computer a splode: desktop recommendations
polycounter lvl 18
storm last night that caused a power outage. today, the computer -seemed ok, but then rebooted itself while i was watching tv... and now, accompanying a burning smell from the power source housing, it won't boot up at all.
good times, especially as i was very close to getting my portfolio together.
now i know that the best thing to do would be to have the power source fixed as it seems clear that's where the problem lies. but this system has given me too many headaches and as i currently work remotely from home, dependability is everything.
so i'm looking to buy a new system and cannibalize from the old a couple of things (harddrives, possibly RAM) but otherwise get a whole new system. sell off the old one or something, i dunno. it's still a pretty good computer, just not for me anymore.
so i'd like to buy a system from a major manufacturer, not build one. again: dependability and productive stability are key, with gaming as a close third. recommendations?
Dell i've gotten machines from before and looks like the best bet for me currently. but the other specifics i'm not so sure of, and since this has suddenly interrupted my portfolio building i'm too tired to go through the whole research process for a new machine right now.
my buying habits: i tend to buy just behind the curve. cutting edge means you're paying a huge premium for the fresh off the line stuff; buying the next one down means a lot cheaper without all that much of a drop in performance.
so. given that i'm usually working in Photoshop all the time with large concepts (3000x4000 pixels or bigger with layers) and probably with max open as well, what should i be looking for? a Dual Core system? what's a good bet for video card?
i prefer intel and nvidia. i've already got a good display so that's a concern... looking to spend in the neighborhood of $2k to 2500 if need be. i don't want a custom-built system, i want a system built to spec by a major manufacturer.... so yeah, what's the best machine for me?
good times, especially as i was very close to getting my portfolio together.
now i know that the best thing to do would be to have the power source fixed as it seems clear that's where the problem lies. but this system has given me too many headaches and as i currently work remotely from home, dependability is everything.
so i'm looking to buy a new system and cannibalize from the old a couple of things (harddrives, possibly RAM) but otherwise get a whole new system. sell off the old one or something, i dunno. it's still a pretty good computer, just not for me anymore.
so i'd like to buy a system from a major manufacturer, not build one. again: dependability and productive stability are key, with gaming as a close third. recommendations?
Dell i've gotten machines from before and looks like the best bet for me currently. but the other specifics i'm not so sure of, and since this has suddenly interrupted my portfolio building i'm too tired to go through the whole research process for a new machine right now.
my buying habits: i tend to buy just behind the curve. cutting edge means you're paying a huge premium for the fresh off the line stuff; buying the next one down means a lot cheaper without all that much of a drop in performance.
so. given that i'm usually working in Photoshop all the time with large concepts (3000x4000 pixels or bigger with layers) and probably with max open as well, what should i be looking for? a Dual Core system? what's a good bet for video card?
i prefer intel and nvidia. i've already got a good display so that's a concern... looking to spend in the neighborhood of $2k to 2500 if need be. i don't want a custom-built system, i want a system built to spec by a major manufacturer.... so yeah, what's the best machine for me?
Replies
All i can say is do not buy Alienware, thier tech support sucks, and if something goes bad you are more than likely to end up talking to someone who barely speaks english.
I still lean towords building your own, but I probably lean that way cause i've probably built over 100 computers myself. So i have lots of practice.
If you do decide to build your own, i heartily recommend AMD, Asus, Corsair, and Nvidia. Intel might perform faster in office applications, but not enough to warrent the extra cost. Not to mention that AMD performs much better in games.
Considering what you do with your system, i would say a dual core processor would be a perfect fit. They tend to be slower in games, but not by much. And if you multitask allot the increased performance there makes up the difference. I would make sure you get atleast 2 gigs of ram. that seems to be where to shoot at the moment. The 6800 GT is still the best bang for the buck video card right now, although the GS just came out and seems to perform almost as good and is about $100 cheaper. If you got the extra money you could go the 7800 route. but then you still have to choose from the GT, GTX and GTX 512mb version.......that was just announced yesterday. Those things run around $700 a pop though.
Whatever you do i wouldn't recommend going SLI. It's cheaper to just wait till a newer faster card comes out than it is to buy two slower cards and run them in SLI. not to mention the headaches you will avoid. SLI can be a PAIN!!! I know that from lots of expirience.....tech support sucks.
