"Avatars" are Microsoft's take on Mii's?
polycounter lvl 17
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2008/06/15/rumor-avatars-are-microsoft-take-on-miis/
what do you guys think? i actually like the idea even though Microsoft ripped it from Nintendo.
what do you guys think? i actually like the idea even though Microsoft ripped it from Nintendo.
Replies
First DOS, then Windows, then the Zune, now this.
Honestly, its not a new concept to social networking, I'm not really sure how Nintendo manged to "trademark" the idea. I guess its like the i-pod, the walkman, and the Zerox copy machine before it. Others can have the same idea but someone is going to take it, run with it and never look back.
MS needs to find their own torch to carry instead of trying to buy swindle and cheat their way to a profit. When you're showing up at the track just as another company is on its last lap its too late to start running, just find another event to excel in.
Oh well one more company to do it and its officially a trend and no longer theft.
Microsoft has tough competition from Sony/Nintendo.. you either adapt or die.
Besides, Microsoft had avatars before the Wii... Gamer profile anyone? Whats that in the corner, oh yeah.. an avatar, just because you can't make it wear a hat, doesn't change what it is.
I can't ever read anything about Microsoft with you coming in and spewing a ton of bullshit. You should just refrain from saying anything Microsoft-related in the future.
(Comic Chat was great. The best IRC plugin ever!)
Armanguy, I take it you are talking from the view point of someone who hasn't played a Wii? I fail to see how it is a gimmick. The controller is integral to nearly all of the games, Mario Galaxy is genius and I wouldn't want to play it any other way... in the same regard as bowling and other sports titles rely on the controller almost 100%. The only point at which it falls on it's arse is conventional gaming, it might be impossible to play GTA4 or Ridge Racer on a Wii mote. But then all you are doing is applying conventional gaming techniques to something that breaks the mold, something that is far from conventional.
That in mind, yes it does get stuck with the rather basic graphics processing ability (more like two game cubes wrestling in mud) and yes, releasing a Wii mote type controller for the xbox would offer up this new type of gaming - but - it would be nothing more than a peripheral, and building games for peripherals is risky business (just ask sega). With the Wii, it's the main controller.
I personally think Mii's are shit. However they really hit the nail on the head for the public at large, I think they captured the hearts of the new demographic of gamers. Mii are somewhat integral to most Wii titles, it's a "ground up" idea.
With Microsofts Avatars, we are once again getting something that is bolted on as an after-thought. Yes they may be more customisable, graphically superior etc. Is that the point though?
Personally I am with sonic. Sure not everything microsoft has done is good, but all the microsoft bashing is getting quite old. And please for the love of god people stop using the "M$" crap.
As for avatar's i'm sorta on the fence right now. I'll wait and see what they have planned and how things will work.
Also remember people that the PS3 has Home, which has avatars also.
oh sorry, I meant to say. XBORX 370 4 liVE YO! HARLOZ!! WEOOT! TOTALLY KNEW IDEA, 100% orig!
Whats wrong with asking an industry leader to lead rather then safely tweak a risky venture thats already proven itself safe.
Can the only thing you do is bitch about people bitching, thats all I seem to see from you lately?
Seriously, if you can't read varying opinions, then don't. If everything I write really is offensive to your delicate sensibilities, then feel free to add me to your ignore list.
I know I'll sleep better at night.
And the tarded flame war starts in 3...2...
Microsoft is an awesome company. They take ideas that people LIKE and they try to IMPROVE them!
Unlike Nintendo, who said, "people like that xbox live thing?! well, they fucking shouldn't! friend codes forever!"
And, "graphics?! who the fuck needs graphics?! no one needs that shit. as long as we can keep mario party 38 and mega sports decathalon: mario edition that'll keep them coming!"
Microsoft looks at the Wii and they think, "well, if people like the Wii motion controls/avatars/simple games, we'll come up with an improved version to make our users happier and capture more gamers."
