bellydancer!

dabu

yo yo,

So now that Ive gotten the head nailed down, Im gonna make this a bellydancer. Target final polycount is 5k. Still need to do some final geo tweaks, her head is looking a tad big to me.

Im thinking a 1024 for the body and a 512 for the head, with an additional 512 x 256 for hair and other alpha details.

This will be my first foray into normal maps, so for work flow, do I model, uv, sculpt, and finally paint?

Or do I paint her before I sculpt?

Costume ref below.

C&C most welcome

cheers,

dabu

allyx

As you scuplt you could end up changing the geometry too much in some areas so paint last.

If that is going to be your low poly mesh then you could map the UV now or redo a more optimized mesh after the scuplting then UV mapping and texturing always last. Sometimes I map the UVs before I scuplt in ZBrush and find out later I didn't put enough details in the low poly. I'm still learning.

zenarion

If this is gonna be a belly dancer, you better give the belly more subdividing. Since it is a key-feature in belly dancers. If the lady is going to dance in-game, or whatever, the belly better look good. Its gonna be a pain to rig xD

dabu

hey guys,

This purpose of this model is more to serve as an exercise for learning normal mapping rather than producing a working game asset, though Im sure I would be well served to try to make it as "game ready" as possible. I will probably add another section to the abdomen before taking it into mudbox, but I appreciate the feedback. Still learning how much detail to start with, etc...

UVing now, I find that Im better off texturing because I often tweak UVs during the painting process.

stoofoo

dabudabu. It behooves you to create a base cage to sculpt and the create the high res. After that, create a cage based off the cage. Sculpting packages allow for wonderfully sweeping changes. After you create a low res based off the high res(polyboost for sanity!) unwrap it, then import it back to your sculpting package for the final normal render. it's very easy and honestly is the most forgiving character pipeline.

Husch

Maybe my comment comes a little bit late, but I don´t think that you choose a good reference image for a bellydancer model. don´t want to insult you or the girl on the reference image, but I think a bellydancer should have more female round forms. And the costume could use more intresting details. here are some libks to images I found on google to illustrate what I mean:

http://www.fringetheatreadventures.ca/uploads_2005_festival/belly_dancer.jpg

http://www.belly-dance.org/dancers/sabine-sevan.jpg

http://www.belly-dance.org/dancers/princess-banu.jpg

http://www.marrakechrestaurant.com/pictures/zaheeaarch.jpg

http://aradialv.com/store/images/bellydancer9.jpg

http://www.zenaida.org/pix/gallery/photographs/e1.jpg

Xaltar

Husch has a good point, when you are modeling a concept like this people usually expect the more seriotypical definition. Namely curves and a look of sultry grace. The gracefull look can be done with rigging but the curves need to be in the mesh. Those refs are a good place to start. Keep it up.

dabu

Hey guys, youre right, my ref is kinda boring. But those are her practice clothes. I should have had her wear this:

(same girl, btw)

http://people.tribe.net/katherinesummer/photos/3a4ca590-81b3-4181-821d-6e17d6f6909f

dabu

Are there any links you guys have to proper character pipeline step by steps? Maybe I would be better served to take on something simpler than a human character for learning this stuff.

Psyk0

Something like stoofoo said...

Start with a basemesh, sculpt it in mud, import it back in 3d app, rebuild topo on top, uv, bake normal map.

or

Build the actual game mesh, UV, sculpt in mud, bake normal map. Of course you might need to make the mesh mostly quad to prevent artifacts when subdividing, optimize the game version when normal has been baked.

dabu

So, Ive decided to skip normal mapping on this character and just do geo and texture. Target tri count is 5500, right now its 5300ish.

will probably do a single 1024 with a 256 for detail alphas.

I like it much better already. Still trying to figure out how to add the details to the bra and skirt. Also need to detail the back a bit more. Hows the stomach looking to you guys?

Thanks again for all the feedback, extremely helpful.

cheers

dabu

Psyk0

I think you're on the right track, here are some suggestions:

-The stomach area looks fine to me, altho you could move around those top edges to represent the ribcage.

-Shoulders look too wide and i dont like how you posed the arms, the pose isnt very natural: keep in mind that it will be animated at some point, but if it was modeled in an awkward position, some of that weirdness will be left behind even when animated. My point is try to use a neutral pose that will fit most situations.

-The hand could use a better posture, hands arent flat, model/pose them in a relaxed or even "grip" position. In general try to give your model a more dynamic pose, it will help to break the stiffness, this is anatomy after all and anatomy isnt made of straight lines .

-I'd go over the proportions, starting with the head, i think it's too big and makes her look too young. Forearm too thin.

