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Xnormal - AO not matching Normal

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Davision3D polycounter
As you can see here my renderd Ambient Occlusion texture is not entirely matching my normal:
normalAO.jpg
(The AO is just mutltiplied on the normal to show it)

I renderd both textures with the same settings in xnormal. I used a cage for the rendering that i also have edited in max. It seems randomly where the AO is not matching the normal, it looks all very strange to me!
Any suggestions, ideas a greatly appreciated.

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  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    try the same without cage, if it persists then dont know what to recomend :S its weird infact yeah :S
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 17
    yeah ive had this bug, only way to fix it is by not using a cage, think its a known bug.
    render it out with different ray length values if your having issues with capturing the wrong bts of the HP, pain in the ass
  • Davision3D
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    Davision3D polycounter
    Yeah, without the cage it worked fine! But i really need that cage, have also put a lot of time in it.

    I will fix that AO map in PS, have allready fixed my normal in ps and makeing it all over again with even more to fix in the normal sounds horrible to me.
  • EarthQuake
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    easy thing to do is just render out a map with low ray distance, and a map with high ray distance, and then composite them together. I never really use a cage for much of anything =)
  • Michael Knubben
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    I really should try that sometime, I find myself spending a lot of time on tweaking my cage sometimes
  • Davision3D
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    Davision3D polycounter
    Yeah, thats a cool workaround Earthquake! But what about warped lines on zylinder stuff?
  • jogshy
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    jogshy polycounter lvl 17
    Hmmm , strange, I need to see what's happening then.
    A question... do you computed the AO using the Simple GPU tool... or did you use the software path?
  • Davision3D
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    Davision3D polycounter
    I have no idea what you talking about!? :D
    I pretty much changed no settings. I used the 3.15.3.8179 version, probably should have tryed the new version but i guess it wouldnt make a difference in this case?
    thx for looking into it
  • A-Train
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    A-Train polycounter lvl 15
    EarthQuake wrote: »
    easy thing to do is just render out a map with low ray distance, and a map with high ray distance, and then composite them together. I never really use a cage for much of anything =)

    EQ: Great tip! I'm going to try that now. I'm baking AO's with xnormal (just started using it today) What values are you using for your low and high ray distances?

    Btw do you find it to be a large time saver over having to use the projection cage modifier in max? I find it sucks a lot of time out of my work flow...then again i'm running a P4 :( arrr

    Jogshy: Is there an option in your software that bakes out the alpha channel as well? I use it for
    quick selections in PS often (all the time). :)
  • Eric Chadwick
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    A-Train, for selections (and better UV wires) try PSDPathUnwrapper.
  • jogshy
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    jogshy polycounter lvl 17
    A-Train wrote: »
    Jogshy: Is there an option in your software that bakes out the alpha channel as well? I use it for
    quick selections in PS often (all the time). :)
    Just select an output image format with alpha support ( TGA, TIFF, etc ).
  • EarthQuake
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    A-Train wrote: »
    EQ: Great tip! I'm going to try that now. I'm baking AO's with xnormal (just started using it today) What values are you using for your low and high ray distances?

    Btw do you find it to be a large time saver over having to use the projection cage modifier in max? I find it sucks a lot of time out of my work flow...then again i'm running a P4 :( arrr

    As far the min and max distances, it usually good just to do a couple quick low-res test bakes, and see what the lowest value you can do is, and also what the highest value you need is. Now its worth mentioning that you'll have to render your AO TWICE, which can really be a huge waste of time. I tend to keep working while rendering anyway(set xnormal priority to low in task manager) so its not a big deal for me.

    But really these days, i do mostly environment type work and props, so i can just explode my meshes and not really have to deal with intersecting problems at all. I go over the exploding proccess here: http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=53731&page=3 and cover some of the AO baking stuff here: http://wiki.polycount.net/Ambient_Occlusion_Map?highlight=%28ambient%29
  • A-Train
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    A-Train polycounter lvl 15
    EQ: Thanks, for the fantastic info! I've actually been going through the process of breaking up (or exploding) the elements. Great to see your process on it, and I'm happy to see the result on your final gun. I've given each of your papers a read. I'll definitely refer back to them if I hit some snags.

    jogshy: I'll give it a shot. Xnormal is a great piece of software. Thanks for your feedback and for creating it! Now...I just have to get the hang of the process :)

    Eric: Looks like a great plugin! Thank you, I'll try it out.

    Damn this forum is good.
  • Davision3D
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    Davision3D polycounter
    any news on the bug yet jogshy?
  • jogshy
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    jogshy polycounter lvl 17
    Davision3D wrote: »
    any news on the bug yet jogshy?
    I tested the software path with the smiley and wall examples and they seem to be well aligned.

    But... if you rendered the AO using the Simple GPU AO tool ( image output, not vcolors ) I bet the misalignment is just because the GPU rasterizes the triangles using a different filling convention than I do... and it's a problem because each graphical API uses a different one ( OpenGL uses one, D3D9 other, D3D10 other, etc...)

    If you want just send me your meshes by email. I'll debug the problem more in depth.
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