Get it? That's how companies SHOULD work. Not "fuck you, you're all wrong, here's our ideas and you'll fucking like it!" I wouldn't own a Wii if I didn't play competitive Brawl just because I hate Nintendo. I like many of their games and their systems, but I hate their company and practices. Sakurai wanted to put a chat system, voice support, etc into Brawl. Nintendo said fuck you and told him he couldn't. What a bunch of douches
If you hate the restrictions Nintendo puts on its developers, you should talk to people who work at and for MS. Talk to some of the Bungie guys, talk to just about anyone thats had to deal with MS while trying to retain creative freedom.
I've never seen a bigger middle finger then the one MS gives its devs. You'll take our creative "suggestions" and our "profit sharing" and our limited marketing, and limited distribution and like it or we'll screw you over some more next time around. If you're not a cash cow they can hump into the ground they don't want to hear it. Suck it up, take it in the ass and like it.
Lovely way to do business.
But hey who cares, they can just buy their way out of #2, and if that doesn't work they can just barrow ideas until they have enough cash to do plan A. Because the Yahoo deal went so well for them, we all know its a plan they should stick to. Throw money in a hole and hope it stops being a hole, not something I would ask share holders to sign on to, but its their company they can run it into the ground anyway the see fit.
I'm glad they talked someone into holding the flag up while the ship simultaneously explodes and sinks. You're a trooper for taking the job.
And their games... HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Mario Party EIGHT, the SIXTH Metroid game, the TENTH (or so?) Zelda game, and like the 132981293rd Mario game. Real innovation there. They are recycling their same shit and call it innovation because it uses a controller that IMO doesn't work very well at all.
On the other hand, Microsoft has XBLA, XNA, an online movie/game store, HD movie downloads, free demos over the net, HD output at any resolution without delay, an amazing online system that is tied into EVERY game (not some half assed Mii bullshit), and many options as to what kind of accessories/games you want to play.
People need to listen to this. Seriously, it's annoying as fuck to have to come into any topic concerning anything MS and hear the same recycled bullshit lines spewed out again and again.
As for these avatars... some people may like em, guess they are cool if you're into that kind of stuff. I generally don't pay much attention to the whole make an avatar of yourself kind of thing. Find it kind of silly and dull, but that's just me. If there's demand for it though, I guess why not throw it in. (Is there really demand for it? Do people who have Wii's generally use and care about Mii's?)
Nintendo appealed to a wider audience at a time when the industries growth had started to reach capacity. It had attracted just about everyone it could have, and now, we have more people buying 360 and PS3 games because they've gotten their feet wet and liked it. That in no way hurt the industry the way MS does with its crappy me first business plan.
The idea to blaze ahead and rack up a debt selling hardware hoping to turn a profit was a bad idea that is starting to pan out. Nintendo looked at what they needed to do to turn a profit and stuck to it. They didn't blindly sail ahead and bank on Halo3 saving their ass.
There is something fundamentally wrong with a company who's first approach is to whip out the check book and try to use it as a machete.
You can complain about the 10 zelda game all you want but blast it for whats inside the box, not the title on the outside. The title on the box is something you've seen before but that doesn't mean whats inside is the same. Unlike the hundreds of carbon copy franchise sitting on the shelves in 360 land Nintendo chooses to innovate and tell the story in a new way instead of issuing a reprint.
i didn't mean to make my post seem like i hate Microsoft or anything i actually have no problem with them i was stating even though there all avatars non-the less Nintendo did make a point of make there "Avatars" look like human and customizable. but im all for it i cant wait that and the newton controller that they haven't officially announced yet :P Hopefully they don't charge us for this feature :P but i think they will for extra clothes and accessories :P
I have played the wii on several occasions although very fun i must admit i still think its all a gimmick to get people to buy there system, which is not a bad thing.
Im all for innovation in the industry but don't give me a repackaged gamecube and call it a Wii, but its smart on their part it probably does not cost as much making a wii than it would making a 360 or ps3, At a business standpoint Nintendo is a genius but as a gamer standpoint for me they could of easily made the motion sensor peripheral for the gamecube and really do something new with the Wii but thats just me.
edit: try to keep personal attacks to yourselves , if you have nothing nice to say dont say it at all.
360 wiimote = waste of hardware, gimmick.
