The Outskirts - Level

JasonLavoie

Hey all.

I started a thread not to long ago about the level I was working on, but the idea completely changed since it was a bit to ambitious for the time i was given (school project) so I've changed it just a bit.



So this is what I have so far, basically (for the most part) it is all fleshed out. This is my first level so I don't really know how to take proper screenshots to show important points (or layout) so hopefully these are fine for now.

I'm planning on getting this completely done within the month, hopefully having it ready for the Dig London Dev Conference at the end of November. I'll have more updates soon, but if you see anything or have any ideas, please share

EvilPixills

Looks like a pretty soild start man. Is this in the unreal 3 engine? Would be cool to see a top overview of the map so we could get a better idea of the size. Keep up the good work looking forward to future updates.

svcoyle

Looks pretty cool thus far. My only question is what looks like a building next to the bridge. It seems like an odd place for a building like that.

indian_boy

yea agree with svcoyle...

seems either like a prison or a appt. building to me
not a guard house if thats wat its meant to be

nice work though
i likes it

cholden

I like how your image breaks the format of this forum causing me to scroll horizontally to read anything you say. ZING!

It's actually pretty cool, good luck texturing that road to devastation

pliang

Looks pretty immaculate, just that the buildings looks like a mine shaft of some sort, clutter will make this fun to look at.

JasonLavoie

Ha ha thanks all for ze crits.

The map itself is based around the idea of a new "ice age" (how original, I know). So basically think of Lost Planet... I wanted to have it so this was probably a populated city at one point, but now snow and shit has covered everything, and of course the bridges have broken and fallen... and maybe even moved over the years, hence the bridge being right near a building (not a guard house)... but it is used as some sort of sniper point.

The mine shaft... or just tunnel in general was created after all the destruction has occurred, used for easier transportation I guess (more so just trying to break things up, giving the opposing force multiply ways to reach their destination).

I do it only for you Chris, I know how much you enjoy it :P

Hey pliang, I defiantly agree... looks a bit plain at the moment. I still have some small pieces to put in (broken rubble... maybe even some oil drums... *yawn) but I think it'll look a bit more interesting once I actually get some weather effects in there. This map is taken place during a huge blizzard (keeps on snowing and snowing) so that MAY help... least i'll get to practice some particle effects along with weather volumes.

I'm gonna get started texturing on this quite soon, just need to finish up the inside of the building. I'll work on some high poly as well, but I don't know if I have enough time to go full blast on everything (trying to get this done before the end of November) so we'll see what happens... all I know is I want the textures to look purty :P

Thanks again all.

butt_sahib

looks great as always
Lookoign forward to textures

renderhjs

I like the direction,- way to go- though the blurrs are bit overused imo.

JasonLavoie

Took me while to find this dusty thread, sorry for the lack of updates all, busy busy.



I wish I had more eye candy but I've been busy fixing up some models as well as getting the bot pathing / kismet shit sorted out. That is finally done (for the most part) and now its full tilt on the art, my goal is to be finished this (for now) by the end of this week, since i have Dig to go to next week.

Again all, sorry for the lack of updates, school has been crazy busy as I've hit the last 3 weeks, so of course everything is due.

Moar updates coming soon.

Joao Sapiro

whoa i like the mood !!!! i can actually feel cold just by looking at it man, imagine this with wooshing wind sounds and some distance fog, perfect man .

JohnnyRaptor

hmm, not a level pro but i think the texture and lighting choice doesnt make your level justice, makes it look quite flat from the screenshot.

odium

Biggest issue is texture scale, looking at it, I'm not sure how large that area should be. Its nly when you check the original pics you see that the textures are scaled way to large. Shrink them down.

Also, the atmospere is quite lacking. Granted you got a post process colour filter there, but a hint of fog surrounding by larger, blended flares around light sources, will really help to sell the scene.

Snipergen

Looks pretty open, sniperparadise, but it depends on the game, if it's for an FPS, this isn't a great level I think, add height difference, obstacles... just suggestions here . You said you want to finish a map in a month, that would be mighty impressive but possible I suppose if you're not making everything from scratch.
I personally think you overdid the blur, I don't know if that's an ingame screenshot but tone it down and use fog, since it's snowing.
Odium has some good ideas too, just make sure your textures visibly tile too much, I hate that

Apart from that, I like where this is going. Keep up the good work!

