Any good references for drapery?

ChaosEidolon

I am getting my ass kicked trying to draw drapery, and i know ive seen some very good tutorials out there, outlining the different fold types etc. but i cant seem to find em.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

MoP

Bridgman's "Drawing the Draped Figure"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0486418...ce&n=283155

$5, you can't say no. I own it, and it's been very useful to me.

ChaosEidolon

haha! youre spot on man...bridgman is by far my fav artist for reference. I actually already have 3 of the books in that series, but only dealing with straight-up anatomy.

I was hoping for instant gratification though, like, on the internets

But yeah, you know what...i think i'll just go ahead and order that right now so i'll have it for next time. Thanks for the link

Daz

More for modeling than drawing, I always found these quicktime VR's quite useful for fabric folds on figures. Shame the lighting is so flat but hey ho, better than nothing:

http://www.anything3d.com/model-portfolio_session/index.php3

ChaosEidolon

woah...

Thanks man, that site is amazing.

Im still waiting for my holo-picture camera. 2k came and went..what the hell is takin those scientists so long

MoP

Daz that's an awesome link! Cheers!

Makkon

Holy friggits, mop! I have that book sitting not 4 inches from my left hand... It is a good book, saved my hiney a few times. Even helps with modeling folds for highpoly. It's like... what, 4 bucks? Totally worth it.

Husch

I can recommend a book by Burne Hogarth on this matter, called
"Dynamic Wrinkles and Drapery". Here is the amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0823015...ce&n=283155

oXYnary

Just stay away from Hogarths anatomy..

SuperOstrich

I think that staying away from a book (Dynamic Anatomy) that nearly every employed game artist has used at one point or another is bad advice.

That said, here's another vote for Dynamic Wrinkles and Drapery. I've got a copy sitting on my desk right now.

ChaosEidolon

well, Hogarth is good for action and foreshortening, but Ill agree that his anatomy is weird. Its VERY idealized, and for my personal taste, has too much of that overworked sterile look to it. Plus he doesnt do "subtle". It does lend itself well to comicbook styles though, so it depends on where youre comin from.

but yeah... Bridgman 4 laif *gang symbols*
books in the mail! yey

SuperOstrich

Exaggerated? Yes. Idealized? Yes. Totally relevent and useful to the artist? Hell Yes.

MoP

While Hogarth is good reference and teaching, his musculature is really not a good starting point for an artist trying to learn anatomy. Bridgman (and Loomis) are waaaay better for that.

I own and have studied from books by all these three, and I have to say that Bridgman and Loomis have always been more accurate and useful when it comes to learning proportions, musculature and general things about the body.
That said, some of Hogarth's observations have been useful too, curves of limbs and such, and as ChaosEidolon mentioned, foreshortening and action poses. It's definitely more relevent to comic book style work.

If someone trying to learn anatomy asked me for a book recommendation though, Hogarth is not at the top of the list of books I'd recommend. Top 5, yes, but it's not the sort of book you can take on it's own value. It should be balanced out with learning from other sources. I would say that Loomis and Bridgman both work well as standalone sources, but Hogarth should be diluted with references showing accurate and realistic anatomy.

Anyway, this is off topic kinda, but it's interesting anyway

SuperOstrich

It's only barely off-topic.

Loomis is my first choice for accurate anatomy as well, but I've discovered very useful things about muscles with Hogarth. Especially when it comes to huge, body builder-like anatomy.

And I wouldn't recommend it to the young artist trying to learn anatomy either, but that wasn't what Oxy's comment was that sparked my defense to the book.

ChaosEidolon

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...when it comes to huge, body builder-like anatomy.

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Hmm...thats a good point. The exaggeration would prolly be pretty handy for learning muscle relationships.

...By the way, while we're on this tangent, i found the most amazing website the other day, not only for reference, but for stock images. All those scans are public domain, so you can do with it what you please!

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/historicalanatomies/browse.html

MoP

Hey, another awesome link!
Thanks, ChaosEidolon!

oXYnary

Super, IMO I bought a used copy a few months ago just to see what all the fuss was about and was throughly reprimanded by the local conceptart.org group. Looking closer at the book they were right. His idealism isnt the problem its his style that confuses the information. He might be a good place to get some ideas, but DO NOT use him for a reference to assimulate style and exageration.

I also found out that book was done earlier in his career. His later books (like the wrinkles) are a more helpful.

Per Anatomy
Bridgeman is great. However, Im very surprised with the talent we have on this board no one has mentioned (in order of difficulty from least to greater), Peck, Goldfinger (Kolby's choice BTW), or Hale.

He may be an oldy, but he did incredible work that eventually should be part of anyones reference library. Albinus.

EDIT misspelled

MoP

oXYnary: Albinus's work is on that page ChaosEidolon just linked to - I just downloaded and saved it all, it's great
That Goldfinger book looks pretty good too (not Goldberg?), and I've heard good things about Hale's books.

oXYnary

Im getting a weird moira pattern with the cross hatching. Later on if you can afford it, get the book. The prints are taking from the original plates.

Makkon

Those books look great, but the one I've have the most success from was this one:


Here's some scans of the pages: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/Makkon/Reference/GiovanniCivardi_anatomy03.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/Makkon/Reference/GiovanniCivardi_anatomy02.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/Makkon/Reference/GiovanniCivardi_anatomy01.jpg

MoP

Yeah, I like Civardi's stuff too, although for some reason in the book I have by him, all the drawings are really low-contrast, which is kinda annoying. It'd be better if the lines were darker.
He's a master of rendering though. I still wouldn't rank him as highly as Loomis or Bridgman though, simply because he doesn't explain the basics of musculature as simply or straightforward as they manage.

oXYnary

You can tell a true person who knows anatomy from someone who looked too often at medical models. Unfortunately Makkon, Civadi is the later.

Proof?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/Makkon/Reference/GiovanniCivardi_anatomy02.jpg

The rib cage on a living breathing human being is much more angled. In fact there is only little more than a fist size area between the top of the pelvis and bottom of the 10th rib. His diagram to the side is right, his illustration is not.

People who have looked at medical skeletons are preceiving this all wrong. As first the skeleton is not mounted with the correct angle in the ribs. Its much steeper from rear to front. Second the often forget about how much the costal cartilidge of the lower ribs stick out the chest more. Third they often make the cartilidge pads between the vertebrae too small (its thicker in real life).

frostymoose

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Picky.

oXYnary

Duh. We did evolve into a discussion about anatomy books. Go get How to Draw the Marvel Way, frostymoose. I think that might be at your level..

ChaosEidolon

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words

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Picky.

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lol! welcome to art... *hands you a pencil*

ChaosEidolon

well, just got "Drawing the Draped Figure" in the mail today.

Awesomeness, very nice and straight forward, everthing broken down and well illustrated. Just what i was looking for.

Thanks for the recommendations.