Man, Mir looked great for all 5 second of offence in the second round right before getting mauled. Too bad, but they can still have the rubber match. BTW GSP's getting too boring imo.
i really hope fedor gets a contract once his current one with affliction is over in aug. After seeing lesnar pull his WWE crap I don't want to see that again. Fedor can change that.
i think the whole elbow thing to bisping was probably overkill, but now he'll always have a nice reminder of getting his face crushed into the ground after talking a bunch of trash about a guy who hasn't KO anyone in the past 5 years. Glad dan got a nice knockout finally.
I was always a hughes fan so once he started to decline I thought i could jump over to gsp... but he's just not that interesting to watch.
Lesnar mir fight was such buillshit! Mir was dominating on the ground AND standing up, which is ridiculous considering the size difference, every time they moved. Just laying on someone in half guard and not throwing a single real punch is no way to win a fight, that's just using crazy steroid retard strength.
Mir got his ass beat, that's what can happen in the HEAVY weight ring. To say Lesnar didn't deserve the win is horse shit. He beat Mir up, that's all there was to it. I actually felt bad for Mir as he was getting his face caved in.
Loved the Henderson fight, so happy he won in that fashion.
To say Lesnar didn't deserve the win is horse shit. He beat Mir up, that's all there was to it.
Swinging your fist from your elbow down is not a punch -- nobody in a fair weight match should be able to win with blows like that. He did not move in Mir's guard, he did not succeed in taking side control in any takedowns, he got rocked by a much smaller man standing up. He laid on top of him, too scared of mir repossessing full guard to move, and tapped his physically implausible fists against mir with no more force than he'd swat a fly with until he eventually got the win.
He demonstrated no skill and no class. The moment a fighter near his size with any technical ability gets near him he's done. Hell, mir even beat him before, he hasnt got much in the means of grappling if he slips up and fails his crazy bear hug groundfighting.
adendum: this is a real sport, playing a heel > professionalism?
As for henderson, the win was completely legit. It's how the sport works, and these are the best fighters in america, they know what can happen if they don't defend themselves. Plus it isn't like standing over a guy who just fell down and not doing anything is awfully safe anyway, to my knowledge UFC allows upward kicks from the ground to a standing opponent, which are incredibly physically dangerous, and naturally leglocks -- which are an awful lot worse to get subjected to than an armbar or a choke, the margin of error between 'this hurts i should tap' and 'i'm not walking for six months' is hair thin.
I agree, Lesnar is a meat head jackass, I don't like the guy. The heavy weight class is the most ridiculous weight class because of fights like this.
But regardless he beat up Mir. He got the W because he used what he has - brute strength and weight. There's no "well you didn't fight correctly so you didn't earn the win" bullshit. That's why I love this sport, lots of different ways to succeed. That's all there is to it, imo.
I don't see how anyone thought Mir was even close to winning or kicking Lesners ass for any part of that fight? Sure in the start of the 2nd round he got in some decent shots but his face had already been turned to shredded roast beef by then.
Lesner is a dick. Oh well. He uses what he has size and brute strength. Why knock him for that and to say that those punches of his don't deliver much force maybe you should rewatch the damn fight and see just how jacked up Mirs face is.
Some serious LOL's coming from the Lesnar haters in this thread. The dude is A.) Champion and B.) Entertaining to watch. I pretty well got my money's worth in his fight alone.
I'm with Jesse. I'm not sure which fight was watched, but there was no way Mir had the upperhand at any point in that fight. I almost wish he had of, it would have taken that fight to 11. No skill? Laugh out loud. Don't forget, Lesnar was also a national wrestling champion before going to the WWE. The dude knows his way around a body. The whole point of the ground game is to ensure your opponent cannot get the offensive while ensuring you're doing some damage on the way. Lesnar pretty well did that 100% of the time, didn't he? Ya, no skill. He had Mir wasting energy while taking punches from Lesnar's masonry-bricks (fists) for the entire first round. It was as if Mir never trained! Then, of course, the second round.
It certainly reads as though I'm a Lesnar fan-boy. I certainly enjoy his fights, but I'm not about to get him tattoo'd on my bicep. I suppose I am just trying to say the fight was a lot more one-sided than the Mir fellas are making it out to be and that Lesnar certainly has some skill. I would love to see someone else his size, speed, and skill set join UFC. It'd be like watching 2 rhino's fight.
Bisping being knocked-out was just awesome. Hendo's follow-up, while unnecessary, was legit and added to the "HOLY SHIT" factor of the knock-out. Maybe Mario should be faster on his toe's and get to the winner faster after an obvious knock-out?
GSP vs. Alves was, well, boring. GSP dominated but it wasn't very entertaining. Take-down after take-down after take-down... Zz...