HonkyPunch

The depth of field makes me think of a tabletop board game for some reason

SHEPEIRO

^^agr3e

Needles

Dof with a tight camera Fov does seem to give renders that tabletop, toy look

renderhjs

lens blur is just like the lens flare filter in PS,- if its overused and to obvious it becomes ugly, and it is overused here

JasonLavoie

Alritghy, DOF will be somewhat nuked and replaced with some fog volumes.

Odium, should it look more like this (This is from your project Overdose) - http://www.teamblurgames.com/overdose/media/levels/odmp1_2_large.jpg

That defiantly gives it a much better feel of snow blowing / in the air etc. so I will defiantly try and go for that.

As for lighting, I just placed some in to get a sense of colour mostly, the lighting will be somewhat last to make sure it looks right. Right now I'm just busting my ass on getting textures in place, as well as finishing up some smaller models.

The project was for level design, but my main goal was to make it look good, somewhat like a scene instead of an actual level... it does play, and I have to make it work some because of school, but I am defiantly not a level designer, and i really don't have an urge to become one. I love working WITH level designers, but for me to do it all by myself is something I just don't enjoy. I checked out your work Snipergen and it was awesome man, thanks for the great crits. Also, all models / textures are created by me except the Skydome (i'll get to that) and the snow materials, which I'll get to as well.

Thanks Johny, I gotta say man you've been there for while now pushing me to become a better artist, and I'm trying. I don't feel like I'm even close really, but I just wanted to let you know that your constant inspiration man, so thanks.

And again, I'm trying to get this ready as soon as possible to get a an ok portfolio ready for Dig Conference, I don't know what to expect when I go, I don't even know if companies will be looking for new hires, but I figured if I have more real environment work, it may make me look a bit better.

Thanks again everyone for the comments, I'll be using them to hopefully make this look better.

duxun

would like to see a screenie shot from the ground looking at the environment. it's still kick ass man want to see more!

claydough

Nice work Jason, great snowy night color.. I feel cold just looking at it.
Maybe u could dress it up with some small orange glowy heat sources for contrast?
( small and lonely far off heat sources to make yer night colors even colder? )


Absolutely love love love the tabletop intamacy of the depth of Field.

Is it fair to call a certain "degree" of DOF blur "obvious"?
How do you overuse "Focal interest"?

You can't. It's a convention that describes interest center. A cinematic way to direct the viewers eye.
Maybe what comes accross as "ugly" is the relative newness of the effect( in realtime application ) that makes it seem obvious.
And as in film, there is usually at first a knee-jerk reaction to...

( I recognise it [ morph.. dissolve... jump-cut... bleach bypass... etc ] therefore I have the right to dismiss it )

However, if you hold yer breath long enuff those things jes become tools. The langauge/convention.

( dissolves are no longer considered obvious and tacky in film. Jes a way to signify the passage of time.
The morph in Titanic doesn't even register as a morph by the audience [ jes a controlled dissolve - which is really all that it is ] ).

The quality of dof in real time application?
I guess were not quite there yet. That might go a long way in making even the most shallow focus transparent.

Till then, hold yer breath. great werk!

Joao Sapiro

w t f ?

JasonLavoie

Brain...tingles :P

I'm working on some lights sources from barrels with fire in them (it's lonely out there ya know) so hopefully that may create some more warmth. As for say a "city" glow in the background, everything is pretty much buried, but I'll see what I can cook up.

One thing i wanted to ask is what does this reference to "Dof with a tight camera Fov does seem to give renders that tabletop, toy look", is that a good thing? I'll be changing the DOF big time, I really liked the... "glow" it kinda gave, to me it beefs it up a bit, but by looking at other examples, seems like the fog volume would do much more for this setting.

ImSlightlyBored

it depends
do you want the map/project to feel smaller, or bigger? i personally like it, aesthetically, but it has more validity in RTS games over FPS ones, imo.

it gives it the small scale look because it resembles macro photography, btw. consider LBP with it- itd fit great.
looks good so far, what about boosting blues in post processing, either highs or shadows?
edit- oh maybe you have already, on second thought. but, you can `thicken` the air in post pro by brightening the shadows; DMHeatray in UT3 uses some nice settings to look at, i think (the level at night, with trains.)