I would avoid going raid 0, but that is also just my opinion. I think raid systems fail too often. one hard drive dies and you loose everything. I find it easier and more reliable to just have 2 hard drives and manually back up your important files every once in a while. Also one thing to think of is that if you move your current hard drive into a new system you wont be able to boot from the old hard drive. XP doesn't like it when you throw it onto a different hard drive controller than the one it was isntalled on. You will get a STOP 7B BSOD error.
and i personaly like seagate hard drives. sometimes they can be loud, but they are the only HDD amnaufacturer i know of that has a 5 year warranty.
hope all this info helps :P
If you do decide to build your own, i heartily recommend AMD, Asus, Corsair, and Nvidia. Intel might perform faster in office applications, but not enough to warrent the extra cost. Not to mention that AMD performs much better in games.
Considering what you do with your system, i would say a dual core processor would be a perfect fit. They tend to be slower in games, but not by much. And if you multitask allot the increased performance there makes up the difference. I would make sure you get atleast 2 gigs of ram. that seems to be where to shoot at the moment. The 6800 GT is still the best bang for the buck video card right now, although the GS just came out and seems to perform almost as good and is about $100 cheaper. If you got the extra money you could go the 7800 route. but then you still have to choose from the GT, GTX and GTX 512mb version.......that was just announced yesterday. Those things run around $700 a pop though.
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Good advice, I second almost everything he says, except the dual core part. Dual cores are still faster in games, just not by much. But you can assign certain processes to certain cores, so that way you can play games/torrent at the same time or something like that to get a true performance boost.
From my experience with Intel Dual Cores (I work at a custom computer building/repair shop), unless you do a lot of workstation stuff and little gaming, I'd skip them. But if you like to switch between high end apps and run them nice and smoothly, grab an Intel dual core that has HT. 4 threads = nice
The trick with Dell is to watch for a sale on their site and also completely exploit the fact that you're either a student or working in a technology field. You can usually knock about 10% off the total price with one of those.
If you go the Dell route, I have a reseller account with them which usually means I save on taxes and typically get a slightly better price. If you want to pm me with a system spec, I'll be happy to get it quoted out for you. You get the same warranty and it ships directly to you.
Either way, I've had systems from both places and can recommend them both.
mule: i am going to stick with major manufacturers because not only is the warranty nice, i just don't have the time or energy to build another system. you've built so many systems that you can build one that's going to be dependable; i've built one for my brother. and that one has had crash problems. so i'm not really keen on repeating that experience.. time really is money for me right now, too. i just have no time to fuck around. if that means paying more to make sure the machine doesn't have little niggling issues, then fine by me.
thank you for the advice on the SLI stuff--i had a feeling that wasn't going to be a good fit for me, and i don't think it is. RAID arrays are also not something i'm interested in, msnual backups are fine.
nitzmoff: cool. big empty towers don't bother me too much, i like to rest my feet on them
thanks everyone, and expendable i will definitely have to consider it. Dell is looking more and more like the best solution for me.
If/when applications begin to support dual core functionality the way they should, rather than ignoring it as with SMP the last decade, I'd be all for it. For now, I'd spend a given amount of cash on the fastest single core I can get to maximize the utility rather than get a pair of slower cores I'll sometimes but not always benefit from.
and a little update: the computer is back alive. my nose was right: the power source gave up the ghost, so a swap out with an older computer has granted this computer a stay of execution, at the very least until i get this portfolio out the door. should go and pick up a new PSU since this one's a little underpowered... i'm still not the happiest with it, but a wheezy, angry little computer is better than one that doesn't work at all.
Also be sure you buy dual channel matched pair 2x1gb's and the timing is 2-2-2...I recommend Kingston, Corsair or Patriot brands only for dual channel kits.
I also recommend getting a newer drive, ATA133 with an 8mb cache and 2ms seektime or less, mininium. The access time on these faster drives helps incredibly, especially for a page/swap file.
Also, unless you are going to upgrade in the near future, avoid PCI-Express slotted motherboards. AGP cards are plenty fast right now and much cheaper than PCI-E cards unless you want the upgradeability...
