yeah... having his brows slope up towards the middle makes him look sad. I see nothing of indifference or determination - that would deserve a more straight-across brow.
the large dent separating his shoulder from his bicep is distracting and off putting. needs to be far subtler and sharper, I'd say.
seriously, though, people will look at this and think the hand is on incorrectly. sometimes you have to fudge things so that they look right, regardless of if they are technically perfect.
what are you modelling this in? it seems vastly under-detailed for a hipoly model now-a-days. You say done, but I'd say it's ready for ze mudbutt pass.
BeatKitano's crit was spot on -- check out reference for arms, the rotation is worng.
The anatomy error is forearm twist. The wrist doesn't turn independant of the rest of the arm, so the hand looks like it's on backwards. Forearm is turned as if the hand is palm up, and yet the hand is palm down, which looks pretty painful and grotesque.
Also, remember the triceps. On the side view the arm is caving in on the back, and it shouldn't.
(And it's all modeling, sculpting is just a different technique. )
Man, you have the worst attitude for a new member in months. Beat took the time to try and help, if you spent half as much time actually studying the anatomy as you have writing off valid critiques you'd have this fixed already.
Anyway, it still isn't quite right. The angle of the wrist is unnatural and the musculature is defined in a rather inplausible way. It looks like you just made some cuts to copy is paintover exactly instead of trying to understand the actual forces at play. Since I figure you'll just write ignore my crits, i didn't put too much time into this, but here, maybe this'll make it a bit easier to understand:
Figure out the bones, then the muscles, and then try and remember that people have fat and skin.
Beat's crit was pretty clear. 'the muscles can't be like that' is really decent information to get for free on a public internet forum. He even told you how to solve your problem, once glance at the skeletal structure of the wrist or the musclature of the forearm would show you that the current pose is impossible.
As for ignoring my critiques, it doesn't really bother me. I'm offering you free help, but i'm not going to be deeply wounded if some stranger wants to 3d model guys with dislocated wrists. Whatever makes you happy, man.
This thread is heading for a lock by the looks of things. If you can't take a crit then don't post on polycount. If you want GOOD JOB crits then find another board BUT if you want crits that my tear you down a peg or two and maybe help you learn then you just have to ignore the harsh words and take the crit.
On the flipside sometimes people go to far, then you simply need to ignore them and your thread will stay on track. Post a STFU response and you are going to end up with a derailed, possibly locked thread.
The guys are dead right, the forearms are really off and its something a bit of anatomy reff can really help with. There are loads of awesome sculpts in this section you could look at to help you out.
Keep your cool and try not to let things offend you, most times offence is not inteneded.
Here is what most folks are saying about your forearm issues.
Now if you look at the two bones that make up the forearm, the radius and ulna, they work in a very specific manner. When you hold your wrist palm up, the bones lay side by side. However, when you twist your wrist, the ends of the bones that connect to your wrist move around one another creating an "X" if you will. This twist in the bones is caused by the muscles twisting which in turn are sliding under the skin.
Stand up and point your arm straight to the floor. Turn your arm so that your bicep and palm are facing out, the same way you are facing. Now without moving your upper arm at all turn your wrist to be palm down. Watch your forearm as you do this. You can see how the ends of the radius and ulna that meet your elbow don't really move at all while the ends at the wrist move around one another. You can also see how the muscles "twist" creating the forms that would be more appropriate for your necromancer's hand and arm based on their posture and their relation to one another.
Usually when i see something that has ABSOLUTELY no potential, i don't even try to criticize on what is wrong (and even what is right), i just pass by. And i just do that for one reason: even with le minimal knowledge to model something, if a totaly beginner can't even try to be objective on his work and determine what works and what doesn't, even if he doesn't know why, why should i bother to point that out?
Knowing that, i think you can understand the underlaying meaning that "this is cool but it should much better with that and that..."
