Seforin's Self improving thread(sCulpting/anatomy)

seforin

Ok guys and gals' As I stated earlier I will be doing ALOT of sCulpts these upcoming weeks, because I have a very big challenge to myself. As you can see I really have been trying to learn anatomy and ive tried my damnest to really get good at it. But it seems unless if I actually practice it digitially I just wont get better at it. The reason why im really trying to push myself to the limit is because I want to make this guy.



this guy will be the pinicle character of my reel, and has been a character ive been wanting to make 3d since I first started this whole games field. So as you can see based off the sketches above (not mine before anyone asks) I have alot of sCulpting I need to do for about 80% of the character. between the upper body head and wings.


So Im tired of people telling me my humans never look correct based off details or proportions.

So here I am spending the next few weeks just doing nothing but sCulpting. I want to begin with head studys and work my way down into the forms from there. Until I feel comftorable with one thing I wont budge from it.

So I am here asking you as a community to please help me get good with anatomy and tell me EVERY single FINE point of things that just = fail.


Ok enough giber jabbering

I will post based on day/week for each skulpt, these 2 are a bit old but I will start my thread with them , rore posted some helpful comments about them, but again crits comments are welcomed.


"""October 8th""""



"""October 8th"""



Time : 1 hour heads, top head = 1 1/2 hours, 2nd head = 45 minutes.

joe gracey

In the top pic his ears look squished, the upper part of his nose looks a little flat, and the area below his nose and above his lips looks really flat. It almost makes his lips look like they are sticking out more than they should.

The bottom pic, I think his ears are to high on his head and should be brought down a bit, his eyes look to big for his head and the corners of his mouth seem to indent to much.

Overall much better work than what I could do! Hope I could help you a little, and good luck with your modeling!

Asmuel

Use lots of reference man, reference reference reference, and keep chipping away at it. Maybe you want to try make a likeness of someone else, just so your heading in a realistic direction rather than using your imagination to determine where you are heading. After a while it will come more naturally. They aren't looking too bad anyways, keep going man.

Just my opinion, I could be totally wrong.

almighty_gir

http://www.heads.thnom.com/

is your new bible.

Josh_Singh

seforin

gir, that website is BASE! Thanks man

Josh- I'll remember to add in more penis rockets every time I skulpt :P

almighty_gir

lol seforin, see if you can spot poop :P

Marine

what would be really helpful is if you used a lighter material for the heads, makes them hard to see when you've got a dark grey head against a black to dark grey background

almighty_gir

mop posted a really good material set in my predator thread, the skin material is boss o/

seforin

gir not to sound newbish but how do you add the new shaders to be apart of your set for brush?

almighty_gir

no idea, i have to re-load it every time. go to the material tab - load - choose the material, i use skin_01.

Wells

first step to self improvement: spell sculpt correctly.

looking forward to seeing your progress.

seforin

[ QUOTE ]
first step to self improvement: spell sculpt correctly.

looking forward to seeing your progress.

[/ QUOTE ]

joe gracey

You guys are funny.

Vitor

Well, i think you should focous first on the main shapes of the head, practise with paper and a pencil first too, try to draw a few ones, profiles, front, 3/4 and so on, check with reference... find a good anatomy book on amazon and start studing would be my best advice.

For example this one, if tou compare it to a skull side reference you'd automatically notice the errors:



Also avoid to go that high on the subdivisions before you get a good base shape to continue.

Keep going and good luck, hope to help some.

xysdf

hmm, vitor... me thinks like this (ear):

in general every real head may be off this norm a little bit, but the ear was a bit too much on the wrong place....

i also suggest to draw first! there you will develope your sense of proportion & get some checkpoints later for sculpting. there may be a endless number of checkpoints, noone knows them all, but get at least some of these checkpoints together before you start sculpting. ---> books

ah.... & i have a link:
http://www.anticz.com/heads.htm

good luck

edit: & the eye may also come a bit forward... (in the paintover)

PolyHertz

Josh_Singh: I agree, needs more penis rockets

seforin

I hate you polyhertz....

I will be doing some trainign tommorrow night everyone so I will take all references and considerations everyone has given me into the new skulpt

I do own a number of anatomy books, 2 hogarth books (dynamic anatomy and dynamic figure drawing)

and Atlas of anatomy by fritz (something?) I have one other book but I havent opened mostly just life drawing and bone structures....

I will look more carefully at my references and begin a new skulpt based off all of this tommorrow

thanks everyone


also I will add more penis rocket

seforin

ok was doing some practice with poly hertz tonight

Worked on doing the skull shape more, I think I got it kinda down, still just things here and there need to learn, Did a skulpt on top of that with the skin, didnt dig it to much...still much to learn...





