"Use Pivot Point Center" in Maya equivalent

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Hi I'm stuck with maya again. Looked everywhere but cant find how you set the pivot options in maya for the following:

I have lots of separate boxes each with a face selected. I want to scale them at the same time BUT with each box using its own pivot so that the all scale in on themselves and not towards one pivot shared by all.

In max I would just change the pivot drop down to "Use Pivot Point Center" but in maya I cant find an option to do this in the tool options for scale.

Any help would be appreciated, as always....

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  • claydough
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    in the scale tool options:
    "Component use Object Pivot" check box to on
  • pixeldamage
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    Hi Claydough

    I tried that actually as it was what sounded most likely but it doesnt actually work for me. When ticked the pivot moves to the grid origin and all faces on the boxes scale wildly left or right rather than off their own pivot
  • claydough
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    yer right
    they are scaling to each of their objects center.
    Which would be fine if u had a script that adjusted objects' pivot to component selection. ( and optimally reset pivot after such edit )

    need one? ( an object pivot to component selection scale context ):)
  • pixeldamage
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    yes please! weird that its not a built in ability. I mean I use it ALL the time in max as otherwise I would have to scale the face on one block, look at the value in the channel box and then do the same to every block one by one.
  • claydough
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  • kodde
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this what you are looking for? I'm using Maya 2009 vanilla, no modifications at all.

    [ame]
  • claydough
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    it only seems to behave because of the simplicity of the cube's shape.
    The cubes are scaling to the individual object center not individual components selection center.
  • kodde
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    Ahhh, gotcha. Deceiving little cubes!

    Well in all honesty the feature does what it implies on doing, uses the OBJECT as the pivot and not the selected component averaged pivot. I can see how this would be useful.
  • Mark Dygert
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    Yes please that would be a great script to have! I miss the use selection pivot center also.

    Us Max to Maya guys struggle with the pivot system, its getting better, since 2008 you can align the pivot to the face normal which is almost like using the local pivot in max.

    You should pass the script along to Autodesk so it gets included! I'd love to have it further integrated then what you can do with Mel... well I should wait and see what you do with Mel =P
  • cptincognito
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    LocalTools mel script

    This isn't exactly what you're looking for, but it's neat, and might be a good starting point for writing a script that batches this to a set of objects.

    Coming from modo, I'd love to see a mel script that completely replicates the 'action centers' functionality. In fact, I might be willing to drop modo entirely, now that 2009 has started to integrate Nex style selection.
  • pixeldamage
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    I just went through the issue with my boss on the phone and we solved the issue with separate cubes but the difference i just found with my problem is that the cubes (though separate cubes not connected are part of the same mesh) have been combined.
  • claydough
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    ouch, polySeperate else,
    adjusted object pivots can't help.

    How did yer boss solve the problem with the seperate objects? Please share so i can stop coding:)
  • pixeldamage
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    Sorry wasn't clear.... HE DIDNT. I got off the phone thinking we'd cracked it then went back to my actual geometry and found i was stumpted.
  • pixeldamage
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    Sorry i get confused with the way posts are listed on here... kinda back to front to my brain. I just saw Kodde's video and YES that's exactly it... for some reason clicking the same component origin pivot button on mine doesn't solve the issue ... it just moves the pivot to the origin of the axis and scales like it did before i press the button.
  • claydough
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    That would probably mean that your object's pivots are located at the origin of the grid.
    That is the problem with the option ( u have to "manually" set the objects pivots to behave as expected )
  • Guriamo
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    whenever i needed to scale different parts on various objects like that, i just created a vertex cluster for each piece and scaled the cluster... it works but it can be a bit tedious when you use it often.
  • claydough
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    /*
    cly_discretePivot.mel v.0.1
    Roger Klado was here
    because no one else will do it fer me
    june 10, 2009 ( boy oh boy )
    [EMAIL="RogerKlado@gmail.com"]RogerKlado@gmail.com[/EMAIL] ( Klado/Claydough/cly_  )
    discrete component pivot on multiple objects using the scale or rotate tool
     Usage:
     make component selections and apply this script "cly_discretePivot" to 
     scale and rotate independently  with multiple objects component selections.
     Requirements:
      assumes polygon mesh
      requires the scale or rotate tool
      assumes pivot is to be returned to initial state ( reset ) when the selection focus changes
    */
    

    download

    works on multiple objects

    on a single object...
    Guriamo deformer solution automated like above might be nice.
    needed?

    bound to be issues. please post em.
  • Juju
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    Howdy,

    I think Ive found a way round your prob.