I wish they showed more of the earlier undercard matches, though. I wanted to see where all that blood came from.
The hate for Lesnar is exactly what I'd expect...it's what people do when they lose to guys with the strength to cave your face in and sit on top of you and you not be able to defend yourself or do anything remotely aggressive. He'll always be hated by people smaller/weaker than him. Tactics and technical skills don't mean much when a guy can pick you up, drop you to the mat and then sit on you all day long and just spin and crack you in the head with some elbows or just hammer fist you into pulp. He deserves his win because he won, plain and simple. No kicks to the nuts like you see a lot of the smaller lower weight class members do in fights. Although if he kicked somebody in the nuts I figure it'd shatter their pelvis.
Oh and the leaping elbow smash to the face = pure win!
Watched UFC 100, and loved it. Great card, great fights, what more can you ask for? The Bisping Henderson fight was AWESOME. Loved that fight. Bisping talked WAY too much crap, and Henderson never let anything really get to him. Then, the knock out. Beautiful.
GSP Alves was boring, I gotta agree. I expect a lot more from GSP. I'm a huge fan, and think he could have done a better. I don't know, I just really wanted to see more. Maybe he thought Alves was too much of a threat on his feet, and didn't wanna take the chance? Smart fight, but pretty dull.
Mir Lesnar was pretty lame. I won't say Lesnar CAN'T fight, he tore Heath Herring apart, and that guys no slouch. But to lay on top of a guy and not move, not try to get a better position, just throw punches (Those things WERE heavy punches, like it or not), is just boring. It showed his fear of Mir, at least that's what I think.
And his antics after the fight were completely ridiculous. I saw the apology vid, adam provided, but you can totally tell he was put up to that apology, Forced, weak, lame. just like Lesnar's personality.
But UFC was a GREAT time. I'm not like those sports fans that cry when their local team loses, or whatever. Frank Mir got beat, fair and square, it sucks, but that's the sport. Anyone can be beat at any given time, which is one reason it makes it a great sport. (Not suggestion anyone here is crying over Mir, just an example of how weird I think those guys are, who flip out, and get all weepy when they're home town, football/baseball/hockey/tennis/whatever team lost.)
The whole point of the ground game is to ensure your opponent cannot get the offensive while ensuring you're doing some damage on the way. .
Not exactly. The point of the groundgame is dominating space... Which i'll admit lesnar did, to a degree, by pure size alone. However, on the offense controlling space means
-> neutralizing opponent's guard
(lesnar avoided guard with his takedowns; expected from a wrestler of his caliber)
-> avoiding getting roped into half guard (lesnar could not prevent mir from repossessing or catching half guard every time they hit the ground -- not too surprising considering mir's jiujitsu experience, so not exactly bad for lesnar)
-> PASSING half guard, establishing side control, working torward a submission or mount for g&p (THIS is where lesnar showed no skill. You have to create a little space in order to pass ((OR to posture up and start delivering strong blows)), and every time lesnar tried/let go of his retard strength head control on mir he quickly started to lose ground and re-smothered mir before he got pulled into his guard. This wasnt exactly horrible grappling, he was successfully stalling from a grappling perspective, but he showed absolutely no ability to upgrade his position.)
The strikes he delivered were completely awful. Now, i'm not calling him stupid for that -- obviously lesnar knows his own strength, and knows completely awful, no posture, elbow swing strikes are more than enough to injure a puny mortal sized man like mir, but acting like he dominated is ridiculous. He won in a way no smaller fighter could, relying on his brute strength to make an awkward, stalling top half-guard pin into a winning position.
To summarize
He showed no movement in the ground, his only control was from a kinda sloppy neck crank, he got rocked during the one standup trade at the start of the second round, and his takedowns weren't even that good (mir always caught half guard) and he didn't throw a single good g&p strike until mir was pretty much already obliterated by his weak, but more than strong enough considering his massive size advantage, elbow swinging punches.
TKfrog, if this were no weightclass no holds barred original UFC i'd agree with you, but considering this is supposedly legitimate MMA, it's pretty disappointing to see a fight go like that. It was not a competition of skill, it was a demonstration that they need a super heavyweight class.