JasonLavoie

Thanks for clearing that up Alex, hows the job hunting going?

I did go for FPS feel because thats what the project was all about, but my scaling is fubar right now, something I'll fix. Again, I really didn't think anyone would play this, this is more for just creating something bigger then 1 prop, but if my scaling feels off then I definatly have to address that.

As for boosting the blues, I did do both in highs and shadows, I find if I touch the shadows too much it darkens it, or you really don't see a difference. As of right now the shadows are dark with a tint of a pinkish - red I think (if i remember correctly).

I have 2 lights so far in my scene lighting it (directional) which is a blue and a purple (i thought they were pretty cold colours) and the whole idea was to try and still create some beauty in such a destroyed world. I mean looking at your work Alex ,really shows some of the style I would love to hit as I learn more, you use GREAT colours in your lighting, gives it such a "vibrant" feel to it.

Now I really haven't focused to much on the lighting, so hopefully in the coming days it'll start looking better, hopefully I can pick Razorb's head and get some tips.

Thanks again.

EDIT: Thanks Duxon for clearing what LBP means, duh :P

duxun

LBP= little big planet.

JasonLavoie

Alritghty so I'm gonna stop playing with the DOF and what not for a bit, but here is what I have with the HeightFog and less DOF, is it looking any better renderhjs?

More updates tomorrow, sleep now

Neox

it's still looking miniature, just because of all that dof

rooster

yep.. my advice would be look for a photo or some type of ref that has effects/atmosphere similar to what you're trying to achieve, you might get there faster if you have a goal rather than trying lots of different settings

JasonLavoie

Alritghty rooster, that's defiantly good advice. I'll gather up some photo reference today and see what I can get.

Thanks Neox, I gotta get a hold of this DOF.

carlo_c

I think it's maybe because we don't really associate pictures of landscapes with lots of DOF.

Look at most of the landscape photos out there, or ones you've taken. Most of the shot is in focus because we like to look at the landscape itself. There's aerial perspective though, which is what you really need to capture to get the idea of a large place.

I found this image which hopefully helps what I'm trying to explain


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_perspective

Hope it helps, this could be an awesome scene

Edit: btw the falling snow looks great, how did you you go about creating it if you don't mind me asking?

JasonLavoie

Thanks Carl, I'm gonna try with little to no DOF, i just personally like how it adds some "girth" to the scene (in my opinion though).

Right now that is actually Unreal's rain static mesh and I applied a snow material to it.

Basically the way they did their snow texture (from what I have gathered so far) is they used a panning tileable texture which uses a Depth Node that uses RGB to calculate (I think) opacity, (therefore faking depth) so it looks like ones are closer, and ones are further away (check out your picture to see what I'm talking about).

It is incredible simple to do and creates some good falling snow I think. I'll be messing with my own pretty soon, but I just wanted to see what falling snow looks like in the level.

Thanks Carl for the help.

Also... question to those who are familiar with the UE3 engine, how many uv channels can 1 static mesh have, I'm thinking it's 2, but it would be kinda nice to know if I can get more (don't know how efficient that is though).

Thanks

gamedev

Also... question to those who are familiar with the UE3 engine, how many uv channels can 1 static mesh have, I'm thinking it's 2, but it would be kinda nice to know if I can get more (don't know how efficient that is though).

You can have more than 2. Not sure if there is a hard limit or not. Though for most objects, 2 uv channels (assuming the use of a lightmap) should be more than enough. There is the rare occasion of using a 3rd UV channel for grunge textures, decals, or other misc uses. The lower the better.

JasonLavoie

Well here was my issue, I have a building that has an inside and an outside. At first I just made it so that when i combined everything it each had its own uv channel, but when I exported it into unreal, it only saw 1 uv channel.

I may just have to suck it up and bring it in as pieces and try to position them correctly, shouldn't be too hard, just more of a pain then anything.

Thanks though.

