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Baking+Smoothing groups, am I doing it right?

polycounter lvl 12
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alexk polycounter lvl 12
Is this the correct method in baking a normal map from highpoly to lowpoly, in regards to smoothing groups?

1) First I attach any floating geo together so I have one solid lowpoly mesh
2) I select the entire LP mesh and "Clear All" from the Polygon: Smoothing Group menu
3) I click the "1" to assign all of it to group one and left the Autosmooth number to the default 45
4) I bake out my normal map

So then after I put my normal map on and I notice that some parts are still showing hard edges. At this point, can I actually adjust the smoothing groups some more? Or am I suppose to increase that 45 degrees to higher and then rebake? I tried setting the value higher than 45 and then clicking "Autosmooth" and it kinda smoothes out the edges some more but then I think it also creates many seperate smoothing groups? I'm a little confused, am I suppose to keep it all in one smooth group in order to be game engine compatible or something?

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  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    As soon as you change any lowpoly smoothing groups, you have changed your vertex normals, which means if your normal-map is tangent space (which it probably will be), then it will no longer match, since the normals are basically offsets from the corresponding lowpoly normal.
    If you change smoothing groups at all, you will need to re-bake any normal maps.

    You do not have to keep everything as a single smoothing group if you don't want. You should avoid the "Auto smooth" button since then you're not really controlling your normals at all. Set everything to one smoothing group, then you can assign some polys to other smoothing groups if you need to split the normals anywhere.
  • Baddcog
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    Baddcog polycounter lvl 9
    Sorry 'bout the hijack but it is slightly relevant since MoP brought up splitting smoothing groups as needed.

    I recently split up smoothing groups on a character (stone gargoyle) that I wanted to be somewhat faceted but not at every poly.
    What I did was select the poly groups in edit mesh, added smooth, picked a new group, collapsed to edit mesh and repaeted for other smooth groups. Is that the way it's supposed to be done? I couldn't figure out how to select seperate polys in the smooth modifier.

    I can start a new thread I guess if this is a bad spot.
  • kary
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    kary polycounter lvl 18
    Editable poly and edit mesh have their own sub tab to set smoothing groups with. You don't need (and have no reason) to apply the modifier to work with smoothing groups.
  • alexk
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    alexk polycounter lvl 12
    @ MOP, thanks that info was what i was looking for
  • Jonathan
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    I think a quick explanation is just to keep smoothing groups local to their UV islands, so if the UVs are broke at an edge/loop, then have the smoothing group broke there as well.
  • EarthQuake
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    Jonathan wrote: »
    I think a quick explanation is just to keep smoothing groups local to their UV islands, so if the UVs are broke at an edge/loop, then have the smoothing group broke there as well.

    What does this really solve? I've run into a lot of cases where i need to break an edge that isnt on the border of the uvs. With any sort of complicated mesh this will likely be the case, unless you're spliting your uvs up when more than you need to.
  • Wendy de Boer
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    Wendy de Boer interpolator
    If you have a smooth group break on an edge but not a UV break, you tend to see a small black seam in the normal there.
  • Jonathan
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    If you have a smooth group break on an edge but not a UV break, you tend to see a small black seam in the normal there.

    Yep. That's what it solves. :)
  • arshlevon
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    arshlevon polycounter lvl 18
    also , you can just bevel the edge instead of going ape shit with smoothing groups, the additional cost is not very much, considering when you make an edge "hard" you are essentially adding duplicate of verts on the hard edge. its not going to tell you in max or maya you have more verts when you make an edge hard, but its going to in the engine.
    and vert count, not polycount is what matters for realtime meshes.
  • Eric Chadwick
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    If the edge already has a UV split, adding a smoothing group split doesn't increase the vertex count. Adding a bevel does.
  • arshlevon
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    arshlevon polycounter lvl 18
    If the edge already has a UV split, adding a smoothing group split doesn't increase the vertex count. Adding a bevel does.

    only if the bevel has uv space. :P

    not that you would ever want to bevel the edge and not give it uv space. :(

    but we still kind of go by this rule at work, bevel the edges instead of making smoothing groups, it just looks better and we haven't come across any instances where it added thousands of polies to the final product.
  • Eric Chadwick
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    True, only an issue if your transform cost is greater than your fill rate, which is a rare problem these days. :)
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