Low Poly Hardware Specs

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Nintendo DS

screen_ds.png

suggested polygon count for performance (total visible): 2000
texture memory (per screen): 512kb
max texture size: 1024px x 1024px
screen colour depth: 18-bit (260,000 colours)
alpha blending: 5-bit (32 colours)
suggested texture size: under 128 x 128


Sony PSP

screen_psp.png

suggested polygon count for performance (total visible): 50,000
texture memory: 2mb
max texture size: 128px x 128px
screen colour depth: 16-bit (65,536 colours)
alpha blending: 8-bit (256 colours)


iPhone 3G

screen_mobile.png

suggested polygon count for performance (total visible): 7000
texture memory: 24MB
max texture size: 1024px x 1024px
screen colour depth: 16-bit (65,536 colours)
alpha blending: free! (use PNG)
suggested texture size: under 512 x 512

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  • steady
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    cool cool cool
    just an idea
    lets do a vote and choose one format
    and then use challenges/contests to generate content and make a lowpoly polycount.net game hoooraaaayyy
  • hawken
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    depends which format we can get the most info for really. devs, please chip in.
  • master of unlocking
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    Here is what I know about the DS.

    polygons per screen at 60fps: <font color="red"> 2000 </font> Well, this is true if you plan to have 3D going on both screens. Which I wouldn't recommend. A good scenario is 2000 polys per frame at 60fps. You can also pull off 4000 polys per frame if you drop to 30 fps.
  • hawken
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    there's a limited number of verts it can hold in memory - so you can only get 2048 polygons on each screen even if you're running at 1 frame per second.

    It really is a hard fast rule of the hardware according to a thread on http://forum.gbadev.org/
  • KDR_11k
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    If you give it a framebuffer you could draw half the scene in the first pass and the other half in the second pass.
  • Toomas
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    [ QUOTE ]
    If you give it a framebuffer you could draw half the scene in the first pass and the other half in the second pass.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If it could only hold 2048tris in memory then you would have to do t&l twice aswell and i dont know how good you can do it (i guess you cant really).
  • lkraan
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    Here's what I know about the PSP. In the end how much of the specs that you will use depends on your engine and how much resources is needed for other stuff.

    polygons per screen at 60fps: 80k per frame is what we're sticking with as the limit
    texture memory (per screen): ?
    max texture size: 128px x 128px (yep)
    screen colour depth: ?
    3d data format: GMO
    texture format: GIM which goes from 4 bit indexed to 32bit RGBA. With the standard GMO model converter the texture gets baked in the binary GMO file along with the model.
    alpha blending: 8bit
  • Toomas
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    I was just wondering, so you use 256colour textures for DS now is it viable to have custom pallet for each texture?
  • hawken
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    [ QUOTE ]
    I was just wondering, so you use 256colour textures for DS now is it viable to have custom pallet for each texture?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    that would appear to be the case
  • Toomas
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    DS can do coloured lightning, that is proven by AC:WW fireworks.
    AC does semi transparency aswell (embarassed animation).
  • CheapAlert
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    P100 w/ Voodoo2 can go 45fps with 3500 polys onscreen with 5 256x256 textures on 640x480 iirc :P
  • jimiyo
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    i dont know if this is the right area to ask, (Great info BTW!!!) what kind of polycount/texture does WOW characters and objects have? they all seem to be relatively low poly eh?
  • danr
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    (disclaimer - all the following info is apparent to anyone with a copy of the noted game) ... 128x128 isn't a "maximum" size for the PSP hardware - on our last PSP game, you'll see several environment textures scattered around the place at that res x2, and a couple at even bigger than that. 128 is however a good guide for a practical top-end size for general texture use. "Maximum" size is 1024x1024


    Also - the screen display is 24-bit, but some games run in a 16-bit mode.
  • Ryno
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    Yeah, we're going bigger than 128s as well. I did a bunch at 256, and a few at 512x256 with the intention of downsizing as needed. Apparently it isn't needed, as it is running fine.
  • CMB
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    Does anybody know anything about ngage?
  • Steve Schulze
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    I've developed for NGage. I'll have to look up the specifics as its been a while, but I can tell you for a start theres no alpha blending. It supports Targa format textures. Pretty sure the screen is 16 bit. Maximum texture size appears to be 4096*4096 but feasibly you'd never want anything bigger than 128*128 unless you're texturing vast areas of level geometry or something.
  • CMB
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    Thanks JackBlade.
    Would this tri. count plan work good?
    600 main character
    400-600 npcs.
    100-200 a weapon
    200 doodads and environment art.
    Any examples,portfolios,textures or wireframes of ngage games would be great.
  • uk_resistant
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    what about extra maps like spec, normal etc etc