The Wii-mote is great in that it IS the controls (take Mario Kart and Wii Sports for instance). Tacking motion sensing tacked on a standard controller is a gimmick. A Wii-mote is a controller.
Oh boohoo.. The Wii doesn't live up to your graphical standards. FPS's don't live up to my standards of story telling and innovation. Doesn't stop me from enjoying them.
Love my 360, but I shake my head for MS implementing these features so late when they will barely be taken advantage of.
I hear they want the xbox360 to last at least 10 years i thinks that plenty of time
That would indeed be nice and breath of fresh air. I hate when a console just starts to be pushed to the limits and a new one comes out.
So of you really need to learn to let each other say their piece without getting all uppity. It's pretty embarrassing when weighing opinions over-takes proper discussion.
Let's get this thread back on topic.
/end nofunnancy.exe
Avatars can be fun. I'm glad Microsoft is trying this direction. I prefer the detail level of these avatars over Nintendo's. I do hope MS's avatars are just as 'customizable' by means of manipulating the orientation of main character features as Nintendo's. I would actually prefer to use my avatar instead of the graphic for my XBL account, if I were given the option to do so.
amen brother!
i would also prefer to put my avatar up instead of those gamer pics.
Errr... story telling? How do FPS's not live up to your standards of storytelling? What does? That statement doesn't make sense. It's like saying "TV Shows don't live up to my standards of comedy".
Some of the best stories in games have been in FPS. Not all FPS's are trying to tell stories, so not all of them have great ones.
So Microsoft has never done anything wholly original? Because you seem to be implying that. The Game industry is founded on plagiarism, the incremental tweaking of a concept into a better concept. Without this, we wouldn't have Half Life and we probably wouldn't have Polycount, because someone else already had plugin player models, "we" can't do it too.
Microsoft has made its fair share of risky ventures, or does noone remember The Zune? Microsoft Bob? Windows Vista. The List goes on, sometimes playing it safe with a tweak to make it more modern, more customizable, less annoying, etc is all the innovation needed to bring life to an already existing concept.
It's called quality control. Less is more, just takes someone with a pair of balls to stand up to "lets cram every feature possible into this" and keep things simple, and integrate it from the start.
Nintendo are still idiots for region locking the Wii though
If Sony or MS had done it first, it would be an "innovation" in their mind. Give it a rest.
So MS is getting Mii's now...no big deal.
The Avatars may be cool, but I'm sure there'll be a fee involved with it also.
So microsoft adds avatars, cool. Mii's are something I've enjoyed a lot on the Wii, but I've really disliked the lack of options with them. I'm sure I will enjoy microsoft's avatar's, but I've got to agree with Notman. If microsoft is charging for simple gamer pics then you can expect them to charge for 3d, customizable, animated avatars.
Now, for myself personally, I feel the only thing making the Wiimote gimmicky are third party titles quick to jump onto the Wii cash cow. However, the companies who are investing the resources to make a game designed for the system primarily are making some wonderful games. It's just a shame that there isn't a lot.
What the xbox has going for it is a very large library of titles and a great online service. What does that mean? Lots of terrible games that are clones, but also lots of games that are great. Still at the end of the day you have choices which is always good.
Right now, I'm enjoying MGS3 on a PS2, Okami on a Wii and GTA4 on my 360. Hopefully sometime in the near future (Xmas maybe) I can enjoy MGS4 on the PS3.
*Hawken - are you sure about that Wii region locking? My mother picked up a Wii while working in China for my father last christmas and we haven't had an issue. That's not to say they didn't sell an American woman returning to the US the proper region system though.
-ps- Less fanboy drivel and more adult discussion please.
exactly...
The Wii has outsold the 360, but not among people who would actually consider themselves "gamers." The Wii's success is due to things like Wii Sports and Mario Party 8.
And I love my DS. The screens aren't gimmicky at all and I think it really is an amazing idea. 10 e-props to Nintendo for that one.
And no, I'd think the same thing if Sony or MS did it. Just because I don't like many things about Nintendo doesn't mean I'm a fanboy of Sony or MS. In fact I'm not a fan of Sony at all.
