House please crit. {7 images x 1024}
polycounter lvl 10
Hello there~
Just finished the textures on this house I build a while ago. Let me know what you think, I could you some crits. The front wall is pretty obnoxious now that I look at it, ill fix that.
Just finished the textures on this house I build a while ago. Let me know what you think, I could you some crits. The front wall is pretty obnoxious now that I look at it, ill fix that.
Replies
Where were you thinking of taking this piece? I'd love to see some foliage later on with this scene too. This is good stuff.
lighting! I know its nothing to do with your model really, but it makes a lot of difference to presentation.
Does it have normals and spec map? I have a feeling it doesnt. These could really remove the flatness, and a spec map alone would do alot of that. Is it for real time?
UV's are pretty good generally, but now and again you havent filled in blank areas that could have been filled (though I'm always guilty of that, it seems to just creep up)
Yeah you need to fix up the front wall density as you note, bricks are too small.
Everything seems pretty uniquely unwrapped, could you perhaps bake the AO in to that instead of rendering with it? if its meant to be realtime that is... and 7x1024 diffuse sits a little funny with me. I know itd be a pain to cram it all in to one map now, but for future reference, id have tried to fit it on one sheet (and for something like this, a 2048 would/should be enough.) But again, that might not be such an issue if its not for real time.
The steps could use some love, instead of overlaying the cracks all over, maybe just crack the edges, and focused on the middle of the tread, where people walk?
The building style looks pretty cool, and the textures that you have made do, in fact, look quite good, however I think you could have gotten just as good of a look with less texture size.
take a look at this thread about modular buildings, it has some good information on using tileable textures:
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=55797
overall, your art looks great, but waste is a thief.
Crits:
- The lighting in coming off as pretty flat and washed out, which is in conflict with the lighting of the photo-sourced materials.
If you took the grudge out of the textures the house would be brand new. Not much about the underlying model says its derelict. Some FFD details, and some decrepit cuts/slices will help things along. Try to put some hints that the building itself is actually sad without beating people over the head with it.I meant 7 images in the post itself, the model has 4 x 1024 images...
No there are no specular maps, each has a bump map though. But I think the Skylight with MR rendering eliminates a lot of that bump without being really close up.
There are no AO maps, I tried to paint the shadow into the diffuse textures using opacity brush work. I wanted to get all the materials into a single object and then do an AO map for the whole thing on top of that. Im going to try that now I think
i like the style you picked, that's really cool.
that ambient occlusion you've got baked in is great, it's really helping things.
it's really creative.. i like the broken gate
on to the constructive shit.
everything looks tacked on. you could fix this issue if you put grunge around the windows and stuff like that.
I dont like the textural detail you have on there. i know this is always a painful crit to recieve, but it's lazy and random. you just slapped a texture overlay on this bad boy and hoped that it would do the job.. "cement is cracked right? i'll just stick this sucker on there." i would personally be a lot more selective in terms of where you put your detail. detail tells a story. if it's there it needs to say something specific, or not be there at all. cartoony art therefore, isn't about a lack of detail, it's about less, but still just as specific detail. restrict your range to what you want (cartoony --> realistic) and then have everything make sense.
the pixel density of the roof is quite a bit more blurry than the rest of the building.
some stain drippage might work wonders undernieth the overhangs.
those front pillars are too plain, they need embossing or something on them.
i agree about the texture sizes... with the detail you have on this, a lot of it could be cleverly tiled.
those bricks on the front gate are way too small IMO.
I like these crits the best, they really hit home, and they do it in a funny way... I will work on this a lot, also I should study all the intricate uses of tiling textures. If anyone reading this has a must read on tiling textures please let me know in this thread or PM me.
Thanks for the crits everyone, I read them all, over and over and try to let it sink in constructively.
http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=53002
Ideally, this would be on a sheet of trim textures, I put this into a blank 512x512.
here's how I applied it to the model, see how I've offset the UVs to make the texture look more random on the model? I did the texture really fast so it does repeat more than it should but hopefully this should give you a general idea.
there's some stretching, I probably should of gave more leeway in the texture, curved stairs can be a bit tricky.
http://www.game-artist.net/forums/support/182-step-step-techniques-tiling-textures-3ds-max.html
at any rate I was wondering about the AO bake. As you can see I have 4 textures at 1024. Windows, Molding Accents, Main House, Gate/Fence.
Is the practice for AO to combine all these objects into one object with each texture map on seperate channels. Then make a new channel flatten mapping of the whole house, then AO bake onto that final map channel of all the objects combined? I guess from there I could also RTT all the diffuse textures onto a Flatten mapping say like 2048 or whatever but with the same flat mapping as the AO and combine them in photoshop?
Is this correct?