"FUCK BUD LIGHT THEY DONT PAY ME SHIT, IMMA DRINK ME A COORS"
Was a sweet ass set of fights, some ass kicking, some tech, pretty well rounded destruction. Brock's WWE shit was obnoxious though, its why i can tolerate UFC. Not tapping gloves at the start of a fight? Seriously? Unless there was some other shit going on (mir did look a little banged up from somethin), its lame.
its not about personalities and rivals, its just guys who are really good at beating the shit out of people going against eachother. Hope they put him in his place, and someone comes in to destroy DonkeyKong (though, Mir may be the closest thing to a Mario!)
elbow swing strikes are more than enough to injure a puny mortal sized man like mir
I'm kinda sorta okay with most of your bitching here, Lesnar's hardly a technical master, but "puny mortal?" Gimme a break. Frank Mir is 6'3", and he weighed in at 245. Lesnar only has him by 20 pounds, which is the same weight range as the Light Heavyweight division, and no one complains that the Light Heavyweight class is unfair to the 186lb fighters. Mir wasn't facing some unfair fight against the Incredible Hulk - he faced a stronger wrestler and let the wrestler take him to the mat. If a fighter can't stay on his feet against Lesnar or can't disrupt Lesnar's game plan, he's going to lose.
Fedor is shorter and lighter than Frank Mir. Does anyone think he'll let Lesnar climb all over him and ride him into the mat?
I'm kinda sorta okay with most of your bitching here, Lesnar's hardly a technical master, but "puny mortal?" Gimme a break. Frank Mir is 6'3", and he weighed in at 245. Lesnar only has him by 20 pounds, which is the same weight range as the Light Heavyweight division, and no one complains that the Light Heavyweight class is unfair to the 186lb fighters. Mir wasn't facing some unfair fight against the Incredible Hulk - he faced a stronger wrestler and let the wrestler take him to the mat. If a fighter can't stay on his feet against Lesnar or can't disrupt Lesnar's game plan, he's going to lose.
Fedor is shorter and lighter than Frank Mir. Does anyone think he'll let Lesnar climb all over him and ride him into the mat?
I'll concede, frank mir definitely failed to capitalize on the two openings he created on the ground. His lacking skill with takedowns compared to lesnar was definitely apparent, and yeah, Fedor's mastery of clinch and takedowns is precisely what Mir was lacking.
One can definitely fight on the ground with lesnar, though. He's showed again and again he doesnt know a thing to do aside from pin a guy down (seeing as he couldnt even safely pass half guard with mir's head controlled.) Mir's problem was more cockiness (flying knee, diving for the sweep/reversal off the first takedown when he should have just tried to get guard) than letting lesnar take him down.
I've got to argue with you on the weigh ins, though -- the actual size and weight disparity between the two of them is much bigger than that. Cutting weight is allowed within the UFC rules, and lesnar, likely after his long career in wrestling, is obviously very good at cutting weight. He's nowhere near mir's size, and yet squeaks into the same weightclass. However, if there was a heavier class, he'd be fighting in it -- there's no reason guys of his scale should cut down to UFC heavyweight. It just dumbs down the competition..
Could a more skillful fighter (or perhaps more appropriately skilled, abetter wrestler, judoka, or sambo competitor) stop Lesnar even with the size disparity? Sure. Is lesnar an interesting or legitimate contribution to Mixed Martial arts as a sport, and does he display any talent or technicality? Hell no, and so i'm already more than a little bored of him as heavyweight champion.
All I've heard about this is that Lesnar, a guy who was known as a dick in amateur wrestling, went into pro wrestling and acted like a dick, quit that in a way that shits all over everything people did to make him a star, went to pro football and failed at it and acted like a dick, and is now a rising MMA star who acts like a dick, won his match and then acted like a dick.
I really dislike Lesnar but people that say he shows no skill and bla bla bla are just full of shit. He is one of the very best wrestlers in the UFC and that takes a lifetime to achieve. He might not be the most well rounded MMA fighter ever but his wrestling and size is obviously enough to be successful. I dont personally think he is the best HW though. Fedor is way better and even with his small size would probably beat him, so could Barnett. In the UFC i think Shane Carwin is the biggest threat to Lesnar and after that maybe Velasquez, i just hope that Carwin wins the upcoming fight and goes on to beat Frank.
Carwin and Lesnar have fairly equal wrestling and the size difference isnt huge, Carwin is a much better striker and i think he will have good enough wrestling to keep it on the feet.
lesnar could use some better actual fighting skills, but it's not uncommon for a guy that can just brawl to dominate, given his size, lesnar currently is unstoppable. He does have skill as a greco wrestler, and he's very decorated at it, so I think he can be a legit fighter if he just drops the wwe bullshit and actually trains.
A guy of that size has got to have a cardio weakness, can he keep up that pace for 3-5 rounds? He looked a little tired in his fight with that 1 huge punch, I can't remember who it was but it was lesnars 2nd fight in the ufc I think.
Bisping... well I don't like the guy, something about him, and that was quite the knock out.
GSP? boring, sure, only because his fight plan worked well. When a plan is perfectly executed, it will seem very boring, especially in martial arts (or combat). If anyone who has studied an art can probably agree, when you do a technique well, it seems rather effortless and boring, and for onlookers, it will look like magic at first, but then people get used to it and the wow factor is not as strong. GSP is in there to win fights, that's his goal, not to come out beat up because he wants to entertain the crowd.
