Jobs : WTF, seriously.
Seriously is it just me, am I just a really shitty artist that's been lied to all this time, or is there no movement whatsoever on any studios hiring anymore. After one year of contacting studios with only one interview to show for it.... I'm about to give up on the whole thing.
So yeah is it just me having bad luck? How bad is it out there for everyone else? I'm addressing mostly the established pros here since students tend to have a harder time by default. (BTW i feel for you poor students trying to get in right now)
In conclusion : WTF is going on?! Do they need me to make AK47s and brick walls before i'm deemed 'hiring material' ?? I got my first job with 3 crappy sub-PS2 quality amateur works. Now I'm busting my ass piling on the works and get nothing. NOTHING. I have plenty of titles under my belt covering a range of styles 2 of them next gen AAA and come from a major studio hello!!! What's the hold up @#MT1@PGN(2546(wtweN@GN(V(4VN@~!!!
Love, one of many artists frustrated with the industry.
PS to my pro peeps: Hook a brother up >.<;
Edit
I'm getting a couple PMs so far about various US jobs. I appreciate it, but please note that I'd probably need a pretty powerful studio pushing for me to get a visa in order to get in. I'm really unsure about the whole visa situation, i keep getting conflicting information from different sources about whether its possible for me. But long story short is i have no post secondary degree and keep hearing there's no way to get in without one.
I don't know if its the kind of thing you discuss after an interview or something i should have beforehand.. I wouldn't want to waste anyone's time going through a hiring process and then hit a brick wall when they try to process my immigration.
So yeah is it just me having bad luck? How bad is it out there for everyone else? I'm addressing mostly the established pros here since students tend to have a harder time by default. (BTW i feel for you poor students trying to get in right now)
In conclusion : WTF is going on?! Do they need me to make AK47s and brick walls before i'm deemed 'hiring material' ?? I got my first job with 3 crappy sub-PS2 quality amateur works. Now I'm busting my ass piling on the works and get nothing. NOTHING. I have plenty of titles under my belt covering a range of styles 2 of them next gen AAA and come from a major studio hello!!! What's the hold up @#MT1@PGN(2546(wtweN@GN(V(4VN@~!!!
Love, one of many artists frustrated with the industry.
PS to my pro peeps: Hook a brother up >.<;
Edit
I'm getting a couple PMs so far about various US jobs. I appreciate it, but please note that I'd probably need a pretty powerful studio pushing for me to get a visa in order to get in. I'm really unsure about the whole visa situation, i keep getting conflicting information from different sources about whether its possible for me. But long story short is i have no post secondary degree and keep hearing there's no way to get in without one.
I don't know if its the kind of thing you discuss after an interview or something i should have beforehand.. I wouldn't want to waste anyone's time going through a hiring process and then hit a brick wall when they try to process my immigration.
This discussion has been closed.
Replies
That said, your work looks good to me, I'd hire you, if I was looking for a good character/prop artist.
You need more bigbreasted spacemarines in dumpsters on crates.
As for me. I've had some slight troubles landing work aswell but I contribute that to my lacking portfolio. I've begun to see some light in the tunnel though and we'll see how it goes in the next few weeks.
Either way man, you're crazy talented... maybe you just need a bit of random luck (which sucks... but yar). Maybe some buddies can put some good words in for you at their studios?
And speaking as not the BEST artist on this site What SO EVER. I will say its just bad luck. I have had 3 gigs in the last year and all 3 I have gotten through friends I knew who recommended me in.
Company's where I dont have any real contacts//inside people (Like arena net, or bungie or sony) I never heard squat back from.
I can never stress this enough that NETWORKING is the key to getting around in this field. Being friends with people and knowing whats up ahead of time is what separates you versus all those other.
Think of it this way
You email,
Job@IwillNeverEmailYouBack.Com
versus
Owner@IownThisFuckingCompanyAndCheckThisEmailAllTheFuckingTime.com
Which one do you think will get back to you 1st?
Anyway your work is top tits man , your just in a shitty time right now with bad luck.
Seriously DO NOT GIVE UP!
