price than $350?
  • Ben Apuna
    Great advice and cool links all around, I'm going to have to check out that environmentoring section over at conceptart.org.

    Google shopping is how I bought my Intous 3 on the cheap. Just got to take a bit of a risk with the less known sellers.

    http://www.google.com/products?q=wacom+intuos4+medium&hl=en&aq=3&oq=wacom+in

    There's also ebay, there might be some good deals on used tablets.
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Zipfinator wrote: »
    I'm thinking of buying a tablet very soon so I can get started with those DVD's. I already know what I'm going to get (Wacom Intuos 4 Medium) but I'm not sure where to buy it from. Newegg has it for $350 but someone on there said they found it somewhere else for $300 but he didn't share the source. Do any of you know a place with a lower price than $350?


    http://www.buy.com/prod/wacom-intuos4-medium-pen-graphics-tablet-8-8-x-5-5-5080-lpi-mouse-pen/q/loc/101/210904541.html

    I personally got mine from here with a student discount

    http://www.provantage.com/wacom-ptk640ac~7WACM19N.htm
  • disanski
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    I won't be able to get a student discount I'm fairly sure but I've found one for $309 on Amazon and I trust them more than buy.com.

    Anyway there was an awful review about the Intuos 4 on Amazon. I'm fairly certain it's not as bad as he says as most of the other reviews were great, but I can't be sure. Have you guys had any problems with the Intuos 4 series?
  • ZacD
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    ZacD ngon master
    Zipfinator wrote: »
    I won't be able to get a student discount I'm fairly sure but I've found one for $309 on Amazon and I trust them more than buy.com.

    Anyway there was an awful review about the Intuos 4 on Amazon. I'm fairly certain it's not as bad as he says as most of the other reviews were great, but I can't be sure. Have you guys had any problems with the Intuos 4 series?

    http://www.google.com/products/seller?cmi=32728911112306688&zmi=buy.com&q=buy.com

    Buy.com has a lot of decent review, I wouldn't be worried.

    There's always a few awful reviews on any product, my intuos4 has held up great, I kinda throw it around a little bit (I actually broke the usb cord and messed up one of the usb ports, but that was my fault, stupid cord + spinning chair, but there's 2 usb ports and any micro usb cable works).
  • Zipfinator
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    Zipfinator polycounter lvl 9
    I know it's silly to not trust Buy.com but I just don't like the site. It's only $15 cheaper anyway and the Amazon one has a free shipping offer.

    Anyway I guess I'm going to order an Intuos 4 sometime over the next few days. I'm not going to let one bad review change my decision. There's not really anything else I could get anyway.
  • System
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    System admin
    I found becoming good at painting in maps still leaves you with the inability to create a whole painting from scratch as your always relying on a base, however it does help when it comes to detail! It's easier to start by painting highlights, shadows and colour in seperate layers over ambient occlusion, later painting directly onto uv's as skills improve...

    Have you ever watched any [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MghiBW3r65M"]Bob Ross[/ame] videos? This guy was amazing!

    Check out his bases first and then see that all the tools he uses have equivalents in Photoshop :)

    *sorry if that sounded all upside down and inside out, I'm in a rush!
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