If i wanted to assert myself like you think, i would go with the "this sucks big time man, go learn modeling" attitude, which i didn't take since i'm nowhere near good modeling.
Now if you can't take a crit (that is how we call someone coming and saying what don't work) with progress in mind, then it means you post here wanting some "wow awesome" type comment.
I don't think polycount is known for being "the self-congratulation" place in 3d modeling.
May be wrong though, let me know...
srsly though, you should have just rotated the hand.
On a side note, saying something is wrong is criticism. No one is obligated to do paint-overs, break down what's wrong with your work, or provide links. The people that do that aren't criticising you, they're helping you.
Beat told you that the twisting of you forearm was incorrect and to study some anatomy reference to see where the mistake was (in so many words). You need to make the effort to find out how to fix your own work.
if I place my hand like that by my side, my inner elbow begins to twist in towards my body- I can't keep it pointing straight forward like the model has. My elbow ends up almost 90 degrees to the angle in the model
i agree with kp this is rock awesome as is. i've actualy think you've perfected anatomy to a place where real anatomy has not yet reached. i strongly suggest you take this bad boy right now and send it off to some movie/game studios and get your self a phat art dir job.. they would be MAD to say no. it takes a man with reall balls to just completely ignore all signs of intelligence and reason and stick to his guns.. no mater how terrible those guns are.
Wow, so many forearm reference tonight~
Thanks everyone who shared awesome pictures and photos.
Back to OP, knowing and guessing is just between a piece of paper, if your mind is NOT ready to learn. You are here learning through other's opinions as you mentioned, and then try it. Even though some may throw harsh crits (which I haven't noticed), try to learn to stay cool yourself as well. It will help you all at the end...
It is small world, and you never know if your future employers / colleagues would remember who you are.
[ QUOTE ]
Even though some may throw harsh crits (which I haven't noticed)
[/ QUOTE ]
Riiight, and surely there was no disgusting mockery as well in this thread. Some help.
[ QUOTE ]
Good criticism serves one purpose: to give the creator of the work more perspective and help them make their next set of choices. Bad criticism uses the opportunity provided by someone elses work to make the critic feel smart, superior or better about themselves: things that have nothing to do with helping the recipient of the critique
[ QUOTE ]
Riiight, and surely there was no disgusting mockery as well in this thread. Some help.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whut? this was the crit that started the bitching avalanche
"The muscles of his forearms (and even entire arms) can't be like that when twisted. Check some anatomy refs."
you have two choices, run away and join the masses of crybabies that don't know how to take critique or start listening to people.
Replies
Paintover if you don't mind:
the large dent separating his shoulder from his bicep is distracting and off putting. needs to be far subtler and sharper, I'd say.
coming along nicely, though.
THIS IS AN AWESOME PIECE ! WELL DONE, NO CRITS FOR ME !!
KEEP BEING AWESOME MAN !
seriously, though, people will look at this and think the hand is on incorrectly. sometimes you have to fudge things so that they look right, regardless of if they are technically perfect.
what are you modelling this in? it seems vastly under-detailed for a hipoly model now-a-days. You say done, but I'd say it's ready for ze mudbutt pass.
The anatomy error is forearm twist. The wrist doesn't turn independant of the rest of the arm, so the hand looks like it's on backwards. Forearm is turned as if the hand is palm up, and yet the hand is palm down, which looks pretty painful and grotesque.
Also, remember the triceps. On the side view the arm is caving in on the back, and it shouldn't.
(And it's all modeling, sculpting is just a different technique.
Paintover to simplify things:
[/ QUOTE ]
you could change the entire arm or just make the hands face inwards to make the anatomy look right
Anyway, it still isn't quite right. The angle of the wrist is unnatural and the musculature is defined in a rather inplausible way. It looks like you just made some cuts to copy is paintover exactly instead of trying to understand the actual forces at play. Since I figure you'll just write ignore my crits, i didn't put too much time into this, but here, maybe this'll make it a bit easier to understand:
Figure out the bones, then the muscles, and then try and remember that people have fat and skin.