O_O
Have you seen the mountains of garbage games for the Wii? There are a very very small handful of games besides the very few first party titles that are worth playing. And you're really going to tell me that it takes balls to say, "lets make more money and put less into our system"? Why does it take balls to NOT put in a real online system, an ethernet port, a decent cpu/gpu, more RAM, etc? That's not balls, it's stubbornness.
Maybe looking into why the Wii is a success and why people find the 8th Mario Party fun is something you should do. There are lessons to be learned for sure, even if you hate the look and feel of the controller. Blindly passing it all off as kiddie garbage is only going to weaken your gaming experience as a whole.
Why is the lowpoly thread full of amazing models? Why are people even interested in working with low poly when apps like ZBrush are out there? Should we close the low poly thread because its all low poly garbage?
When I met my wife she had a plaque hanging in the bathroom it was of two kittens looking into a toilet the caption read "lets explore at least we'll find something new". Sure you might find a turd but it might be better then sitting down for the 400th night in a row playing some halo clone, listening to some crack head pump woo-tang into his mic.
No thats the part of the business plan that doesn't use money like propane.
When it comes to returning profit to your share holders its kind of important.
They decided to work on fun instead of pixel shaders.
They found that Sony and MS are going to clobber themselves fighting over "gamers" they already have.
Nintendo looked out and saw a bunch of people who didn't like the "gamer" experience and decided to pull them in and give them something they wanted, and in doing so has helped the industry to be more diverse, creative and actually bolstered the ranks of "gamers". Not bad things.
I guess it depends on how you plan to use it if its really going to be fun for you. If you try and use the Wii like its a 360 its full of fail. If you use it as designed its full of win. Have people coming over, family get together, company lunch? Wii = fun. Solitary multiplayer over the net, 360 rocks. They are different shapes that go in their respective holes, not really to be forced into the others.
Its a small person who wall themselves off to new experiences and different things based on prejudice instead of actual experience. Which is what I see you doing. I suspect your rhetoric is less venomous in real life and I bet you're actually pretty open and might actually give some Wii games a fair shake given the chance.
Windows PC has tons of those too THEREFORR OMG WORST CONSOLE EVERRRR, but is anyone making you buy them and play them with a gun to your head?
gim·mick [gim-ik]
1.an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.
sounds appropriate to me.
Good job on not reading the context and quoting just that sentence. Hawken was saying that Nintendo has quality control compared to Microsoft. Thanks for your worthless input.
I'm sorry, I know one guy who has a Wii and he hasn't touched it since the first day he bought it. I know tons of people who have 360s or PS3s or had a Wii at one point in time.
It's just a stupid argument to say that the Wii is better because it has outsold the 360. That's like saying Britney Spears is better than Killswitch Engage because she sells more albums. Good luck countering that argument.
Sure, Mario Party is great for 20 minutes once every 6 months. I play my 360 many times a week. I know EXACTLY why the Wii is a success: hype. All the non-gamers and gamers are going to buy one because they felt a thrill swinging a tennis racket in Wii sports. If they are a gamer they will move onto playing another system for most of their time, and if they aren't a gamer they will let it sit there and use it occasionally. I don't call that a success in the gaming industry and I'm not a fanboy that licks their nuts because they came up with one new concept for their system.
I think you forget that in the home console market Nintendo lost the "wars" horribly these last two generations. If the Wii was a failure they would be in Sega's position right now. They always push their bullshit on everyone, even when they don't want it (carts, mini DVDs, region locking, etc). They found something gimmicky that they knew would sell well and it worked. If anything, they are much bigger sellouts and douches than Microsoft because they said "fuck you" to much of the audience that has been supporting them for many years and made a casual/non gamer system.
That is such a horrible argument. It's pretty obvious that you can make good quality art with low poly models. But guess what? You can make things look even nicer on current generation hardware. Combine great art assets with newer technology and you have MORE possibilities. Don't try to tell me ANYTHING on the Wii even comes close to GoW, UT3, Mass Effect, etc. Notice how many games on the Wii don't attempt realism? It's because it would look like total garbage when compared to any other system.
