Working in the 3D Ghetto?
polycounter lvl 18
Yes, I admit, I'm a poser.
Err, that is, I make my living making content for Poser and DAZ Studio through DAZ 3D.
Now, almost everywhere I go, I see the following:
On Poser / DS community forums, I see a decent bit of incredibly amateur work, some decent, and some really amazing works.
On general 3D forums, such as CGTalk, even the briefest MENTION of Poser seems to automatically call down the WRATH OF THE HEAVENS on whoever dared utter the forbidden word.
So, needless to say, I feel sometimes like I'm in a late 1800's factory, the kind where 12 year old orphans are forced to work 15 hours a day with two meals, and sleep with a single blanket on the concrete floor, while saying, "Please, sir, may I have some more?"
I'll be the first to admit that a LOT of people who make 3rd party content for these programs don't even have the talent God gave a turnip, but, seriously, there's actually quite a few decent to excellent artists working in the field, some of whom may even be known outside the Poser community. Stefan Morrell, who makes GORGEOUS cityscapes and such and is both well known and highly respected at CGTalk and other sites, sells environment pieces and other things through DAZ. Kim Goosen's infamous toon Girl eventually was converted to Poser format, and sold at DAZ.
If the problem is in using pre-made content, then it's a tad hypocritical - even the studios will use pre-made content, admittedly for things that just aren't worth the time invested in things like scene-filler. TurboSquid, among others, makes plenty of bucks selling these things, and the prices are so far above the Poser community typical prices that I seriously doubt it's the hobbyists like them that are buying it.
In many cases that I've seen, said pre-made content was either used as a base to work from with some very nice, painterly postwork, or the user made much of that "pre-made content" themselves. Heck, I've done pictures in Poser where it turned out that I actually made everything in said image (previous products and the like).
Now, I'm not demanding that all Poser and DS users be given respect. Most of them, honestly, are average at best. What I AM asking is, would it be even POSSIBLE to actually judge an image for the image, and not whether or not pre-made content was used?
Err, that is, I make my living making content for Poser and DAZ Studio through DAZ 3D.
Now, almost everywhere I go, I see the following:
On Poser / DS community forums, I see a decent bit of incredibly amateur work, some decent, and some really amazing works.
On general 3D forums, such as CGTalk, even the briefest MENTION of Poser seems to automatically call down the WRATH OF THE HEAVENS on whoever dared utter the forbidden word.
So, needless to say, I feel sometimes like I'm in a late 1800's factory, the kind where 12 year old orphans are forced to work 15 hours a day with two meals, and sleep with a single blanket on the concrete floor, while saying, "Please, sir, may I have some more?"
I'll be the first to admit that a LOT of people who make 3rd party content for these programs don't even have the talent God gave a turnip, but, seriously, there's actually quite a few decent to excellent artists working in the field, some of whom may even be known outside the Poser community. Stefan Morrell, who makes GORGEOUS cityscapes and such and is both well known and highly respected at CGTalk and other sites, sells environment pieces and other things through DAZ. Kim Goosen's infamous toon Girl eventually was converted to Poser format, and sold at DAZ.
If the problem is in using pre-made content, then it's a tad hypocritical - even the studios will use pre-made content, admittedly for things that just aren't worth the time invested in things like scene-filler. TurboSquid, among others, makes plenty of bucks selling these things, and the prices are so far above the Poser community typical prices that I seriously doubt it's the hobbyists like them that are buying it.
In many cases that I've seen, said pre-made content was either used as a base to work from with some very nice, painterly postwork, or the user made much of that "pre-made content" themselves. Heck, I've done pictures in Poser where it turned out that I actually made everything in said image (previous products and the like).
Now, I'm not demanding that all Poser and DS users be given respect. Most of them, honestly, are average at best. What I AM asking is, would it be even POSSIBLE to actually judge an image for the image, and not whether or not pre-made content was used?
Replies
WRATH OF THE HEAVENS!!
PFFFTT... speak for yourself man, I can't get enough of it!!!
Composition, lighting, etc.
It's like saying graphic designers put forth no effort because they're designing advertisements or whatever using other people's art and fonts.
How about its like ripping off someone's site design and replacing it with your content instead of designing your own?
I just have a really bad taste in my mouth from all the crap poser art that used to be posted in 3dcafe a decade ago. All the top images were naked poser chicks with water running on them.
Most people I've talked to that use poser don't respect CG artists that create their content from scratch.
Some people like to think if they worked really hard on a finished piece of art that it somehow makes it better or more valid. So those people tend to look down on solutions like Poser because it's so easy to make a human character with it. If that idea had any truth to it we would all be modeling objs in notepad. Why buy a copy of Max when you can save money and make better 3D art in notepad? lol.
The funny thing is though in the commercial art world where most of us do our work it's not how hard you worked on something that makes it good. The only thing that matters in the end are: meeting deadlines, lowering the cost, and achieving a high quality.
In many cases well done ready made content helps achieve all of those goals.
I take solace in the fact that digital imagery is constantly evolving, there will never be a "standard" 3d figure for too long and character artists should be around for a while.
Think of all the restrictions we have and how those will diminish over time. Things like particles, texture size, transparencies, Polygons, all these things will become less and less a problem, and we'll constantly have new things to try out to make really cool game characters. Not to mention whatever cool new tech we haven't even thought of yet. Getting character models to work with the gameplay is an artform in itself with many facets that i wont even get into: animation, hit detection, sillhouete readability, etc, etc.
Artists will always push beyond the confines of whatever flavor of the month might be overcoming art, it's just how it goes. That's what i like about this field, it's never stale or mundane and always evolving. The fact that poser's out there just makes that much more art seem "stale" when compared against good hand crafted assets.
There's nothing wrong with selling models as long as they're good and generate enough money. People will make anything they desire with models they've bought - be it from daz3d, turbosquid or other site. You can't help that, so no point worrying
btw, this thread reminded me of nice iron maiden album
i don't remember seeing anything decent made in poser tbh
yep, show more images!
And who cares what other artists think of using poser, its obviously a way of making money... Its the hobbyist posers who do it for free/fun that should be dealt with by the WRATH OF THE HEAVENS!
oh and if you don't believe me... how does a strip club called "sugar bares", a restaurant called "mama kings" and a perimeter of razor wire fence sound
Poser by itself doesn't take anyone very far. The included content is ugly and useless for any purpose. It's basically a store you pay however many hundreds of dollars poser costs for the luxury of shopping in. If you want to get anything nice out of the program, you have to buy it or make it yourself.
Which is were Daz3D and co come in.
There is a lot of nice stuff at http://www.renderosity.com. Lots of people making nice content for the program there, and lots of nice images created with it. But also lots of uninspired crap and/or pr0n.
Valandar, any tips on getting started in that part of the industry, and making money from it?
was only able to browse the shop on that site
Not that I'm scratching in the dirt any more, but what kind of cash are you making from these Poser models?
Admittedly, much of it is pinup work, but hey.
As for what -I- make, here's a WIP I'm currently making for DAZ's current-gen male figure. It's just a simple pose to show the clothing (I made neither the human figure nor the hair, just the armor and clothing):
But if it's your way of making money, I won't judge you. I myself would never consider contributing to a community with which I have several issues.
that wasnt actually used was it
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Death-Iron-Maiden/dp/B0000BYM3K[/ame]