Also are you in a location where there many game jobs? I can never stress as well as networking that location is key as well (until you are either A: Bad ass enough to poop awesome or B: Have more then enough money to relocate yourself if it came up)
Maybe you should take this time to go back to college and get a degree, making the whole international thing easier. I know it's expensive for you guys, but maybe now's the time to do that.
The only thing I can see that could possibly hurt you is that you are very stylish and there are more realistic or modern settings in the majority of games. Your work doesn't suggest an interest in those though.
Depending on how much you need to find a job or how much time you have to pursue a career you could mix things up a bit. Take a look at your work, take a look at the games that are out on the market right now..... how many have similar art styles to yours?
Sometimes its good to demonstrate what we are passionate about and sometimes its useful to display also an ability to adapt to other styles also.
Personally, I'd prefer to see you land at somewhere like Blizzard who already have a rich evocative ffantastical style , much like you do. I love to see people going to places where they thrive because they can be passionate and invest themselves fully because it matches their interests.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10413599-52.html
the problem is that a lot of publishers are closing studios and ending projects like it is the apocalypse. It is not really rational.
These stupid irrational decisions are going to cause more long term trouble in the games industry. Fewer game companies mean fewer games and ultimately less sales. There will be fewer risky, fresh game titles in the next couple years. The game industry is going to lose good people too, who will take less risky jobs in other sectors. All these things will hurt the industry.
The good news is that demand for games from consumers is still strong. In a year or two, I think you will see strong hiring again, as the execs start to pull their heads out of their asses.
Last interview i had was at a local CG studio doing kiddy movie stuff. The look on the guys face as he looked at my stuff said all of the above. I can just imagine a huger studio's unimpressed-ness..
That can't be the problem since people need to talk to you to ask your asking price.
I have a bunch of very good friends in the industry across canada that all tried to hook me up to no effect. And now most of them are also jobless and in a sad way competition for jobs.
I also keep doing the faceless email submitting which never led to anything at all of course. And then there's linkedin that got me contact with some HRs but again never leads to even an interview.
The only thing I can see that could possibly hurt you is that you are very stylish and there are more realistic or modern settings in the majority of games. Your work doesn't suggest an interest in those though.
Depending on how much you need to find a job or how much time you have to pursue a career you could mix things up a bit. Take a look at your work, take a look at the games that are out on the market right now..... how many have similar art styles to yours?
Sometimes its good to demonstrate what we are passionate about and sometimes its useful to display also an ability to adapt to other styles also.
Personally, I'd prefer to see you land at somewhere like Blizzard who already have a rich evocative ffantastical style , much like you do. I love to see people going to places where they thrive because they can be passionate and invest themselves fully because it matches their interests.
It's hard times all around and it's sort of luck of the draw right now, with the market being artist-saturated. I've been unemployed for 9 months. I've sent out 100+ job inquiries, only got 3 responses, which didn't pan out.
It seems like things are starting to pick up as of late though. Even with some studio cuts and closures, there are a lot more "I have a job" threads rather than the former. Things should start picking up very soon. Just have to stay positive and keep trying.
I was going to write a pretty similar response, but Kevin nailed it here. As you ask, do you need an AK47? Perhaps, the only possible thing i could say is a "bad" thing about your work is that it is too stylized, too niche to have the sort of mass hiring appeal that more generic work may present. I could see someone in hiring really loving your work, but simply being unsure about how you could adapt to their style, as you have a very clear well defined style in your work(which could also = lack of stylistic variation in your work, to some people).
Also something else to consider, there has long been a disproportionate amount of people wanting to be character artists, to the actual number of character artist positions available. Most studios have far more LDs, hard surface, props, etc type guys than they do characters, but there seems to be a very large % of people looking for work as character artists. So perhaps doing some small enviro scenes to show that versatility would go a long way. You've got some cool weapons and stuff on your site, but it is clearly tailored more towards organics.
Anyway I was already planning to make some mechanical stuff but I would be putting my usual twist on it and again would be wasted effort. because it would be too *gasp* creative for them. I just dont think hyper realistic guns and army thugs is impressive at all or stands out anymore, why do they demand to see it...
I don't know also I'm so run down on energy and getting prety bitter about all this so it's hard to invest any more energy into my portfolio when 1 year has led to squat.
I'll try to come up with some stuff... Maybe take some Vegas 2 screenshots although it's hard to point anything interesting out that I made in that. "I made that metal texture. I made that cement in the corner".... Gah.