I'd like to see him gain the weight to jump into anderson silva's class ... that would be an awesome fight. But GSP is a smart guy, very calculating, if he has confidence he can put on that much weight and still fight effectively, that will be an amazing fight, otherwise.
The fitch fight was boring as hell, I would've liked to have seen a bloody undercard as well.
GSP also tore his groin from what I remember in like the 3rd round. He was talking about it after so that is why he kept doing his thing over and over because with that injury he didn't want it to become apparant and have that effect his fight.
That's right, Jesse, I forgot about that till now. That can definitely effect fight performance (or any performance, come to think of it). Like I said in my earlier post, I'm a big GSP fan, so I'm glad he won. And the injury just helps remind me why that fight was as stellar as his others.
I enjoyed it a lot, even the smaller fights. Like the first one, first time I ever saw a Japanese guy win on the card. Very good fight.
Henderson Bisping was pretty good all the way through too. Amazing finish. Totally within the rules. The ref was running in after the first hit, but he was behind henderson so couldn't stop it so easily. You always see guys go in for the second hits because you never know if they are truly out in that split second, why take the chance.
You guys are wasting time and energy hating on Lesnar. I don't like him, sure, but I don't see why people get such a bug up their ass. It's all fun and entertainment. I figured Lesnar would win. Even with no skill someone like him would be a wildcard, but he does have some skill and definitely dominated the match.
Complaining about his size advantage is also a waste. We've all heard the same arguments in the past. Remember Tim Sylvia? Same exact thing. It's obviously not going to stop or go away. Some other giant will be there to fill in.
There are points for aggression, if you are not advancing position on the ground you are just not gaining points, there's nothing wrong with it. No one should be forced to fight the way anyone else wants them to. If you can sustain with the position you have, why give the opponent an opportunity to slip out? It's up to the ref to stand them up if it gets too stagnant. Lesnar is still not as bad as "Floor and Bore" Rashad Evans' first 15 or so fights, but Rashad is pretty well rounded and fun to watch now.
Lesnar is still very inexperienced in the octagon. With time I can see him improving his abilities, look how far he has already come from his embarrassing first fight where all he did was throw his weight and hammerfist like a mad dog.
Just enjoy. I love seeing Lesnar's stupid antics. I can't wait for the day when he does a suplex.:)
"Hit him with your groin!" Greg Jackson cracked me up with his comments.
Mir was pretty much out after the 2nd hit. I think that's the first time I've seen someone knocked out with short punches like that from within guard. I don't really like Mir or Lesnar either way so I wasn't pissed to see Lesnar win. He's in a completely different discussion than Tim Sylvia. Lesnar has a great wrestling game, and Sylvia only held the title due to size and piss poor competition in the HW division.
Happy to see GSP and Fitch win.
I actually like Bisping and Henderson, so I didn't care either way. I would've liked to see Bisping put up a better fight, but hopefully he learns from this. Henderson is really the first top guy he's faced, except for maybe Rashad.
UFC 100 was great. Although I was rooting for Bisping it was apparent pretty much from the beginning of the fight that he didn't have any gameplan for dealing with Hendo.
Why was it apparent to me and everybody else watching the fight that circling left into Hendos right hand was possibly a bad idea? I thought Bisping was some kind of master tactitian?!? Hendo stalked him like a predator and finished in the most devasting way.
That last elbow drop to the face was totally uncalled for though. I don't care if it's in the rules or not. Hitting a person in that way when they can't defend themselves is fucked up.
Brock Lesnar was a big dickhead too. Mir stood there after the fight with his face smashed to a bloody pulp and Lesnar was still screaming at him like he'd bummed his favourite dog or something. You can't argue with Lesnar's power though. A fight with Fedor is would be amazing.
I'm not convinced hong man choi is a good fighter, like lesnar,he has his size, but in the few fights I've seen him in (excluding the jose canseco fight) he was just using his size, he gassed quickly and was pretty slow from the getgo, lesnar has more speed than choi.
I dont really understand the argument that lesnar is an amazing wrestler -- a good take down doesnt mean getting caught in half guard. In a grappling match i doubt the first one wouldve even been scored as a takedown, mir dropped and pulled guard. The second time was off mir's silly flying knee.
His 200 wins as an amature wrestler make him a good wrestler not his victories in the UFC. Ending up in halfguard is not a good takedown? Most people land in full guard when they manage to take someone down Besides in this case i really think the fact that he was in halfguard worked in his favor. He was doing tons of damage to Mir from there and Mir really couldnt do shit about it. Had Brock tried to transition Mir would definately have had a easier time getting out. I really dont think Lesnar will go very long as champion though, his lack of skill in anything but wrestling really makes him vulnerable to mistakes.