    STEP ONE: Select all the boxes.
    STEP TWO: Mesh > Combine.
    STEP THREE: Select all the faces you want to scale.
    STEP FOUR: Edit Mes > Transform Component.
    STEP FIVE: Scale em!!
    STEP SIX: Mesh > Seperate.

    Hope it works!

    ~J~
  • Mark Dygert
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    Juju, That is very destructive and requires resetting of the pivots after.

    Clay, thanks buddy! I'll give it a spin when I get home tonight! /crosses fingers
    Also going to give the script that cptincognito linked to a try.

    The pivot system (or lack there of) in maya is one of the last hurdles that drives me bonkers.
  • Juju
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    Destructive? Just go to modify > center pivot or make a shelf button. One click BOOM.
  • Mark Dygert
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    Right, boom there goes each objects history and any custom pivot placement they might have had.

    If I had the pivots for each object set to places other then center? Where is the one click button to move them back? For example I have tank treads with the pivot set to the pin joint not the objects center.

    Combining and breaking apart objects just to get a shared pivot point is needlessly tedious and yes, destructive. I could be using the history stacks in each object, Doesn't combining and splitting them off again destroy their individual history?

    It's easier to have a button that enables a shared selection pivot center point, temporarily, without destruction or tedious steps. It's one of those things you don't know how useful it is until you use it. Sure there are ways to brute force butcher your way around it but in this case its something Maya lacks that Max has. It's simple, clean and very fast. They're getting there, and they've improved the pivot system a tiny bit in 2008 but they have a way to go.

    I know I just stirred up a sh!t storm of controversy by saying Maya lacks something... Feel free to flame me in PM but it would be awesome if we could keep the Max/Maya debate out of this thread.
  • Juju
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    First of all, I didn't reply to start a flame war, between Maya and Max, I replied to help out with a solution I thought would help.

    I've used Max for 9 years and Maya for 8, and while I prefer one workflow over another, I'll always try and find a solution in whatever package I'm working in. Just because one package doesnt have a button for moving a pivot isn't a reason for a wall of text.

    The solution I offered was based on the problem I was posed with. There are more ways to skin a cat, if the mel script works, it's all good.

    ~j~

    *edit* Kodde's video actually worked but pixeldamage didn't realise it immediately. Everyone wins.
  • Mark Dygert
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    I wasn't accusing you of flaming nor was I flaming you, just trying to keep the thread tidy and concise and avoid a derailing.

    Wall o' text was to explain how the pivot system as it is desired to work, and how the one button fix isn't always going to get people what they need.

    And Kodde's example only appears to look like it is working because of the simplicity and arrangement of the scene, read Clay's post right under the video example. We're after a common pivot point based on the center of the currently selected objects or faces.

    This pivot is not a fixed point, it finds the center of the selection. Kodde's video looks like it works because the new object center is close to where a center of the selection would be. If he selected only two faces or moved the objects pivot, it would still transform around the objects pivot not a common selection center for each selection.
  • Juju
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    I read Clays post. However pixeldamage was the one we were trying to help and it appears as if his problem is solved. Case closed.
  • Mark Dygert
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    Umm no it wasn't solved. He asked for a pivot point based on the center of selection.

    What he got was: "merge all your objects destructively and if your selection center happens to line up with the objects pivot your problem is solved, if not move your objects pivot to roughly the center of the selection".

    The behavior he and other max users like myself are looking for, does not exist in maya that I know of. Except possibly for clay's script which I still need to try out later tonight. I'm glad Clay understood the problem and jumped in. Otherwise we'd have more "yea you don't need that because we never use it"
  • Juju
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    @ pixeldamage: I think the video might only work for Maya 2009 I use 8.5 at work so it didnt work for me either. If the script works for you, cool.