Also the ear was with help so dont count it please

Ruz

seems to me you need a good base head to work off. Its hard for even an experienced artist to do all the forms in zbrush.

your head seems to be just from a sphere or something and the details you are trying to add are looking too 'pinched' as if you don't have the topology to make the shapes you want.
My advice to you is focus on making low poly heads first and get your heads looking cool, before moving on to more advanced stuff .
don't be in such a hurry.
It might take a few years to get where you want to be:)

pior

Also a tip for both lowpoly or highpoly work:

Get yourself a skull mesh from any free 3D resource site and load that underneath the model you are working on. You will learn tons just with something as simple as that. You can't really argue with a 3D scanned skull when it comes to anatomical problems can you?

The nice thing is that as soon as you have a model 'massaged' over a reference skull you will notice how little extra work you need to make the face look alive. Eyeball bulge, ears stiking out, outlines of the nose, fat here and there and voila!

Also even before messing with that make you study anatomy on paper.

Good luck, take your time, hope this helps!

Mark Dygert

Good tip Pior! People do that all the time when working with clay, why I never thought of doing it with digital clay I haven't the foggiest. Seems so common sense, I could kick myself hahaha

PixelGoat

I love you pior, thats the best tip I've ever heard! I have a complete 3dscanned skeleton somewhere... maybe I should use it

seforin

hmm well I do have a medical skeleton mesh in my 3d model vault, Im going to take your advice and do the underlaying skelleton

on the other hand, I have a mesh made some time ago that me and polyhertz dubed' "Gumbi Warrior 4"

Hes just a generic no geometry near block man we use for sculpting purposes, do you think it will be a good idea to use him as well as the skelleton, or should I continue with z-cubes and such for practice sake?

gumbi is all quads by the way

pior

Well Likewise, if you can dig it up I'm interested The 3D skull I use is a mess of automtically reduced polygons. It does the job okay anyways but I would be interested to see a cleaner version (if yours is free obviously). I *know* I will build or sculpt my own one day!

vahl

I think honestly that you shouldn't use zcubes to learn anatomy and even less that basemesh

you should go in your modeling package and model a head loop by loop, using reference planes and pictures

you're definitely not ready to start sculpting directly in zbrush or model without proper support.
Also, stop making 1h heads, won't give you anything, so I know that's a quick exercise, etc but it just end up half assed, just take your time, take 4/5 hours to model (re: NOT SCULPT) a head and post it, get crits and modify the stuff until it's good.
All you're trying to do now is burning steps, you want to build your portfolio for next month apparently, but if you want a decent job, you have to take the time to make something that will actually impress your employer, being fast at doing half assed stuff won't do it, trust me.

EarthQuake

Yeah, listen to vahl. You're nowhere near ready to start sculpting this stuff, you need to have a better understanding of modeling and form first.

seforin

vahl I understand and completely appreciate, but ive been modeling the head in max for some time with old models and honestly I did not learn the form as easily as I have learned it in brush, I understand what you mean by not taking shortcuts around this. So I will stop doing 1 hour busts and take my time. But as far as avoiding brush in general Ive never understood the form as easily as I have here, my goal is just go get the form down and proportions and just look human as oppose to just making heads. Once I can get the forms down strip modeling a head will be 2nd nature (I wont have to sit for a week doing topology to a cheek once I understand the way the face properly flows atleast)

Illusions

[ QUOTE ]
Well Likewise, if you can dig it up I'm interested The 3D skull I use is a mess of automtically reduced polygons. It does the job okay anyways but I would be interested to see a cleaner version (if yours is free obviously). I *know* I will build or sculpt my own one day!

[/ QUOTE ]

Off topic, but how anatomically correct would you guys need the skull to be (like just the basic forms of the cranium and mandible, or include other forms such as the holes etc. for nerves/blood vessels, and the other structures coming off the skull)? I only ask because I have to make one for my Senior Thesis project, and if it would help you guys I'll upload it when I'm done.

ScubaSteve

i have this guy if anyone would like him

snake85027

i want that skeleton porfavor

almighty_gir

me too please :P

Xaltar

Yup and me

Japhir

i'd like it too

ScubaSteve

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OYQNXB83

here is the link for him i use max so he is in max 8 and max 9 file and obj file hope this helps you guys

PolyHertz

Thats actualy a model from one of the 3D world mags from a year or two ago. I grabbed it from the included disc, gave a copy to Seforin, then apparently he gave it to some other people, and now its everywhere

seforin

THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN!


Anyway yea guys im doing more training tommorrow im still just playing around with forms and pieces , poly hertz showed me a few methods that I might be using mainly for the muscle fibers and understanding the muscle flow more easily

for now just gotta keep trucking, I'll post some stuff tommorrow but dont expect miracles

seforin

seems Ive started a internet meme of improving with all the skulls and head meshes floating around now

Anyway so this time with actual resources, a few dummy skulpts ahead of time for practice and actually using anatomy books without stylization (hogarth ones)

I spent the last 2 days just reading practicing and having help from my good buddy polyhertz.