His 200 wins as an amature wrestler make him a good wrestler not his victories in the UFC.
Those wins were a long time ago, he's not demonstrating that level of technical skill in his UFC fights.
Most people end up in guard after takedowns because they're up against people of comparatively similar skill in takedowns. The best wrestlers in the ufc dont. You're right, half guard worked in his favor due to his ridiculous size advantage, but it wasnt demonstrating an equal level of technical skill to Mir. Who i'm not really a fan of.
I loved the Mir vs Lesner fight. After watching Mir talk so much bs I knew Lesner was going to own him. He crushed Mir. If you think Lesner punches were not real get in there with him. He busted Mir up real quick. I didn't like how Lenser won though, it would of been nice if there had been more stand up or wrestling. Mir got lucky in the first fight, that Lenser didn't know what the hell he was doing, He busted Mir up bad in the first fight as well.
I loved the Henderson fight, I couldn't believe how hard he hit Bispin, it was awesome especially the flying punch at the end. That was the best fight of the night. I was shocked at how tiny Mir looked besides Lenser. LOL he looked like a wimp. The thing is Mir is no wimp at all. I really want to Randy vs Mir after the BS Mir talked about Randy. Randy put up a better fight hands down against Lesner. For those that didn't like Henderson punching Bispin in the mouth and shutting it up for awhile, I guess they must be English or something. Bispin had that coming.
I thought the GSP fight was boring. I thought Alves would do better, I guess that just means GSP is pretty badass. Yeah he told his corner he injured his groin, his corner told him forget about it... I was like WTF, how do you forget about it. LOL
I didn't mind Lesners antics, I'm sure his wife did, she didn't look to pleased. LOL
SupRor I know what your saying, but Mir couldn't do jack shit against Lenser, Lensner pinned him down and smashed his face in. It wasn't a nice and pretty fight at all but he busted Mir up until he couldn't defend himself in the second round. The ref gave Mir plenty of time too.
Lenser is an awesome wrestler, I was hoping he was going to pick up Mir a few times and slam him like Matt Huges used to do. He just took the easy way out, Mir couldn't stop his quick take downs so he did that and smashed his face in.
Dude did you see the Mir Nogueira fight? Mir is hardly puny, Lensar is just a super sized ogre that's all. The freaking gloves are custom made for him, he is huge. He probably eats babies for breakfast.
You don't get to be called an all american unless you are an awesom wrestler. I don't think lesner has much competition in the UFC at the moment. I think some heavy weights from WEC might kick his ass, but he reminds me of Tyson, all he he needs to do is hit you a few times and then you are out. The big difference with Lesner is he is so far bigger than the rest, but Tyson was short.
Replies
wish the heavyweight fight had gone the other way...
....oh well now they just need to sign Fedor to clean things up
i think the whole elbow thing to bisping was probably overkill, but now he'll always have a nice reminder of getting his face crushed into the ground after talking a bunch of trash about a guy who hasn't KO anyone in the past 5 years. Glad dan got a nice knockout finally.
I was always a hughes fan so once he started to decline I thought i could jump over to gsp... but he's just not that interesting to watch.
Loved the Henderson fight, so happy he won in that fashion.
Swinging your fist from your elbow down is not a punch -- nobody in a fair weight match should be able to win with blows like that. He did not move in Mir's guard, he did not succeed in taking side control in any takedowns, he got rocked by a much smaller man standing up. He laid on top of him, too scared of mir repossessing full guard to move, and tapped his physically implausible fists against mir with no more force than he'd swat a fly with until he eventually got the win.
He demonstrated no skill and no class. The moment a fighter near his size with any technical ability gets near him he's done. Hell, mir even beat him before, he hasnt got much in the means of grappling if he slips up and fails his crazy bear hug groundfighting.
adendum: this is a real sport, playing a heel > professionalism?
As for henderson, the win was completely legit. It's how the sport works, and these are the best fighters in america, they know what can happen if they don't defend themselves. Plus it isn't like standing over a guy who just fell down and not doing anything is awfully safe anyway, to my knowledge UFC allows upward kicks from the ground to a standing opponent, which are incredibly physically dangerous, and naturally leglocks -- which are an awful lot worse to get subjected to than an armbar or a choke, the margin of error between 'this hurts i should tap' and 'i'm not walking for six months' is hair thin.
But regardless he beat up Mir. He got the W because he used what he has - brute strength and weight. There's no "well you didn't fight correctly so you didn't earn the win" bullshit. That's why I love this sport, lots of different ways to succeed. That's all there is to it, imo.