PixelMasher

if you are using max just leave a uvw unwrap modifer for each channel in the stack when you export, Im not to sure about maya....

JasonLavoie

Who wants maya to incorporate Modifiers in their next release... I DO!

For now I've imported the building as pieces, i'll try out some different ways in the future and see what I can get.

Thanks pixel.

carlo_c

As long as all the building pieces have the same origin shouldn't be a probem lining them up, just a case of snapping to the same grid point.

gamedev

I may just have to suck it up and bring it in as pieces and try to position them correctly, shouldn't be too hard, just more of a pain then anything.

yea, I'd say if you can, model things to the grid. Then when using them in engine, you won't have to worry about seams and lining things up. They will just snap together nicely.

EarthQuake

yeah, dof makes it look teeny-tiny

Mark Dygert

Yep, and the high RTS style camera angle is kind of towering over the scene as well.

ImSlightlyBored

no further comments on your work but since your recent UV channel question I found this:
http://www.hourences.com/book/tutorialsue3modeling1.htm
I never checked that page at hourences myself (which is weird as its like a shrine to me) but it just popped up for me, and thought it might help you as well. Says virtually unlimited UV channels available, but again, the more, the non-merrier.

I know most of it is pretty basic stuff but again its stuff I'd skimmed past in the past and it just came to mind

JasonLavoie

For some reason I thought I had checked Hourences before Thanks a lot alex.

Because i've broken them up into pieces its ok now, 2 uv channels for each piece so I know it'll work fine. I really wanna try and get that multi-uv channel to work (more then 2) but I'll have to wait until later.

Just got over a big hump of school work due, and I promise to post more updates tomorrow, as I'll be working on this all night and tomorrow (plus the weekend).

butt_sahib

LET SEE SOME SCREENS ALREADY @_@

JasonLavoie

I know butt i know :P



Nothing much but I figure it'll hold some people off until then.

JasonLavoie

Hey all.

Well for those who knew, I just attended the Dig London Game Dev conference, and it was absolutely incredible. Definatly A LOT more people then I thought would attend, but it was still very intimate. Had a chance to meet some people from Digital Extremes, Silicon Knights, Ubisoft, and Frozen North, and the panels were fantastic.

After the first day we (me and some buddies from school) went to a bar, and it was FULL of all these developers that I look up to, and it was SOO intimidating (I was a foot away from Jade Raymond... ) It was incredible...

But... sadly I kinda fucked up because I was so intimidated, I didn't get to talk to some of the main people I wanted to (Denis Dyack) and I'm kicking myself in the butt for that, but I also didn't know what to expect. So next time I will take what i've learnt from this experience, and really put myself out there. We did have a chance to have a very good talk with Sheldan (producer... art director) of Digital Extremes, and that guy had a lot of great information and tips to share, really talented guy.

Anyways, I had an awesome time, and here is some of the things I had shown (Level wise) Sadly I didn't finish it up completely, but this was the hardest I've worked on something, and really somewhat proved to myself that I can be faster then what I original presumed of myself... push push push!

GeneralAtrox

I wish i could do that kind of work

It looks great!

Razorb

wow u really kickin some ass with this dude! where was my updates on msn biaaatch! heh keep it up this is gunna be killer

Harryscary276

This looks awsome man, would love to see the texture map and wiremesh when your done,

Overall debrie dispertion is nice, but I want to say that maybe the overcast should be a little more darker to reflect that size of a storm, to much blue in the sky, but that could just be me

JasonLavoie

Yuh, i didn't get enough time to put in the new skybox (most of the minor stuff was at the bottom of my list sadly) but that'll go in for the end of this week.

I'll be posting up a demo reel soon (of the level) and then I'll call it quits. It was fun, but now I just wanna take what I've learnt and go onto something new.

Thanks

JasonLavoie

Hey all, just reviving this old thread one last time to say I've updated my website, you can check it at:

www.JasonLavoie.net

It would be cool to hear what you think, I'm still working on selecting some more items to show, but I rather just create some new material. Is less or more better in this case?

Ged

cool little website,neat design. Id like to see some more colourful or stylised work in there as this level looks fantastic but its got a fairly limited colour scheme, maybe thats just me though.