In general my main crit is the same as what the others have said - it has been 100% uniquely unwrapped when it would probably have been faster and more optimal to use tiling textures and a few decals or couple of unique textures.
With regards to your AO bake on a 2nd channel, yes this is how games usually do it (tiling textures in UV channel 1, unique auto-unwrap in channel 2 for occlusion or lighting bake). However you should not be combining these in Photoshop or baking them to a new texture, since that defeats the purpose of using this method in the first place. The way it's usually done is by using a special shader to "multiply" the AO map onto the textures at run-time. You can fake this in 3dsmax by using a Mix or Blend map in your material (or Multiply in Maya).
The design and model of the house is definitely cool, but the texture work is a bit heavy-handed and monotonous, and could certainly be more optimised.
Keep it up!
There's no need to talk down to someone who's obviously just finding their feet in game art and doesn't know all the tricks of the trade.
We're supposed to be here to help people learn this stuff, not berate them for not knowing everything right off the bat.
plus, ive seen EQ with bake on super sculpy ridiculously plastered all over his painted cheeks, so its all fair...
Anyway, I wrote up a bit about uvs and texturing and some theory stuff for my failed modular contest entry, there may be some useful bits in it here; http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=54178
As per EQ et all:
now the real estate for this is 1 x 1024 and 1 x 512, EQ i like that ivy software, its dloaded on my desktop thanks fo rthat link!
As per MoP:
The AO I baked went like this: blend and mix are really shitty and since im on an on-board video card right now, can use FX or any shaders. But, i found that insteaad of mixing a number amount, if I use that 3rd map slot they provide with the diffuse map, only a lot more saturated and dark, it seems to act more like an overlay or slight multiply, rather than 20% of 1 80% of the other, which sux...
As per Justin:
Changed the stairs to wooden using the technique you taught me. Thanks for that, really blew my mind.
As per John Warner:
Changed roof pixel density. Added front pillar overlay emboss, added stained drips, as for the whipped up slapped on overlays, i tried to hold back more. Lemme know if you think its more decent now.
As per Vig:
Grime flowing from piece to piece seems hard when coupled with using tiling textures. Ill get it soon i hope. Lighting, ya I want to do a beauty shot but isnt it more clear what I am doing with the textures when I give this MR skylight render? Im more looking to show what im doing than giving the perfect mood...
heres the updates:
Thanks everyone for your comments, I think its better now and definitely more efficient!
As for the grime, now that you're doing it in tiles it does get a lot trickier, but not impossible. Its a good idea to leave leave the grime that will be repeated often out of the diffuse. Instead do a few grime/slime trails on a strip a lot like the stairs technique, and have these map(s) on opacity, and apply them to planes that hover over your geometry. Kind of the same idea for plants, but used for grime, cracks posters, wires bla bla bla...
Most of the major game engines support "decals" which is a slightly different technique to do the same thing. The opacity mapped planes are also used but sometimes flicker or Z-Fight.
Since the scene isn't really modular you can going back in and cutting/slicing the geometry in a few segments then apply FFD (Free Form Deformation) this will give you a control cage you can use to twist and manipulate your objects giving them a bit of personality. I don't suggest taking things as far as I did in this example but a little FFD could be very helpful in setting mood and adding to the overall decrepit look.
The great thing about it being a modifier is that you can copy and paste the cage to other objects. It is also non destructive, you can also delete the FFD modifier and the object jumps back to its original shape, making it easy to unwrap and tweak.
Suggestions:
- How do you get up on the roof/balcony?
- What can you put up there?
- Rooftop garden that died or gone wild?
- What about stove pipes or vents?
- Possibly extend the top floor past the flat roof/balcony and put a door or window? Good chance to make a modular door or window.
I put a slight FFD box on it and tried to give it a look like the foundation is slipping, thanks for the idea Vig! Then I used some opacity vector painting to give the yard some life. I also spent a few hours practicng with that that plugin EQ posted earlier on. In fact Guruware made a plug-in that goes right into max! woot. so I put some ivy in. I didnt work to the degree EQ did on his, but I hope to soon, especially learning that normal max creation with the solid positive and negative lights... looks handy!
Thanks again everyone, you helped a ton! I would appreciate more comments but I will use the suggestions on my next concept most likely im gonna leave this one now.
wow, thats the best crit I've ever seen. layed out like a tutorial and everything. where were you when I was making my house?!
You definitely body-slammed me on the eave work, I knew in the back of my mind while I was running through all the great suggestions that this had been missed... You nailed my grunge-moss-stamp-fest too. Thanks for pointing that out so I dont try to get away with it again. lol.
I did change the roof, but I think it continues to have similar problems, perhaps not as prevalent? that eave on the small front roof in the front shot below though, ... haha. ok i will remember all this, thanks KillingPeople I really appreciate it!