Lesner is a dick. Oh well. He uses what he has size and brute strength. Why knock him for that and to say that those punches of his don't deliver much force maybe you should rewatch the damn fight and see just how jacked up Mirs face is.
I'm with Jesse. I'm not sure which fight was watched, but there was no way Mir had the upperhand at any point in that fight. I almost wish he had of, it would have taken that fight to 11. No skill? Laugh out loud. Don't forget, Lesnar was also a national wrestling champion before going to the WWE. The dude knows his way around a body. The whole point of the ground game is to ensure your opponent cannot get the offensive while ensuring you're doing some damage on the way. Lesnar pretty well did that 100% of the time, didn't he? Ya, no skill. He had Mir wasting energy while taking punches from Lesnar's masonry-bricks (fists) for the entire first round. It was as if Mir never trained! Then, of course, the second round.
It certainly reads as though I'm a Lesnar fan-boy. I certainly enjoy his fights, but I'm not about to get him tattoo'd on my bicep. I suppose I am just trying to say the fight was a lot more one-sided than the Mir fellas are making it out to be and that Lesnar certainly has some skill. I would love to see someone else his size, speed, and skill set join UFC. It'd be like watching 2 rhino's fight.
Lesnar's, at least, apologized for his douchery during UFC 100:
[ame]
Bisping being knocked-out was just awesome. Hendo's follow-up, while unnecessary, was legit and added to the "HOLY SHIT" factor of the knock-out. Maybe Mario should be faster on his toe's and get to the winner faster after an obvious knock-out?
GSP vs. Alves was, well, boring. GSP dominated but it wasn't very entertaining. Take-down after take-down after take-down... Zz...
I wish they showed more of the earlier undercard matches, though. I wanted to see where all that blood came from.
Oh and the leaping elbow smash to the face = pure win!
GSP Alves was boring, I gotta agree. I expect a lot more from GSP. I'm a huge fan, and think he could have done a better. I don't know, I just really wanted to see more. Maybe he thought Alves was too much of a threat on his feet, and didn't wanna take the chance? Smart fight, but pretty dull.
Mir Lesnar was pretty lame. I won't say Lesnar CAN'T fight, he tore Heath Herring apart, and that guys no slouch. But to lay on top of a guy and not move, not try to get a better position, just throw punches (Those things WERE heavy punches, like it or not), is just boring. It showed his fear of Mir, at least that's what I think.
And his antics after the fight were completely ridiculous. I saw the apology vid, adam provided, but you can totally tell he was put up to that apology, Forced, weak, lame. just like Lesnar's personality.
But UFC was a GREAT time. I'm not like those sports fans that cry when their local team loses, or whatever. Frank Mir got beat, fair and square, it sucks, but that's the sport. Anyone can be beat at any given time, which is one reason it makes it a great sport. (Not suggestion anyone here is crying over Mir, just an example of how weird I think those guys are, who flip out, and get all weepy when they're home town, football/baseball/hockey/tennis/whatever team lost.)
I did really think Frank Mir might have won again. Brock has some crazy retard strength though.
Not exactly. The point of the groundgame is dominating space... Which i'll admit lesnar did, to a degree, by pure size alone. However, on the offense controlling space means
-> neutralizing opponent's guard
(lesnar avoided guard with his takedowns; expected from a wrestler of his caliber)
-> avoiding getting roped into half guard
(lesnar could not prevent mir from repossessing or catching half guard every time they hit the ground -- not too surprising considering mir's jiujitsu experience, so not exactly bad for lesnar)
-> PASSING half guard, establishing side control, working torward a submission or mount for g&p
(THIS is where lesnar showed no skill. You have to create a little space in order to pass ((OR to posture up and start delivering strong blows)), and every time lesnar tried/let go of his retard strength head control on mir he quickly started to lose ground and re-smothered mir before he got pulled into his guard. This wasnt exactly horrible grappling, he was successfully stalling from a grappling perspective, but he showed absolutely no ability to upgrade his position.)
The strikes he delivered were completely awful. Now, i'm not calling him stupid for that -- obviously lesnar knows his own strength, and knows completely awful, no posture, elbow swing strikes are more than enough to injure a puny mortal sized man like mir, but acting like he dominated is ridiculous. He won in a way no smaller fighter could, relying on his brute strength to make an awkward, stalling top half-guard pin into a winning position.
To summarize
He showed no movement in the ground, his only control was from a kinda sloppy neck crank, he got rocked during the one standup trade at the start of the second round, and his takedowns weren't even that good (mir always caught half guard) and he didn't throw a single good g&p strike until mir was pretty much already obliterated by his weak, but more than strong enough considering his massive size advantage, elbow swinging punches.