Lastly and MOST IMPORTANT. DO NOT BUY any motherboard/cpu that is socket 754. Make sure its 939 or 940 pin board.
754 = 1600mhz FSB (bargain basement generic 64bit socket!)
939 = 2000mhz FSB (much better for the higher end cpus!!)
also pay close attention to the cache on the cpu! some cores are different from others...for example:
AMD 64 3500 = 2.2ghz and 640k cache
AMD 64 3700 = 2.2ghz and 1mb cache
My current system:
AMD 64 3000+
GigaByte MoBo
GigaByte 3D Rocket CPU Cooler
1Gig RAM
NVidia FX 5700 LE (AGP)
SB Live! Sound Card
Fancy case with window, 450Watt P/S, and LED Fans
All cost me just over $500 From NewEgg.Com
Seriously though, Apples are great for 3D modeling and texturing.
Man_o_Mule - not sure what you're talking about with Alienware. I've bought all of my systems from them, and they're top notch. Their tech support has been extremely good for me, and has always been on top of any issues I've had. Maybe you've just had a bad experience with them?
With that said I'll probably be building my own comp in the next year, don't feel like paying all the extra cash for another alienware. plus i can recycle a few parts.
Why not make the switch to an Apple G5? The only thing you use that it won't run natively is Max, but Silo and Maya do run very well.
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I recently heard that Apple is making the switch to Intel processors, so you will be able to run either Mac OS or Windows or both side by side on the next generation of Macs. Let me just emphasize that I heard it, so take this info with a grain of salt.
I have one from them and I love my computer. Runs everything perfectly. I run Maya, photoshop, browser, itunes, same time, no prob! And I'm not sure how they can give you what they do for so cheap. 3 year warranty, top notch hardware. You can choose a package or build your own.
Edit:
Um I don't know how I missed that someone already suggested the site I just gave.
I buy intel now ¬_¬
My 2¢
good luck on the new comp
P.S. (AMD for teh win!)
PCI-E, is the next hottest thing... when the industry decides to take that step, which it hasn't yet. So that leaves a lot of games and apps that are designed to run on AGP cards out in the cold.
Personally I am an Intel/Nvidia guy, I have build a AMD system, its my b!tch box, it works great. It gave me a wee-bit more faith in AMD but then I read things like:
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hey what do ya know, after a power surge, my computer randomly reboots every now and then TOO!! AND I lose data when it happens. Must be a bad time for computers...
good luck on the new comp
P.S. (AMD for teh win!)
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"My Saturn is a pile of crap! At random it veers off to the left on straight aways, dude buy a Saturn!"
Maybe having an AMD system that randomly restarts, and looses data isn't a good idea... Not sure if its the user, the hardware or the power surge but I know I can control one of those two things =P
I think the price tag on the Dell's (all brand name computers) are too high and you could build a better system for cheaper but really any of the top computer makers offer about the same parts for the same price so it almost comes down to what case you like =/
An Intel processor won't improve your chances of surviving a power surge, it's just blind stinking luck. I have an old Athlon that survived a power surge that ruined the PS, motherboard, and hard drive, the CPU has been working fine the last 3 years since the accident.
but i can understand that you shy away from building a work machine yourself. i'll go that route too for my next box which will not be supposed to run games either.
there's quality offerings besides boxx - HP makes some nice machines for example - high up on my list atm. also, siemens celsius workstations are fine stuff.
oh, and hard-drive wise definitely demand nothing less than a seagate. reliable as hell, which i can't say for ibm/hitachi, for example
vig: what kind of difference does agp vs. pci-express make at the moment? why is agp still preferrable?
On the flip side I read tons of good tech reviews and articles about how great it is and how its the wave of the future.
At this point in time, it's so new and the programs are not set up to take full advantage of PCI-E. Most of the drivers are trying to force better preformance which I personally think is the main driving force behind the errors. They are trying to prove thier new cards are blowing the doors off of AGP. But it is at a price since the programs themselves are sometimes being forced to run differently. PCI-E "should" work perfectly with all games, but it doesn't. I think the AGP cards have enough power to run any game/app confidently with less errors and wierd crashes. Give people some time to get used to the new tech, develop drivers and apps for it, and it will be great. Right now I would say its too much unstability and a bit unnessessary right now. 2-3-6mo everything might be different.