    If not, and it doesn't matter that your pivot points are not in the centre of the object then try my method, that should work alright.

    If u need to quickly move pivot points back into place again just hold "d" and "v" , "c" or " x" and MMB to snap to a vert, edge or grid respectively.

    I tried the max way but got the same results as Maya, that said I only have Max 9 at work too!! Anyway hope I helped in some way.

    ~j~


    @ Vig: I suppose in the long run I want...ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
  • Mark Dygert
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    It behaves on each objects pivot not the selection center. Ideally it would be nice to not have to move the pivot around and guess, or set up a system of helpers just to store pivot point positions. But those are good suggestions.
  • claydough
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    for the second problem pixelDamage alluded to earlier:
    ( seperate areas of contiguous components on a single mesh )

    JuJus transform component idea is helpful.
    ( since werking on a single object there is no need for the history destructive combine operation )

    However in both instances ( single mesh or combined multiple meshes ),
    the discrete scale only werks in each selections "local" space.
    ( Assuming pixelDamage was asking for a default scale tool behavior which has no local space )

    You can click on the transform manipulators blue dot fer werld space...
    However when in werld space,
    the transform component node will scale the selections to the combined center instead of individual centers.


    with that said:
    scaling/rotating components "discretly" in "local space" on a "single" mesh,
    will probably provide the most intuitive behavior fer organic modeling using discrete transforms?
    In such cases use the transformComponent in local space mode ( default behavior )


    Edit: coming back to this in Maya 2012 I find the actual results for transformComponent tool to be awful when working on seperate islands of component selections within the same object ( except for local Z translation ).
    I am not sure if local rotate and local scale behaved with usable results in previous versions of Maya? Another solution is needed for such instances ( seperate contiguous islands of components on an object ) Thankfully no one seems to care any more! ( more sleep fo me! :poly142: )
  • claydough
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    fail sort of...

    testing the script,
    with reflection on. The scale/rotate behavior will not be reflected.
    ( the reflected side will scale/rotate to the origin side's adjusted pivot location )

    as is.. for intuitive reflection the mesh would need to be manually mirrored.

    an auto mirror solution ( self pimpage ) :)


    starting to think a deformer based solution might be a nice alternative as well. ( single mesh, mirroring )?
  • pixeldamage
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    I'm using Maya 2009 so its not that. Its really annoying this problem, its such a simple thing to do and in max I just use the "use object pivot point" and its fine. I think Max auto moves the pivot to the centre of the face on the objects in question and perhaps that's the difference with the "component pivot" toggle box. In maya it looks like it uses the individual object pivots but not multiple pivots when more than one is available.

    This might be what people have mentioned already so sorry, just trying to get it right in my head.

    Problem summary: In maya - you have a bunch of separate objects that are all part of the same mesh. You decide to select a face from each object that you want scaled in on itself. You now have the faces selected and scale. Unfortuantely if their pivots were off to begin with there is no way of doing what is required without manually resetting the pivots. In max you would just select "use object pivot point" instead of "use selection center".


    imagex.jpg
  • rebb
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    Try using "Transform Component" from the Shift+RMB Marking Menu. It has Scale-Handles and will scale your faces locally ( the node also has inputs for this ).

    Edit: NM, was already mentioned. Argh ! :)
  • claydough
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    Problem summary: In maya - you have a bunch of separate objects that are all part of the same mesh. You decide to select a face from each object that you want scaled in on itself. You now have the faces selected and scale. Unfortuantely if their pivots were off to begin with there is no way of doing what is required without manually resetting the pivots. In max you would just select "use object pivot point" instead of "use selection center".

    edit: ahhh I missed "combined" in yer example..

    umm... don't do that. ( joking )

    do the mesh have to be combined? If you use the script.
    It will actually behave correctly on a combined mesh like in yer example.
    ( The object pivot will be centered to the selections )

    For what you want, a mesh would have to be able to have multiple pivots.

    With multiple components selected...
    Does max allow for seperate pivots for every instance of continous selection areas "on a single mesh"?
    That would be very cool!

