degree vs. portfolio, "falling back on a degree"
I know this has been discussed many times but... im gonna rant a bit.
So I was having a chat with my parents about my plans for the future; I'm starting my 2nd year at a community college in a couple weeks to get an associates in animation, then (probably) doing another two years at F.I.T. I'm not 100% sure I want to do that though... But anyways what i'm getting at is, my parents really want me to finish the 4 years of schooling so even if I can't find a job right away, I'd have a degree to "fall back on" this seems like a decent idea but that doesn't really seem possible in this industry...
So for you guys in the industry, did you go to school or are self taught? and for the self taught dudes, did the companies ask much about a degree?
Hope that makes sense and thanks for readin'
So I was having a chat with my parents about my plans for the future; I'm starting my 2nd year at a community college in a couple weeks to get an associates in animation, then (probably) doing another two years at F.I.T. I'm not 100% sure I want to do that though... But anyways what i'm getting at is, my parents really want me to finish the 4 years of schooling so even if I can't find a job right away, I'd have a degree to "fall back on" this seems like a decent idea but that doesn't really seem possible in this industry...
So for you guys in the industry, did you go to school or are self taught? and for the self taught dudes, did the companies ask much about a degree?
Hope that makes sense and thanks for readin'
Replies
but there ARE companies that value and even require a degree. so like.. yeah.
I was a student for seven years and had a blast
industry learning is restriceted IMO its a young industry, bring something from outside and you will be in a much better position than bringing something that everyone else has too
having said that and read your post propperly i would be hesitant as the learning you garner at a "games based course" probably wont be as good as actually being there doiung that and getting the fucking T'shirt
Don't compare yourself to other students compare yourself to your future peers.
Addressing your parents' point of having a degree to fall back on: I don't think that philosophy ever applies to any artistic line of work. It's all portfolio based.
I'm not trying to discourage you from going to school, but know what you're getting into. It's all about your portfolio.
game schools = paying to have people read you the books you bought for the class by past students who couldn't make it in the industry.
art schools = paying to be slapped around for two years while learning how to be a better artist.
Godspeed sir.
I agree. A degree is good for becoming a lawyer, doctor, psychologist, finance and business blah blah blah. Even with those occupations you would have to get a Masters to compete with people in those lines of work.
now if you are interested in programming, that may be a different story, but it seems like you are more interested in an art based career. guess it depends on a couple of things. are you living with your parents right now? is your finishing college a condition of living under their roof? moving out on your own and working enough hours will probably take up just as much time as going to school... unless you are out on your own, then you realize this already... but i do know that going to school and holding down a job doesn't provide enough hours of income to support yourself unless you are sharing an apartment, or living in a total run down crime and drug infested area of town.... and it certainly doesn't allow you enough time to work on your portfolio having to work that much to pay the rent and eat.... but hey, cost of living is different everywhere you go.
either way, you need to be working on your portfolio religiously. like Vig said, the waters a rough right now, so finishing school may not be a bad idea, but finishing won't help you too much in getting a job somewhere else. just because you went to school to study animation doesn't mean you'll be able to fall back on a job as a web designer or graphic designer if no one in the game industry is interested in hiring you. all art related careers are very specific in what they are looking for out of their employee.
oh, and if it is any consultation... a good friend of mine went to AI for a year... dropped out because he realized he needed to work on his portfolio to get anywhere... stayed with his parents for a few years, and now has a full-time gig.... why? because his portfolio kicked ass.
But its not the degree that will make you successful. Its your portfolio and your attitude.
NONE OF THESE THINGS SHOULD BE MISS-JUDGED AS WORTHLESS
Because if you don't find a job in games ... then go look for "fall back'' job using your game art degree .... how would that give you more jobs? I don't get the logic.
I mean it works if say, you want to start your own audit company, but it fails, then I guess you could always get a job as an accountant thanks to the appropriate degree as a fall back - because one can safely be hired based on degree only in that field (I guess). But for art it doesn't really apply...
And yeah degrees are good if you need to relocate too.
Nearly ten years later, we both love games and still tinker in the field, but he works as a 3D artist doing architectural visualizations, and I do lots of 3D and interactive for an ad agency. We couldn't get those jobs if all we knew was lowpoly and level building, but those game-related skills are still valuable. Just today I found out that Papervision3D for Flash has a new method for importing .md2 models. Every in my office is shaking their heads that I know all about how to use them the first day we started with them, just from making Quake2 models ages ago.
