assault rifle

dolemite

hi,

thanks everyone for the feedback on my last machine gun thread. I think the "too boring" shape comment was correct. I made a new concept and new hi poly assault rifle. I will be using it to generate a normal map.





I made a few silhouettes and settled on this one. I'm planning on adding a strap through the loops on the butt stock. that way it would be slug over the arm, hanging below the armpit for concealment. I'll probably add a strap in the next few days.

EarthQuake

This design works for the side view, but it would be a terrible gun to have in first person, from the back this is almost *entirely* flat.

dolemite

hi thanks for the feedback EQ. I wasn't really trying to make anything for a first person game, but I definately get your point.


The gun I designed was meant to be very boxy like a mac 10. I think on my next gun I will go for a FPS view and concept it with that in mind.

EarthQuake

Cool yeah, just make sure when you're in that concept stage that you do some sketches from perspective, or block out a mockup and paintover it. That really helps.

dolemite

Not nearly done, but well underway. I have some questions about polyflow at this point.

I'm concerned about big weird creases that I seem to get when baking tangent space normal maps with xnormal. It seams that if I optimize the low mesh as much as I like to, I get weird smoothing errors on the final normal map.

So I'm leaving more polies on it right now than I would like to, in the interest of minimizing weird creases.


Does that make sense?

Should I get rid of the seam down the middle? I guess there's no reason to keep it.


I'm going to add more detail for the front grip, sites, etc. And I will bake the sights and magazine separate, IE: I will put them off to the side when baking them, and then move them back to their current positions afterwards.

butt_sahib

"I'm concerned about big weird creases that I seem to get when baking tangent space normal maps with xnormal. It seams that if I optimize the low mesh as much as I like to, I get weird smoothing errors on the final normal map."
From my very limited knowledge, i think that optimising your low in anyway would affect the creases on the normal map,as its the high source from which the normal is baked.
I know which creases your talking about and i think the only way to solve them is to not have them in your high.Once,i baked a high cone with a meshsmooth at 2 iterations and even then the resulting normal map wasnt smooth as a babys butt. What did i do? SMUDGE tool:P
Im sure people here would be of more help :P

I guess the seam in the middle isnt needed,unless your planning to mirror half of the model ofcourse.i say DOWWN WITH THE MIDDLE SEAM! XD

Also,really dont know anythign about guns/rifles so ill have to take your word on teh fact that the gun is flat mostly. Nevertheless,i agree with EQ on adding as much to the silhouette as possible

Great work and good luck

Ninjas

I like the concept. Looking forward to seeing the normals

Rumkugel

did you leave the ejection port open by means?
usually its closed to keep dirt from getting inside the gun and jamming the mechanism.

dolemite

Hey thanks for the feedback.


The bolt is open because the whistle was blown and the shooters are about to go get their targets JK. I'll close it.


I'm thinking now that I may model the Bolt separately. That way it could be animated.


I started baking normal maps last night. Hopefully I will have something to post tonight.


thanks again!

MLinderholm

Errors due in the normal map while baking usually is due to the normals of the low poly, if you have too many sharp angles with soft edges (one smoothingroup in max i guess) you'll end up with a really strange shading in your low poly, which results in some really strange colours/harsh gradients in your normal map, which in turn may result in shading errors in the end result. Post your normal map if it's still giving you problems when u are done baking and it would be easier to see any problems.

cheers

butt_sahib

I have no idea which kind of error dolemite was referring to when he said "creases".
It could be either what i said, or what linderholm said. If its the latter, CHECK THIS OUT
http://www.svartberg.com/tutorials/article_normalmaps/normalmaps.html

polycount wiki three cheers for eric!

dolemite

So I've been baking the normals. For the most part I'm happy with them, except for this really weird problem I'm getting. I'm going to play with the unwrap some more, but nothing I did could get rid of this.



and that makes me a sad panda.

bluekangaroo

might be you just need to manipulate the cage a little more in that area, or you can just paint out the error in photoshop. Whichever way is easier for you

dolemite

thanks for the feedback. Sorry I didn't say thanks in my last post, I was trying to make a quick post before I left for work.