I have heard some horror stories from the techs here that are running PCI-E. I also hear horror stories about customers with "awesome systems" running PCI-Express not being able to get some games working. Specifily they seem to be getting wierd random memory errors while playing or running 3D apps. The errors don't seem to be fixable, and they are often not repeatable so it makes it hard to nail them down.
On the flip side I read tons of good tech reviews and articles about how great it is and how its the wave of the future.
At this point in time, it's so new and the programs are not set up to take full advantage of PCI-E. Most of the drivers are trying to force better preformance which I personally think is the main driving force behind the errors. They are trying to prove thier new cards are blowing the doors off of AGP. But it is at a price since the programs themselves are sometimes being forced to run differently. PCI-E "should" work perfectly with all games, but it doesn't. I think the AGP cards have enough power to run any game/app confidently with less errors and wierd crashes. Give people some time to get used to the new tech, develop drivers and apps for it, and it will be great. Right now I would say its too much unstability and a bit unnessessary right now. 2-3-6mo everything might be different.
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PCI-e is just the bus. The bus itself has nothing to do with stability. Once you get past the bus it's all a case of the chipset (I highly recommend Nforce4) and the GPU/drivers.
I cook normal maps 'all' the time, and with the aliasing at like, 7-15x you can bere tehre for a while.
-R
I cook normal maps 'all' the time, and with the aliasing at like, 7-15x you can bere tehre for a while.
I built a duel core system last week. I have been able to do everything i want and i 'cant' get f.e.a.r to drop frames, even when i tax the badboy beyond belief.
-R
-R
LOLZ
PCI-e is just the bus. The bus itself has nothing to do with stability. Once you get past the bus it's all a case of the chipset (I highly recommend Nforce4) and the GPU/drivers.
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I can see you are one of the people that doesn't have a problem. For those that do its pretty fustrating, espeically customers who buy a "gaming rig" from a name brand company to play games, and they end up with wierd memory errors. I'll be sure to pass it onto the techs to tell the people that call in (and the techs themselves) its all in thier head. I hear that goes over really well.
"I'm sorry we can't help you trouble shoot this error, because you imagined it"
I am mostly convinced it is a driver issue and has very little to do with the actual bus itself. They just added more lanes to the freeway. I think the drivers running the PCI-E cards are not handling the traffic the best way they can. I look at the new drivers like a newbie traffic cop on his first day. With time and better training (video drivers) things will get better and he won't F-up as much.
Data: I really need to go in tunnel 8 to get to the store, my baby needs milk asap!
PCI-E driver: you need to take tunnel 18, 8 is only allowed for oncomming traffic.
Data: Tunnel 18? I didn't know we had a tunnel 18? Since when?
PCI-E: Its a new shortcut go ahead and take it, it's faster.
Data: Hey I'm at the store in record time, now I just have to get home.
Data: Wait it looks like tunnel 18 is only oncoming traffic. Maybe I should take 8, I wish PCI-E told me which one would take me back the fastest. Oh hold on, 12 is empty sweet!
Data gets on 12 going the wrong way. He drives head long into oncomming traffic and causes a major accident that cripples the entire freeway for days. If only he was told which one to take back...
I'm a sucker for the P4/Nvidia setup, too. I reccomend getting a better fan than the stock P4 fans. My 6800 GT has never let me down. Make sure your powersupply is a good make and leaves you with plenty of wattage. Getting a POS powersupply is the best way to destabalize your whole system.
Lastly, go above and beyond a surge protector and buy a UPS. I've heard of people's rigs getting messed up from power dips, in addition to surges. Plus the UPS warranties cover unholy ammounts of monetary damage. If my belkin ever bites it I could theoretically buy a 7 series beamer.
Ha! Didn't see the reccomendation for cyberpower there. Actually after I finally got my replacement
Stay away from the 5 series Nvidia cards if you can. They do worse than ATIs that are nearly a year older.
check out tomshardware.com
Luck!