Solid art/design skills can directly translate into big wins in both game and non-game related careers, so broaden your education rather than narrow it. If you can go from games to advertising to designing consumer goods to film production, you're in way better shape to find jobs you want to do and flexible enough to survive tough economic times. If you have to 'fall back', you really won't fall all that far if you have diverse experiences and a broad skillset.
I'm with Shepeiro enjoy your college years.
My last job was incredibly hesitant to hire people with out college degrees. I'd say get a degree in something besides strictly games. You might decide in 5 years that you hate the games industry and just really like it more as a hobby or perhaps you can't get a job in the industry. Or get a degree in finance go work as a CPA then in 5-10 years you'll have enough money to fund your own game:)
I wish i thought of that!
B
If you are going to go to school to get a degree to "fall back on," then get a more technical degree. You can't "fall back" on an art degree. An art degree won't get you an art job, and it certainly won't get you any job that your portfolio wouldn't. A degree in a more technical field will be more transferable, and more likely to net you stable employment to weather the lean times. I'd suggest something in data management. (databases, server maintenance, etc...) This sort of field is not that hard to learn, there are always job opportunities, and it even pays well.
And i'll side with Shep... If I got anything from my degree it was 3 years "out" to study/learn and look at what i wanted to do and I also met some awesome people to boot. Dont take a game art course though haha
I think we all know that some people have aptitudes for certain things. Hard work conquers all though.
If your speaking about commercial art, then you have a valid opinion as the skillset is more in reach to learn immediately. However, if you are speaking about fine arts as well, then your talking out the rear. How do you show the emotion of languish? How do you convey a poem in light? Learning how to communicate your ideas and seek new ways of seeing things while experiencing new varieties of skills you would never other wise get the chance. Say like casting bronze, using a tig, printmaking, roman art and architecture history from a lead in the field. Making friends with diverse fields from a engineer, to a plant scientist. A university setting especially allows these scarce items to come together for a student to have a smorgasbord of knowledge and learning that would otherwise take much longer to come across and at greater cost.
Getting a degree does not always equate to getting a job, sometimes its to build a better more informed citizen. That's one of the saddest parts today that people assume that school should only be used for the fastrack to getting a job, versus having an experience and situation in their life to grow and seek new ways of understanding and living.
Of course, with how student loans have gone, you have no choice but to choose careers versus a finding a life path in higher education these days. Once your out the door, the payments begin immediately, no matter if you want to take the lower paying non-profit job, work in the cafe while you paint at night, or spend time in Peacecorps.
I have a degree in game design, but when I graduated my skills weren't up to par so I never got a job. And since I focused so much on 3d, my fine art skills went down hill (but to be honest, I wasn't really the best to begin with). I soon realized that I pretty much backed myself into a corner. I have 3d skills, but not the best, so I can't get into a game company. I don't have the best 2d skills so I can't do graphic design or stuff like to pay the bills until I get a game job. So essentially, my degree is useless outside of the game industry. I would really like to go back to school and get a masters in fine art or architecture, but that is a long ways away.
So my advice would be, IF you can get skilled enough to get a job without going to school, DO IT. Otherwise, get the degree.
Also, work your ass off, because someone else out there is.
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Goddamn right.
There's an attitude that some things just come easy to certain people. I believe that some things come easier to them, but nothing worth having or doing is ever easy.
My personal opinion is if you love making art then just make it; you don't need a degree to make art. Outsider/low-brow art for the win.
Also, I agree w/ Richard Kain about not being able to 'fall back' on an art degree. Art is a dream job, you fall back on technology/teaching jobs. With that said, if you decide to go to university for the security of having something to fall back on, you still need to work your ass off at it. Treat it like a second rate priority and you will be doubly fucked (student loans and no job prospects because you suck).
This is the smartest thing I've ever heard. I have a four year art degree from a state school [a real college]. And even though I don't have an industry job yet, I wouldn't trade those four year for anything. Best years of my life [so far]. Just male sure you use those 4 years to do all of the things said above, AND have a great portfolio. Just do it.
Getting a degree = having a load of new life experiences, learning to look after yourself, cook and buy toilet paper.
My degree is fairly unrelated to my job (like most people that I know), but I'm glad I did it.
I want to take some photoshop painting courses too, but I'm sure they aren't much better.
After 2 years of community college I may go to gnomon, but I'm still undecided, and I need to save up for that.