I'm leaning towards painting it out at this point. I'm using Xnormal so there's not really a cage, but i will play with some of the values. I'm about ready to rule out the unwrap, I've unwrapped it several different ways to no avail.


thanks again!

dolemite

hey hey, thanks for all the feedback. I figured it out, my low and hi meshes had a few subtle but significant disagreements.

I had to rush back to work after my lunchtime experiment, will post WIPS tonight.


thanks for kicking that problem around with me!

butt_sahib

glad you found out what the problem was..but DANG that artifact is UGLY lol

dolemite

So here's the latest. I just fit the low mesh closer to the high and it worked. There's still a small problem on one of the ridges on the butt, I'm going to attack that tomorrow.


Max is refusting to display things properly I have to reload the entire scene every time I make a change in order to see what has happened. No biggie I guess.


thanks for the feedback!

Rumkugel

the screws made me giggle a bit, especially the one above the magazine

usually guns aren´t screwed together (well just those places that arent meant to be stripped) but held together by bolts which you can take out easily and strip the rifle.

i know its a style thing but hey... im a gun nut XD

dolemite

I was going off of things like this that I've seen. I believe many of the screws are much shorter and stubby in length than they seem. You may be onto something with the mag, but the Beretta actually has 2 screws going through the handle, where the magazine is fed. I think the reason this is possible, is because the screws are very short. Just long enough to hold the face plate on.

I don't know... I think I'm going to have to stand by them.

SomberResplendence

I have just a quick response. Where is the trigger? :P

Pope Adam

Rumkugel wrote: »

the screws made me giggle a bit, especially the one above the magazine

usually guns aren´t screwed together (well just those places that arent meant to be stripped) but held together by bolts which you can take out easily and strip the rifle.

i know its a style thing but hey... im a gun nut XD

I think what he was trying to point out is that the screw above the clip would intersect any bullet that passed into the firing chamber, completely blocking the ammo from entering.

Bolts on guns tend to penetrate entirely through it, and also tend to be only in key areas that hold the housing together.

keep in mind that guns are full of inner working parts and a bolt penetrating the center of it would clog up the inner machinery.

Looks cool, for sure, but it kinda takes away the illusion of believability.

Harry

Putting aside the fact that his concept as a whole isn't entirely well thought out,

Pope Adam wrote: »

Bolts on guns tend to penetrate entirely through it, and also tend to be only in key areas that hold the housing together.

You might be talking about pins and stuff which hammers/triggers/sears/retarders pivot upon, but as far as i can see this guy just put a screw there.

BrodyB

SomberResplendence wrote: »

I have just a quick response. Where is the trigger? :P

... ... oh wow, you're right. :poly122:

dolemite

doah..... no trigger.

Harry

if you want any uh.... "Advanced" tips on weapon design, let me know. I could help you design one that would be buildable in reality.

dolemite

actually, I'll take you up on that. I really liked this design but if people aren't digging it I'll just ditch it and move on.

Was kind of hung up on a object space normal maps problem anyway. So while I'm trying to sort that out I'll go back to the drawing board. no sense polishing a turd.

I'll probably start a new thread later this week with a new weapon. I've been contemplating a flame thrower.

Mark Dygert

EarthQuake wrote: »

This design works for the side view, but it would be a terrible gun to have in first person, from the back this is almost *entirely* flat.

Agreed, x100.

Harry

dolemite wrote: »

actually, I'll take you up on that. I really liked this design but if people aren't digging it I'll just ditch it and move on.

Was kind of hung up on a object space normal maps problem anyway. So while I'm trying to sort that out I'll go back to the drawing board. no sense polishing a turd.

I'll probably start a new thread later this week with a new weapon. I've been contemplating a flame thrower.

you cant really go wrong with a flamethrower, those things are little more than a tube with some tanks.

rooster

hm i doubt thats how valve saw it