Clearly I'm frustrated as hell right now. Thanks for everyone's comments.
I was told by a lawfirm that I shouldn't even try to get a visa unless i have one. Because of this advise i had to end talks with Naught Dog and Insomniac, who were actually the 2 top studios i was interested in and were actually showing interest.... The fact they didn't argue with that information or offer any way around it made it seem like there's nothing that can be done about that.
Then over the last year i keep hearing about people getting work visas by just giving a lawyer a wad of cash, and getting through without any problem despite having no degree.... Even know of someone that got a green card that way.
I don't know what to think anymore, but I get the feeling the only way I'm getting a US job is via Blizzard or some other such powerful company. I could very much be wrong however, I would love to hear from someone that definitely knows what they're talking about on this subject if I'm wrong..
Because of that mess of confusion I kind of gave up on the US and have just been looking in Canada for the last while. I don't even know if i need to have a visa before bothering to interview or if that is handled after the hiring is made? .. I'm having a hell of a time getting straight reliable answers from anyone on this stuff.
I did get that and replied. I guess something went wrong. I'll PM you about that.
Thanks Kev you always have something well thought to say. You and others always say Blizzard, I'd be happy to work there, but they didn't seem interested when i talked to the recruiter. I will assume again because of that visa stuff... Though I'm sure it could be resolved if a studio was backing me up with lawyers that know how to get what they want. So it comes back to the issue, doesn't seem anyone wants me enough for that.
I'll look into making some more 'realistic' pieces. Even though it makes absolutely no sense to think someone that can do something very imaginative can't make a brick wall and a mailbox.
Sure could use some ideas for interesting subject matter.
Anyway Gameloft Montreal is hiring, with your experience and skill I am sure you would be a shoe-in, I can even forward your resume to HR if you are interested. You just might have to be flexible on some things, and maybe people fear you wouldn't be because of your experience in the industry. Again, not saying it's valid, but people love to assume things bout people, especially when they are thumbing through A TON of resumes and folios.
As for Vegas 2, as mentioned earlier it's hard to use in my portfolio since i can't point to anything major and say "i did that". It's mostly unremarkable textures used a little bit everywhere. Because of this I felt like it would weaken my portfolio but I guess i'0ll throw up a couple screen shots just to show them I worked on something urban...
As i said I'll try to make something more 'realistic' but I just don't get ideas for that kinda stuff so it's hard to do as personal work.
And you know thinking about it more; If i had a portfolio that was all over the place with examples of every kind of style people would be telling me to specialize so i'm not entirely sure it's a solution. But I'll try.
Eclipse : I'll PM you.
It apparently still requires a bachelors or equivalent schooling. It's really a frustrating pile of rigid rules and they don't care if you have talent or experience unless its 12 years fulltime. This is what i've been told anyway. Yet anyone with no talent and that piece of paper can walk across in minutes. I would love to be in touch with these magical lawyers that keep getting these other people through without a degree so if you know of one let me know.
Thanks for any info. And you don't need to imagine the frustration since I'm apparently pooing it all over this thread. Sorry about that guys it's from not knowing what to do anymore..
Although you think you have better luck with your credentials.
-Woog
You're a better artist than me so I'm just assuming you need help with the other half of getting hired: the resume/interview process.
People may think this is cheesy but I took a resume building/job hunting course after I got canned by EA and I think it really helped me out. Your resume and interviewing skills are a big part of getting the job. You've got to break through the HR gate.
I keep hearing these stories but never know 'how'. Sometimes these people might have the massive work experience that can be used as a degree equivalent. If not, I'd really like to know how they got in.
I've been modding since 2003, graduated in 2008 from college that specializes in film FX. I still haven't found myself my first gig. Yet people tell me all the time I have great work and are frustrated at how I don't have a job. While all these other low-class talent get picked up right away.
I will be possibly going homeless at the end of this coming week since my lease is up. Yet all I get after applying to many many jobs out there is "no responses, rejections, or sorry "catch 22" we changed our minds"...
Just be thankful you are not in a situation like myself. Because as far as I know right now. This is my last week to really be able to do 3D.