TKfrog, if this were no weightclass no holds barred original UFC i'd agree with you, but considering this is supposedly legitimate MMA, it's pretty disappointing to see a fight go like that. It was not a competition of skill, it was a demonstration that they need a super heavyweight class.
"FUCK BUD LIGHT THEY DONT PAY ME SHIT, IMMA DRINK ME A COORS"
Was a sweet ass set of fights, some ass kicking, some tech, pretty well rounded destruction. Brock's WWE shit was obnoxious though, its why i can tolerate UFC. Not tapping gloves at the start of a fight? Seriously? Unless there was some other shit going on (mir did look a little banged up from somethin), its lame.
its not about personalities and rivals, its just guys who are really good at beating the shit out of people going against eachother. Hope they put him in his place, and someone comes in to destroy DonkeyKong (though, Mir may be the closest thing to a Mario!)
I'm kinda sorta okay with most of your bitching here, Lesnar's hardly a technical master, but "puny mortal?" Gimme a break. Frank Mir is 6'3", and he weighed in at 245. Lesnar only has him by 20 pounds, which is the same weight range as the Light Heavyweight division, and no one complains that the Light Heavyweight class is unfair to the 186lb fighters. Mir wasn't facing some unfair fight against the Incredible Hulk - he faced a stronger wrestler and let the wrestler take him to the mat. If a fighter can't stay on his feet against Lesnar or can't disrupt Lesnar's game plan, he's going to lose.
Fedor is shorter and lighter than Frank Mir. Does anyone think he'll let Lesnar climb all over him and ride him into the mat?
I'll concede, frank mir definitely failed to capitalize on the two openings he created on the ground. His lacking skill with takedowns compared to lesnar was definitely apparent, and yeah, Fedor's mastery of clinch and takedowns is precisely what Mir was lacking.
One can definitely fight on the ground with lesnar, though. He's showed again and again he doesnt know a thing to do aside from pin a guy down (seeing as he couldnt even safely pass half guard with mir's head controlled.) Mir's problem was more cockiness (flying knee, diving for the sweep/reversal off the first takedown when he should have just tried to get guard) than letting lesnar take him down.
I've got to argue with you on the weigh ins, though -- the actual size and weight disparity between the two of them is much bigger than that. Cutting weight is allowed within the UFC rules, and lesnar, likely after his long career in wrestling, is obviously very good at cutting weight. He's nowhere near mir's size, and yet squeaks into the same weightclass. However, if there was a heavier class, he'd be fighting in it -- there's no reason guys of his scale should cut down to UFC heavyweight. It just dumbs down the competition..
Could a more skillful fighter (or perhaps more appropriately skilled, abetter wrestler, judoka, or sambo competitor) stop Lesnar even with the size disparity? Sure. Is lesnar an interesting or legitimate contribution to Mixed Martial arts as a sport, and does he display any talent or technicality? Hell no, and so i'm already more than a little bored of him as heavyweight champion.
And somehow this surprises people?
Carwin and Lesnar have fairly equal wrestling and the size difference isnt huge, Carwin is a much better striker and i think he will have good enough wrestling to keep it on the feet.
A guy of that size has got to have a cardio weakness, can he keep up that pace for 3-5 rounds? He looked a little tired in his fight with that 1 huge punch, I can't remember who it was but it was lesnars 2nd fight in the ufc I think.
Bisping... well I don't like the guy, something about him, and that was quite the knock out.
GSP? boring, sure, only because his fight plan worked well. When a plan is perfectly executed, it will seem very boring, especially in martial arts (or combat). If anyone who has studied an art can probably agree, when you do a technique well, it seems rather effortless and boring, and for onlookers, it will look like magic at first, but then people get used to it and the wow factor is not as strong. GSP is in there to win fights, that's his goal, not to come out beat up because he wants to entertain the crowd.
I'd like to see him gain the weight to jump into anderson silva's class ... that would be an awesome fight. But GSP is a smart guy, very calculating, if he has confidence he can put on that much weight and still fight effectively, that will be an amazing fight, otherwise.
The fitch fight was boring as hell, I would've liked to have seen a bloody undercard as well.
Henderson Bisping was pretty good all the way through too. Amazing finish. Totally within the rules. The ref was running in after the first hit, but he was behind henderson so couldn't stop it so easily. You always see guys go in for the second hits because you never know if they are truly out in that split second, why take the chance.
You guys are wasting time and energy hating on Lesnar. I don't like him, sure, but I don't see why people get such a bug up their ass. It's all fun and entertainment. I figured Lesnar would win. Even with no skill someone like him would be a wildcard, but he does have some skill and definitely dominated the match.
Complaining about his size advantage is also a waste. We've all heard the same arguments in the past. Remember Tim Sylvia? Same exact thing. It's obviously not going to stop or go away. Some other giant will be there to fill in.