If after 2-4 years you have a degree but no portfolio, what the hell have you been doing with yourself? With or without a degree you need a healthy portfolio, and it depends on the studio. Get your stuff together and start applying, it can't hurt to find out.
Learning the basics should really only take a fortnight if you're actually serious about these things.
The course seems to be more of a hinderence rather than an augmentation. You'll be falling back to basics when you should be doing more advanced things - or working already.
They force you to create things they want you to create, creating them by the book so it all looks the same. Not very good for a portfolio if you ask me!
I'm going to be taking a course in Computing Science as I really think work in other areas that you aren't so strong in is better than work in an already decent place (that you can teach yourself). The statement 'jack-of-all trades' falls into play but I think it's bollocks. You can learn as much as you want to learn. Your brain can take it all!
I have loved every minute of uni and don't regret going at all. Was 17 when I went so was to young to do much else really like start looking for a game industry job... And on a plus side the Scottish system means I won't really be in debt when I finish either.
PM me about it please! Your opinion of it would help me.
As a side note: If you are going to teach yourself, make sure you show your work to people that are prepared to criticise it, ie. not your mates. They're trying to please you by saying it's good but, realistically, it might not stand a chance in the industry.
That said, I still wish I had a degree. If I could go back and do it again, I'd take a degree in a traditional art field like Fine Arts or Illustration. Any monkey can learn how to model or texture, but really solid traditional art knowledge and understanding takes longer to learn and act as a much more solid foundation to build your game art skills on top of (as opposed to just being able to model and texture).
Just DO NOT go for a degree in Game Art or Game Design (or something like that) - 99% of them are an utter waste of time, money and effort.
A good point which got me to join my course was a competition it ran called Dare to Be Digital (http://www.daretobedigital.com) which is sponsored by autodesk, adobe etc, and you get mentored by games companies like blitz and rockstar.
That said, you only get as much as you put in, there will always be people who just skim through uni then wonder why they can't get a job at the end of it while the people who can balance their time and work hard get the best of both worlds.
If you have an art degree, it is useless without an accompanying portfolio, so having it "to fall back on" is a bad idea. If you want a degree to "fall back on" get something that could be helpful (IE a business degree will certainly help if you want to go freelance or start your own company some day).
If you're employable after 2 years with an associates in animation, then consider looking for jobs. If you're not, then go to school and get a 4 year degree.
This is a subject that is a common experience for a lot of people. We all go through the crisis of trying to figure out what we want to do with our lives when the structure of high school is left behind. So everyone has their own take on the topic, and probably wants to share.
You make several interesting points. But I was speaking strictly in the practical sense. The OP was talking about getting a degree as something "to fall back on." Meeting and interacting with interesting people and professors in various fields is not something that you "fall back on." It can certainly broaden your experiences and horizons, and possibly even establish some valuable networking connections. But those are all subjective benefits, unique to the individual. In terms of acquiring stable employment, an art degree in either graphic design or fine art is not a very good choice.
It is very common for artists to get the axe first when times get lean for a company. Corporations know that having an artist on the payroll is a matter of convenience, not necessity. There is always outsourcing and stock art to fall back on. Obvoiusly those are not good solutions, but managers concerned only with the bottom line don't care. If a company has to decide between the person making the brochures, and the person managing the company's internal database, they are going to fire the artist. Technical jobs tend to be in much greater demand, and usually higher paying than artistic positions. Getting a more technical degree is more likely to insure stable employment than getting an art degree.
YES get a degree (but keep it cheap)
NO don't waste your time and money on a game-specific degree. especially not your money.
Your parents are wrong and what you have been taught about getting degrees are too.
If you want to be a 3D artist I don't see many kids being like "yea that's what I want to do but ill get a degree in maths just in case..."
A piece of paper is just that...a piece of paper. It doesnt guarantee you anything...your hard-work, dedication and talent are what's going to get you where you want to go.
Also the problem is you don't need a degree to do a 3d artist job, you need skills. Because the education system is set up in a generic fashion at least in the US. All you need to teach is a masters, no skill what so ever and be good at BS to pass through the interview process of the Higher Ed institutions. The end result is a ton of people with degrees with no proper training looking for jobs. Yes it is a bad thing. Getting a degree isn't bad, getting "training" that can't get you a job, because you were not prepared for a the huge amount of money you paid is. I don't have a problem with degrees, I have a problem with people getting ripped off.
So really its missing out on a good opportunity of paid education here.