In fact that's one of the main reasons i skipped college, and now that's biting me in the ass anyway. Damned if you do damned if you don't in every sense of the word.
I am thankful that I'm at least not in dire financial need right now and hope you don't have to become homeless. Looking at your stuff it seems you did a lot of what people are telling me to do : Guns soldiers and zombies, your stuff is definitely 'junior hire' calibur at least too that soldier is nicely done. And yet here we are.
It really seems like a dark time.
Best of luck!
I'm not in a position to give any advice, but I hope you find a job that caters to your skills.
I believe in most cases 2 years of experience = 1 year of school, so for a visa that requires a 4 year degree, 8 years of exp also qualifies. This may vary a bit, but thats the general idea.
Something I do want to comment on though in an effort to help you, since I'm a foreigner in the US and also have experience hiring and attempting to hire people here from abroad. You keep talking about 'pretty powerful studios' being the only way you might 'get in', and I think that's largely nonsense. I'll explain. Immigration law is immigration law. It's tough, but it's the same for everyone, there is no real bending it. The law is the law. Blizzard cannot twist it in some way by throwing $ at an immigration lawyer and suddenly some paperwork get's fudged and you instantly become qualified for an H-1. It just doesn't happen. If you don't have on paper the requirement for an H-1 B, (3 year degree and / or X numbers of experience, I forget how many exactly), then that instantly makes it tricky. Not impossible, there are other visa routes in, but all more complicated and time consuming, and potentially expensive. My route in was made trickier by only having a 2 year degree, so I had to go the O-1 route. Luckily I had a studio behind me that really wanted me, and a lot of experience. But there wasn't much I personally had to do about it, it was all handled by them. There was no slipping lawyers envelopes of cash.
What is possibly happening to you, is that the people who know anything about game Art are the ones that first contact you, and then as soon as your resume gets anywhere further inside their company it becomes apparent that you don't instantly qualify for an H-1. And then the interest tails off. That's just a guess, I don't even know for sure whether or not you do or don't on paper qualify. But If you don't have a 3 year degree it's going to be trickier.
In some ways the big studios may even find you less attractive an option as the smaller ones, because If they have a line of people waiting around the block who want to work for them, they may not feel the need to pursue complex visa stuff. This is purely a hunch on my part that I've had for a while, with little grounding in fact.
Whenever I see these 'degree or not degree threads' I always want to point out that a degree will always give you more options If you ever have the inkling that you might want to work somewhere other than your place of birth.
Good luck, but I'm sure you'll find something soon enough.
I have 10 years working experience but the problem is they won't accept any but the last 3 since the time before that was freelance. It's all these rigid bureacratic rules that keep getting in the way. There's no superseding "is this person clearly very talented" factor in any of it.
And guess what on top of all that, there's one special visa that exists only for fashion/photo models in which someone who exhibits "exceptional ability" can get a visa just on that merit. Which is such an loose term to work with, that just means "she iz hawt!?!!". Why models and not other things that depend on the employer needing "just the right look" like in art!?
If models can get a special visa on that ground so should all artists.
There are a few visas that are available to you, and the easier ones to obtain are the non-immigration visa. The downside to those is that it's only for a maximum of 24 months and you have to leave the country 10 days after your cease work. But I guess that's an extra 2 years worth of experience it may buy you.
It's all a big mess, and if you're having trouble finding work... I'm pretty much boned! :P
Best of luck, mate.
meh, i wish i already had my 4 million , than i would built a new studio in the "KRAUTZONE" from scratch, but meh
still gotta collect money
edit: pc still tries to post everything twice 0_o
I'm in the same situation as you are, only that I don't have much experience to prove. Months of searching without any reply...
At the moment I think that the job market in Europe is worse than CA or US.
Doesn't leave a whole lot of options for someone like me who just graduated. Hell if my parents didn't pay for my college I'd be totally F'ed in the A right now.
Definitely have a catch 22, where most studios are looking for people with experience and having shipped at least 2 AAA title's....
Meanwhile the only game I've ever worked on was Rock Tour Tycoon as an intern, not exactly the big budget game everyone played.
So you have one thing going for you, experience. That's more than a lot of us can say. Just have to stay positive and keep looking, or see if you can't get some contract jobs in the meantime.