There are points for aggression, if you are not advancing position on the ground you are just not gaining points, there's nothing wrong with it. No one should be forced to fight the way anyone else wants them to. If you can sustain with the position you have, why give the opponent an opportunity to slip out? It's up to the ref to stand them up if it gets too stagnant. Lesnar is still not as bad as "Floor and Bore" Rashad Evans' first 15 or so fights, but Rashad is pretty well rounded and fun to watch now.
Lesnar is still very inexperienced in the octagon. With time I can see him improving his abilities, look how far he has already come from his embarrassing first fight where all he did was throw his weight and hammerfist like a mad dog.
Just enjoy. I love seeing Lesnar's stupid antics. I can't wait for the day when he does a suplex.:)
Mir was pretty much out after the 2nd hit. I think that's the first time I've seen someone knocked out with short punches like that from within guard. I don't really like Mir or Lesnar either way so I wasn't pissed to see Lesnar win. He's in a completely different discussion than Tim Sylvia. Lesnar has a great wrestling game, and Sylvia only held the title due to size and piss poor competition in the HW division.
Happy to see GSP and Fitch win.
I actually like Bisping and Henderson, so I didn't care either way. I would've liked to see Bisping put up a better fight, but hopefully he learns from this. Henderson is really the first top guy he's faced, except for maybe Rashad.
Good card overall I thought.
By the time UFC bought out pride, Wandelei Silva was done. CroCop pretty much ended his career with his trademark kick in the Open Weight GP.
So by the time Wanderlei came to the UFC, no one really got to see the unbeatable Wanderlei from 5 years ago.
Really hope we don't get some older washed up glass jawwed injury prone Fedor when the UFC finally brings him over.
But seeing how he beat the 7'0 Hong Man Choi, I don't think any kind of size advantage really plays into Fedor's gameplan. He would destroy Lesnar.
Why was it apparent to me and everybody else watching the fight that circling left into Hendos right hand was possibly a bad idea? I thought Bisping was some kind of master tactitian?!? Hendo stalked him like a predator and finished in the most devasting way.
That last elbow drop to the face was totally uncalled for though. I don't care if it's in the rules or not. Hitting a person in that way when they can't defend themselves is fucked up.
Brock Lesnar was a big dickhead too. Mir stood there after the fight with his face smashed to a bloody pulp and Lesnar was still screaming at him like he'd bummed his favourite dog or something. You can't argue with Lesnar's power though. A fight with Fedor is would be amazing.
Those wins were a long time ago, he's not demonstrating that level of technical skill in his UFC fights.
Most people end up in guard after takedowns because they're up against people of comparatively similar skill in takedowns. The best wrestlers in the ufc dont. You're right, half guard worked in his favor due to his ridiculous size advantage, but it wasnt demonstrating an equal level of technical skill to Mir. Who i'm not really a fan of.
I loved the Henderson fight, I couldn't believe how hard he hit Bispin, it was awesome especially the flying punch at the end. That was the best fight of the night. I was shocked at how tiny Mir looked besides Lenser. LOL he looked like a wimp. The thing is Mir is no wimp at all. I really want to Randy vs Mir after the BS Mir talked about Randy. Randy put up a better fight hands down against Lesner. For those that didn't like Henderson punching Bispin in the mouth and shutting it up for awhile, I guess they must be English or something. Bispin had that coming.
I thought the GSP fight was boring. I thought Alves would do better, I guess that just means GSP is pretty badass. Yeah he told his corner he injured his groin, his corner told him forget about it... I was like WTF, how do you forget about it. LOL
I didn't mind Lesners antics, I'm sure his wife did, she didn't look to pleased. LOL
SupRor I know what your saying, but Mir couldn't do jack shit against Lenser, Lensner pinned him down and smashed his face in. It wasn't a nice and pretty fight at all but he busted Mir up until he couldn't defend himself in the second round. The ref gave Mir plenty of time too.
Lenser is an awesome wrestler, I was hoping he was going to pick up Mir a few times and slam him like Matt Huges used to do. He just took the easy way out, Mir couldn't stop his quick take downs so he did that and smashed his face in.
Dude did you see the Mir Nogueira fight? Mir is hardly puny, Lensar is just a super sized ogre that's all. The freaking gloves are custom made for him, he is huge. He probably eats babies for breakfast.
You don't get to be called an all american unless you are an awesom wrestler. I don't think lesner has much competition in the UFC at the moment. I think some heavy weights from WEC might kick his ass, but he reminds me of Tyson, all he he needs to do is hit you a few times and then you are out. The big difference with Lesner is he is so far bigger than the rest, but Tyson was short.