-You have edges that could be removed and wouldnt affect the silhouette. You could basically build the same character with 3-4k.

dabu

Great feedback Psyko

Im getting the final geo nailed down now, almost ready to uv and start painting.

The HAnds needed a lot of love (still going on them), and now that Im not sculpting from this mesh, I was able to optimize out a lot of extra faces.

Need to detail the bra next, current count is 5380. Couldn't resist, had to model the upper ass dimples. I could probably just do those with a texture, I know.

dabu

Still not sure what I want to do with the costume, so I started hunting around for more reference. The style of ref that Husch posted is classic bellydance. I am going more for ATS, synonymous with scenes like burning man.

My goal is to end up with something more like this:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/ruiner4242/RACHEL201220WEB.jpg
http://www.evergreentribalarts.com/rachel-brice-looking-down.jpg

dabu

... And Im back. Finally going to finish this lady.

I just uved, came in at 5485, right under my budget. Im sure it can go lower, and as I flesh out the details, Ill probably take more out of the sash, belt, and head.

Steve Schulze

Given the amount of hip movement and focus thats going to be necessary with a belly-dancer character, do you think it might be worth adding a little more tesselation to the belly region.

Personally I'd be inclined to make the butt and hip area a bit larger and more distinct, again as its a focal point.

JKMakowka

The entire back is to flat,especially in the shoulder-blade area.

Hooyaah

Study some more models and choose the features that you find most alluring and incorporate them. So fsr, an outstanding effort! Always sculpt then paint. Do you paint a barn or build it first? You know what to do.
Awesome, awesome work.

Hooyaah

Ooops, My bad. I forgot to mention than some bones should show through, like the spine and the Iliac crest of the pelvis. However, she looks great already. Sort or reminicent of an ancient Roman statue.

dabu

Good point JK, tweaked and pulled out shoulder blades and spine.

Thanks for the encouragement, Hooyaah. I should note, this character is NOT a traditional bellydancer. I am modeling her after the ATS (American Tribal Style). The focus is on the arms and the stomach, so that hopefully will help explain my direction.

The face is coming along nicely, can't wait to put all sorts of makeup on once the base is done. Gonna do a pass on the body next.

( I know, it looks like she has a bit of a 'stache right now. I will fix that)

dabu

Finally got some more time to plug away. Im happy with the way its coming along, but fixing the armpit seams is gonna be a hassle, will probably have to re uv some, erg.

Theres gonna be some sort of cool a sym tattoo over her lover back and hips, can't wait to get the skin done so I can move on to that. There will be a lot of hanging bead details off the bra as well.

Xaltar

Looking much better dude, keep up the great progress.

MoP

Love that skirt detail, nice work on the face too. I like it!
Bra looks a bit oddly shaped but maybe that's just me.

Keep it up! Can't wait to see all the nice tassels/hanging beads/coins that bellydancers favour

Japhir

looks sweet! face is nice!

dabu

Thanks for the encouragement, guys.

hoping to have this done in the next few days, still figuring out what I want to do tattoo wise...

Necklace isn't working for me, will probably build it out of separate geo...

Quickel

agree about the necklace. the texture for the skin looks a bit flat - perhaps some contrast?

nice model.

hawken

the face started looking out cute but honestly I'd lose the chin a bit

for some reason the eyes look cuter on this one (because of the slight cross-eye effect;

dabu

Well, I think shes pretty much done.

The massive tattoo took way too long, and Im not super stoked on the way it came out, but I just can't spend the time to illustrate my textures. She could also use more interesting makeup, but what I have suffices. Hair could be better too. Oops forgot to add teeth...

The hands were done super quick and dirty, and are probably the weakest aspect.

Otherwise, Im happy with it. I can proudly say this is my best character yet. Now to try rigging her up and doing some poses...

Cheers Hawken, the camera was wider angle in the shot you are referring to and it distorts her face...

LoTekK

Hot damn this turned out really nice! Love the details and trim on the fabrics, and that tat is pretty exquisite. Face turned out nice too. If I had any crits, they would be that the skin (and especially the arms) looks rather unfinished in comparison. Needs a bit more tone and contrast, I think (though I sometimes have trouble striking the right balance between subtlety and contrast). Another thing is that while the folds of the skirt look awesome, along with the trim and embroidery, the fabric texture overlay looks like just that: an overlay. It doesn't make any attempt to conform with the contours of the cloth (this is especially noticeable on the terry(?) wrap, though not as noticeable at the front).

Hm, just noticed as well, some of that nice back definition you had in the previous shots has been lost.

But yeah, really nice job overall.