I checked the mirror. Is that a good enough ref ?
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe you have a different mirror than me, but I tried to do the arm pose and it was impossible.
If thats what you really want...fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you serious?
Beat's crit was pretty clear. 'the muscles can't be like that' is really decent information to get for free on a public internet forum. He even told you how to solve your problem, once glance at the skeletal structure of the wrist or the musclature of the forearm would show you that the current pose is impossible.
As for ignoring my critiques, it doesn't really bother me. I'm offering you free help, but i'm not going to be deeply wounded if some stranger wants to 3d model guys with dislocated wrists. Whatever makes you happy, man.
On the flipside sometimes people go to far, then you simply need to ignore them and your thread will stay on track. Post a STFU response and you are going to end up with a derailed, possibly locked thread.
The guys are dead right, the forearms are really off and its something a bit of anatomy reff can really help with. There are loads of awesome sculpts in this section you could look at to help you out.
Keep your cool and try not to let things offend you, most times offence is not inteneded.
Now if you look at the two bones that make up the forearm, the radius and ulna, they work in a very specific manner. When you hold your wrist palm up, the bones lay side by side. However, when you twist your wrist, the ends of the bones that connect to your wrist move around one another creating an "X" if you will. This twist in the bones is caused by the muscles twisting which in turn are sliding under the skin.
Stand up and point your arm straight to the floor. Turn your arm so that your bicep and palm are facing out, the same way you are facing. Now without moving your upper arm at all turn your wrist to be palm down. Watch your forearm as you do this. You can see how the ends of the radius and ulna that meet your elbow don't really move at all while the ends at the wrist move around one another. You can also see how the muscles "twist" creating the forms that would be more appropriate for your necromancer's hand and arm based on their posture and their relation to one another.
Hope that helps.
Knowing that, i think you can understand the underlaying meaning that "this is cool but it should much better with that and that..."
If i wanted to assert myself like you think, i would go with the "this sucks big time man, go learn modeling" attitude, which i didn't take since i'm nowhere near good modeling.
Now if you can't take a crit (that is how we call someone coming and saying what don't work) with progress in mind, then it means you post here wanting some "wow awesome" type comment.
I don't think polycount is known for being "the self-congratulation" place in 3d modeling.
May be wrong though, let me know...
srsly though, you should have just rotated the hand.
On a side note, saying something is wrong is criticism. No one is obligated to do paint-overs, break down what's wrong with your work, or provide links. The people that do that aren't criticising you, they're helping you.
Beat told you that the twisting of you forearm was incorrect and to study some anatomy reference to see where the mistake was (in so many words). You need to make the effort to find out how to fix your own work.
...but that's no reason for me to not post this in a thread.
Thanks everyone who shared awesome pictures and photos.
Back to OP, knowing and guessing is just between a piece of paper, if your mind is NOT ready to learn. You are here learning through other's opinions as you mentioned, and then try it. Even though some may throw harsh crits (which I haven't noticed), try to learn to stay cool yourself as well. It will help you all at the end...
It is small world, and you never know if your future employers / colleagues would remember who you are.
Even though some may throw harsh crits (which I haven't noticed)
[/ QUOTE ]
Riiight, and surely there was no disgusting mockery as well in this thread. Some help.
[ QUOTE ]
Good criticism serves one purpose: to give the creator of the work more perspective and help them make their next set of choices. Bad criticism uses the opportunity provided by someone elses work to make the critic feel smart, superior or better about themselves: things that have nothing to do with helping the recipient of the critique
[/ QUOTE ]
Riiight, and surely there was no disgusting mockery as well in this thread. Some help.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whut? this was the crit that started the bitching avalanche
"The muscles of his forearms (and even entire arms) can't be like that when twisted. Check some anatomy refs."
you have two choices, run away and join the masses of crybabies that don't know how to take critique or start listening to people.