I figured I'll post a mesh im a bit happy with.....the others not so much

:::::october 14:::::



As usual help out and please crit away, this is all for the greater good of improving


EDIT:: ALSO thank you gir for the skulpting materials

Japhir

that is tons better! i like it! the eyebrows could be defined a bit more and also moved up a bit.

seforin

decided to to a bit of touching up, playing around trying to get a idea how to sculpt scars.....not so much how I wish for them to turn out, but still Figured post the progress today

::::OCTOBER 14::::::

Ruz

I would forget about scars for now and just focus on getting the basics right. seems you are kind of ignoring the advice of a lot of people here. build some more details in to your base mesh, you will produce better stuff than you have now. the head is really lumpy. try using the smooth tool occasionally.
when you said you had help, was that advice or did your friend actually do the work?. you aint gonna learn if thats the case

PixelGoat

I'd recommend going into your favored 3d package and practice building some heads there before moving on to sculpting, learn how to place the edgeloops and half the battle is won already.

Joao Sapiro

Agreed about the dgelooping comment, it will actually make you understand why most faces have that kind of edgelooping, hence you will associate it with anatomy.

seforin

im not trying to sound rude but alot of people are recommending to learn edge loops and kinda skip the anatomy part until I get the edge loops going, and I understand thats a big step in the right direction, but It feels if I go with that method im taking 3 steps back because im just ignoring anatomy and just focusing on simple shapes and nice edge flow (which I wont lie IS important) but my goal is to get a understanding using z-brush again and build forms from nothing. Im not trying to be stuborn with anyone on here with advice given, but honestly in the last 2 weeks ive learned alot as oppose with the last 2 years Ive spent building basic max heads, and ive built a number of heads in max and still ive learn the majority of things ive been doing wrong just by sculpting alot of it. If will put people at ease I'll build a new 3d head in max

I already understand you have you loops that follow, eyes, face, cheeks, lower jaw to around the ear etc.

EDIT: also about the having help method, the help im having is outside help based off someone I know who learn alot of his methods via sculpting and just studying anatomy, me and him come from similar backgrounds and is honsetly been the only person to sit down with me and help me as oppose to alot of people who just sent me to online tutorials. So Its kinda in the process of learning and having a mentor at the same time, and its kinda hard to do all sides of the coin when you have some big names on here telling you other methods they recommend (johnny , josh ,ruz, pior etc) So believe me im not trying to igonore anyones advice im just trying to make everyone on the same page is all

Joao Sapiro

hm...by learning proper edgelooping you will learn anatomy, its the best way to study anatomy on a face imo. Its the base of everything , if you dont know the base how can you expect to make something beyond that ?

seforin

hmmm well I was thinking up on my way to work today maybe im going about this the wrong way. I was thinking Im hearing 3 sides to this that I do and do not agree with


Draw
Edge Loop model
Sculpt

so I was figuring I will just suck it up and squeeze in doing all 3 instead of focusing on just 1, So I figured I will toss up sketches done daily/ odd daily, work on a edge loop face, and sculpt on my weekends if time permits.

I still honestly had alot of issues learning my anatomy through edge modeling since it requires a understanding of anatomy and edge loop flow, and honestly I wanted to get the anatomy part down before I got the edge loop thing going. But I figure doing that method above will give me some better results? no?

seforin

oh yea and draw more penis rockets

Wells

I think you might be misunderstanding them. It is not three separate facets [draw, edge loops, sculpting] that you need to be working on, but rather steps that you need to nail before going onto the next one. Working on all three at the same time, as you propose, won't get you where you want to be. Once you get the first step down, it makes the next step a lot easier and more natural, and that makes the next step, etc. It's an exponential growth - only problem is, you have to suck it up and start from the beginning. A lot of people don't like doing that, though - how often do you hear people saying they want to learn how to draw and immediately start trying to draw faces and figures, only to get frustrated because they don't understand the basics.

your last face is a huge improvement over what you had, but it still doesn't really look 'right'. The ingredients are all there, but the proportions and shapes are all off at a fundamental level. If you insist on Sculpting Your Way to a Better Tomorrow, show us the lower levels so we can show you where, exactly, you started to go wrong.

Like I said, it is a big improvement, so the thread is serving its purpose. You can, and will, do whatever you want, but I suggest you listen to those on this board. They're a bunch of badasses.

seforin

hmm well showing off the lower sub d's help because I'll start doing that as well. But yea It wouldnt kill me if I werent juggling so much but you cant improve unless you give it the time no? Sucks unfortanetly

I still like sculpting as my best bet for learning the form, but I will take in the other things as well for practice sake so its forms become easier.

Im trying to make it fair on myself and listen to everyones advice and still apply and stick with the things that have worked best for me so far, and so far drawing and sculpting really helped the last 2 weeks. But I'll do a edge loop face in the next week or so to see if that will improve or not and just work from there

seforin

ok was bad did another sculpt while I was in a class

but did the sub'd's to show off

PixelGoat

Ears are still far to high up on the head and too big.