Ruz

really nice.just think you could clean up the texture on the face a little. the nose looks a bit dirty. I guess its a photo overlay.

dabu

LoTeKK,

great crit, thank you. I'm not quite happy with it, and being the perfectionist that I am, I'll have to go back to it. Do you have any painting techniques for getting patterns to warp? I'm trying to do things with the utmost of efficiency for the cloth, and the smudge tool is the only thing I can think of for warping the patterns.

Yeah, I see what you mean about definition in the skin. She needs elbow pits! And the tat covers the definition in the back now...

dnorth

Looks nice man. For warping the skirt pattern overlay, I would probably try Liquify. If that's not working for you, you could also create a soft height map based on the wrinkles and apply Distort->Displace to it. I don't think smudge is really the way to go because rather than distorting the pattern, it'll mostly just smear and blur it.

yeluis

real nice work. i fell a bit more contrast on the skin would help and the bra wrapping right under the breast seems a bit weird. Awsome work though

Em.

Hey, this turned out really nice, besides the little things everyone else mentioned. Great proportions, great costuming and a nice face. Looking forward to seeing the final product.

dabu

Liquify is darn cool. Thanks for the tip.

Only thing missing is some teeth, blend shapes, and a proper rigging job. I got her into something one step above bind pose, and Im stoked. Though her boobies start deforming pretty bad if I move her arms any more. Ive never posed any of my characters before.



Thanks so much for all the feedback, guys. I may get a rigging tut from a professional tomorrow, so if it works out, Ill post a few more shots.

Joao Sapiro

the cloth in her waist is reading as extremely fake, and kinda breaking the soft realistic style of the texture looking really good !

ironbearxl

The skin is reading as flat, you need some cool|warm variations in the skin tone.

The shading around the nose/muzzle looks like abuse of the burn tool, around the nostrils needs more defintion, they looks like two dots among flat color.

Looks like it could really become a strong piece overall though!

Joao Sapiro

could you show a shot in gouraud shade ? like 30% self ilumination ?

dabu

wires with self illum:

I hear you guys on the contrast / skin warm cool colors thing. Can you point me to some flats of females that you think show this well? Ive only found a lot of dudes with facial hair...

dabu

jgarland

This turned out quite nice, Dabu. There are a few things that could be improved upon, but I'm mostly just nit-picking.

There's only one really glaring problem that stands out, and that's her wrist. I don't know if just looks weird because of the cuff covering it, but it looks like it's broken, or hyperextending or something.

Other than that, it all looks quite nice. Good work.

poopinmymouth

What's with the disconnect between the texture flats in this last image and what's being displayed on the model? Looks like an auto levels or something.

I think you really managed to carry off the final model/texture combo. I wasn't sure at the beginning, but it looks very nice now. The contrast is a little shallow, and like Jgarland said, the wrists look really wavy/broken. Probably just a weighting issue.

Nice work buddy, another good portfolio piece.

dabu

Cheers Jgar! Hey Ben! Yeah, Ive been catching some flak about the wrists. I would like to rig the fingers too and really get a more dynamic pose going, but I'm starting to get sick of this thing and need to move on to a new project. Ill take one more crack at it.

Yeah, I don't know whats up with my texture, but no matter how hard I push the contrast in pshop, it just looks shallow in Maya.

Thanks for your kind words. Hopefully Ill be on my way to some freelance character work soon.

+)

dabu

a small tidbit

http://www.dabudesign.com/wip/ksohead/walking.mov

fritz

sexy walk indeed. her right hand looks a little awkward to me tho.

sama.van

That's strange, you don't have same render on diffuse and viewport.
Proportion are right, but I prefer young babe (I'm young too, please don't think strange things <_<)

Before go sleep :


hell 03:30 AM W_W ... work to compagny tomorrrow. noooo....

fogmann

In that walk cycle the hands are passing through the thighs and there's some pinching in upper part of the skirt
But aside from that, looks great!

KICKER

I love your choice of colors, her dress and makeup/flower all work very well together. I also like the skin the way you have it, I think it gives her a more eastern European look which is where I would expect to find most gypsies and belly dancers. Pale is still sexy!

Im pretty sure it's been said before but her wrists look really rubbery. Besides that great work!

moose

rad!

i love the skin tone contrast to the dress. Really cool lookin.

I think her wrist may be too rubbery though, the first pose makes it seem like she has a gummy wrist with it bending in more places than the one place it should be.

ElysiumGX

Pale is sexy indeed. This turned out way better than I expected from the beginning. I really like when artists place details into the character's outfits (when they design an outfit at all).

In the animation, it looks as if the weighting around the belly needs to be smoothed a little more between the ribcage and hips to move more naturally.