Although I appreciate what you're trying to do there, you missed the mark completely. You can't win an argument by spewing out stereotypes. I'm playing through Ninja Gaiden II right now, after that it'll be the Incredible Hulk, and after that it'll be DBZ: Burst Limit. Oh noes, where did all meh Halo clonez go?!?!
My 360 is my hardcore gamer machine. When people come over, even if they have never touched a video game in their life, they want to play Guitar Hero. I've got it on PS2 and 360 (the ps2 version is the same as the Wii). They 100% of the time want to play the 360 version. Know why? It looks nice on my HDTV and it has 5.1 surround sound. Too bad the Wii GH only has mono sound. The only game that is remotely fun in situations like that is Boom Blox. Shit like Wii sports, Wii play, Wario Ware, etc are all stupid gimmicky crap that everyone gets burned out on in under 5 minutes.
I camped out for the Wii for 12 hours. I own a Wii right now. I have like 15 Wii games. I play competitive Brawl. I go to a LAN center all the time here with Wiis and I have probably played 70% of the games that have come out for it. I have more than enough experience with the systems to make a decision.
I'm not saying the Wii is king and the sales numbers prove it. I'm saying that Nintendo found a creative way to turn a profit instead of beating its head on the tech wall until something gave.
When you define success in classic terms, as in who made more money and returned it to their share holders in large quantities, quickly! Then its not a matter of who makes the better music, its a matter of return. A lot of great bands go unnoticed it doesn't mean they failed musically it just means they sucked it up fiscally.
Also because the bubble gum pop queen was a success and brought in cash, other bands with different taste where discovered and published. Again you might not like it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its benefits and contribute to something you do like in a positive way.
I don't understand the all out war on the Wii, it has its place and its benefits. You're right the war is over, Nintendo lost and decided to move on to something else. I hope you realize that and can learn to dial it down a notch.
Mario, with normal maps, frensel falloff and next gen color correction is pointless and counter productive. I'm sure they can add to the graphics in some way with heftier hardware but then it starts to impede cost and profits.
Nintendo's crowd doesn't give a rats ass about pixel shaders and bloom so why bother saddling them with extra cost?
You might not like it, but the mindless rabble that bought a Wii and enjoy it occasionally still enjoy it. Just because they're not on it every night doesn't mean it was a waste.
Yea, I'm done, its like talking to a bowl of pudding.
There's a lot of console warrior shit going on in this thread and I really don't understand why. All the consoles have their ups and downs, the things they do well, and the things they don't. You don't win by arguing that one console is better than the other.
I'm not sure if I'm the black sheep here, but I would love nothing more than to have all of the old nintendo classics done in a grittier realistic direction. If mario could look like this realistic mario rendering floating around I'd be in love.
I'd also love to see both zelda and metroid done with pixel shaders, normal mapping, bloom, the whole shebang!
I still like the Wii and play it often. I also understand Nintendo's business model and strategy. I would have preferred to see a visual upgrade in the realm of xbox to 360 or ps2 to ps3. I would have gladly ate up the cost as well.
my opinion : my wii is collecting dust for a year, mii's are cool, but for like 1 month then you just want to shoot the fuckers
If microsoft or other 10000000 see profit on an idea they wont give a crap about copying something or improving it , it gives profit that is all that matters , if they could shit on people's mouth and it became a trend , it would generate money, so you would see mouth shitter stores with dif flavors and poo shape and all that crap , until the next idea comes.
But then, the mii creator seemed particularly appealing to women.
*looks over at EA, Activision, Nintendo, Sony, Blizzard, Take Two, THQ, etc*
Renovation and recycling looks like it's working to me.
Granted, I always prefer innovation, but innovation is rarely ever good for business.
I honestly think Nintendo's marketing has helped them more than the wiimote alone. I know the marketing got me at first, then i realized how much i dislike the wiimote.
I wouldn't say its healthy for the industry to go long stretches of recycling. Look at the backlash against EA sports? When retailers trade in bins are full of sports titles and many won't take them, its not a sign of health. I guess there might be some profit in it, as they keep churning them out and someone had to buy it at some point.
Its especially not healthy for a company to discourage innovation. I think the key is innovation over revolution?