    Either way this should be easy enuff to write with a deformer solution.
    ( famous last werds )
  • Funky Bunnies
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    i dunno if everyone just skipped over claydough's solution or what. :poly121:

    for many issues this is pretty fantastic, claydough!

    I think you may be trying to get something that will work in all cases, though.
    For me, the biggest issue is scaling from a local pivot on each contiguous selection of faces/edges, moving or rotating from that pivot is hardly necessary for me though it may create interesting effects.


    the clusters solution is great if you don't mind collapsing the history afterwards, but if that doesn't work out maybe you could instead create a context that would scale each group of contiguous components from an averaged center as you drag the manipulator?
    would that be possible? I think that's the main thing people would like. :)
  • Mark Dygert
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    claydough wrote: »
    Does max allow for seperate pivots for every instance of continous selection areas "on a single mesh"?
    That would be very cool!
    3dsmaxOutlineUsePivotCenter.gif
    Yes it does. On a Editable Poly object (or within the Edit Poly modifier) you set the pivot to "use pivot point center" it will scale independent selections around their own pivot center.

    You can also use a edit polygons tool called "outline" to shrink each selection based on its individual boarder.

    Oddly if you select multiple objects and apply a edit poly modifier (each object is retained as separate object but can edit them all together much like maya) it behaves like maya, scaling around a single selection pivot, you can select that pivot by hovering your mouse over each selection group. Outline still works with an instanced modifier like it should and in most cases this is a good way to go.

    It's absolutely retarded that max has three separate modifiers (Editable Poly, Edit Poly, Edit Poly Instanced) that in theory do the same thing but in practicality work differently.
  • claydough
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  • Denyed
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    The script isn't available anymore. Does anyone know how to get the script or is this fixed in any of the new maya versions? I have 2011 now and miss this soo bad from Max!
  • claydough
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    Denyed wrote: »
    The script isn't available anymore. Does anyone know how to get the script or is this fixed in any of the new maya versions? I have 2011 now and miss this soo bad from Max!

    Sorry about that, ( I am in the middle of a domain identity crysis )
    link <--
    My memory foggy? I am not sure if I was supposed to edit this anymore?? Jes message me if there is an issue.
    I am assuming u r referring to the first script? If not this is the other: link <--
  • malcolm
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    In bonus tools there is center pivot to component selection, I use it every 5 seconds. The text on the icon says Mopt
  • claydough
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    Cool, I would use this bonus tool if I wanted a quick way to change an object's pivot based on the current component selection. Thanks Malcom.

    However, for some reason the default behavior of that bonus tool,
    is to disrupt the current component selection and selecting the object instead.
    And even if it was possible to remember the exact components that made up the selections on multiple objects...
    It would not matter because the tool will only apply the component centric pivot to the last object. ( transforming with discrete component centric pivots based on selections across multiple objects being the requested behavior to begin with )

    For interactive modeling the cly_discretePivot.mel script assumes that using such a tool many times for component focused transforms would grow irritating quickly if something as important as the default pivot behavior was destroyed and needed to be manually reset after every use. Therefore the tools previous preferences are always reset to their original values after exiting the selection.

    Tried cly_discretePivot.mel in Maya 2012 and it still seems to work fine.

    On the other hand...
    Mark brought up an interesting concern. With his last post he illustrates 3DS Max's cool ability to center component tweaks even on contiguous islands of component selections within the same object!

    There is no way Maya can do this with the default selection transform tools and components.
    Even with transformComponent edits...
    this can only "sorta work" on transform Components applied to "faces" and then only "local scale" produce usable results. ( and those results are pretty poor! )

    To make edits across multiple objects and with such island of components within the same objects you must use deformers to work in this way.

    Soft Selection deformers work as a fine substitute but can be a hassle to set up if wishing to work interactively with the benefit of the deformer setup transparent to the user.

    ( if anyone is actually interested in such a tool that automates the setup of soft selection/cluster deformers based on discrete islands of selections with independent pivots even within the same object... as much should be easy enuff )
    Actual "soft" fall-off not by default but as an option should be a nice bonus!
    Anyone?
  • malcolm
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    Yep, tried it after I posted. Bonus tool only works on one object at a time so not applicable to help this thread.

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