    I know Psp can do spec maps, but im intrested in normals.
    Ps2 can do them so it isnt out the question is it?
  • Toomas
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    PS2 can render normalmaps? I kind of doubt it.
  • uk_resistant
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    quoted from wikipedia (which actually used to say a few games that used normal maps, one of them being path of neo)

    "Currently, normal mapping has been utilized successfully and extensively on both the PC and gaming consoles. Initially, Microsoft's Xbox was the only home game console to fully support this effect, whereas other consoles use a software-only implementation as they don't support it directly on hardware."


    so i guess yeah,ps2 can do them.
  • Joseph Silverman
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    [ QUOTE ]

    so i guess yeah,ps2 can do them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not sure that's true. Anyone can add to Wikipedia.


    I don't have any real knowledge about this, but I seem to remember compaines like Ubisoft specifically mentioning what effects they were using instead of normal mapping when making a PS2 version of some of their Xbox games. (Like SCCT and GR2)
  • uk_resistant
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    yeah thats true.
    At the very least in terms of consoles xbox can because it has doom 3.
    anyways, would be cool if psp could do it, regardless of how it would look on the tiny screen.
  • Joseph Silverman
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    At the PSP's texture resolutions I don't imagine normals would look great.
  • CrazyButcher
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    no real specs, but a nice overview of "same game" on multi platforms, on the left you can change to the different platforms

    http://startrek.bethsoft.com/art/ta_pspscreens.html
  • achmedthesnake
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    kinda, late on this thread, but what the hell...

    regarding the PSP - it can play flash swf's through its webbrowser function, and as far is a know it only takes flash player 6 stuff - anyone one know wether that's increased with the firmware upgrades - it'd be nice if we could get some as2/as3 action happening

    (and damn sony for making dev on a psp so bloomin hard).
  • fade1
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    Toomas wrote: »
    I was just wondering, so you use 256colour textures for DS now is it viable to have custom pallet for each texture?

    you can't use more then 256 colors on the ds. for alpha texture there is just stencil then. for 5bit alpha 32 colors for 3bit alpha 8 colors.
    there is converter to "autoconvert" the textures, but the quality is not that good. especially for alphas you need to handpick to get better results.
  • jpgourley
    alpha blending: 1,3, and 5 Bit

    Getting alpha sorting to work correctly on the DS can be a pain, if I can go with a 1 bit I absolutely do.

    There is a max limit of 2000 Polys per frame, but you can also run into problems if there is over about 400 polys being drawn in a single line. This can cause massive screen tearing issues.

    We try to keep our levels under 10k tri's to prevent performance issues, but I have seen some that run perfectly fine coming in at around 17k tris.
    Thetexture memory (per screen) number given doesn't sound right. It may depend on your engine and how the memory banks are being distributed between compressed textures, uncompressed textures, as well as sound and model data. In my experience I've had two 128Kb banks delegated for compressed and uncompressed textures, with an additional 128 bank being partially (64Kb) used to uncompress the textures while the additional 64Kb is used for sound. All additional memory goes to model data and the executable files. Designating one bank for compressed textures you do lose half of another, but you fit about three times the textures in when compressed.
  • dactilardesign
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    what about adding Iphone to the thread?
    from an iphone thread:
    rul119 wrote: »
    I´using unity3d for developing a game for the iphone and the limit with this engine is 7000triangles on screen


    suggested polygon count for performance (total visible): 7000?
    texture memory (per screen): 24MB?
    max texture size: 1024px x 1024px
    screen colour depth: 16-bit (65,000 colours)
    3d data format: ?
    texture format: ?
    alpha blending: ?
    suggested texture size: under 512?


    The only model I've done for Iphone was around 2000 triangles and 512x512 texture for an OpenGLES engine.

    btw, I think DS specs are correct.
  • genericnamedave
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    In my experience of doing art for a few platforms, the DS is the ultimate exercise in creating low-poly/low-texture models. We had to make whole characters with 300 tris and use 100x100 maps.

    The low-poly character also has to register nicely in that small frame. So, my vote is for the DS format.

    (PSP if we were doing 1000 tris with 256x256 maps)
  • ptoing
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    I am quite sure that the NDS has a bitdepth of 5 bit per channel, making it 15 bit of colourrange, not 18.
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