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Painting normal maps?

Bradfordart
polycounter lvl 18
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Bradfordart polycounter lvl 18
Is there a method in which a person could paint all normal maps without generating a highpoly first?

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  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Well, yes, I guess, but it'd be a bit tricky for anything that wasn't totally flat.

    For example if you want to make a 5-sided cylinder appear more organic and smooth, you'd have to know the difference in normal angle and paint accordingly ... I guess you could do it by trial and error but it'd take ages.

    Basically just paint in each channel individually, using smooth gradients as a base, would probably work a bit. But it'd probably be fairly mind-bending.
  • CrazyButcher
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    CrazyButcher polycounter lvl 18
    mostly working for "simple" details, you can convert bumpmaps (heightmaps) to normalmaps.
    many renderers also let you render a "scene" to normalmap, that way you could "model" some sort of detail and render it to a normalmap... easiest I guess would be painting heightmaps...

    http://developer.nvidia.com/object/photoshop_dds_plugins.html

    here is a normalmap filter from nvidia, which allows you to convert heightmaps to normalmaps
  • KDR_11k
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    KDR_11k polycounter lvl 18
    I guess ZBrush would also work but you have to have ZBrush for that...
  • Bradfordart
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    Bradfordart polycounter lvl 18
    Direction of the normals is a good point and seems like it would pose the biggest hurdle. The nvidia PS filter is originally what had me thinking of this, as if you could hand paint a height map and go from there.
  • Eric Chadwick
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    You can also photograph normal maps from real-life subjects, as long as it doesn't move and you can control the lighting...
    http://www.zarria.net/
  • Weiser_Cain
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    Weiser_Cain polycounter lvl 18
    The normal map process is very un-art-like to me. It needs to be made a lot more non techy for guys like me. I imagine it will in time. Max 9 or 10 maybe?
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    I thought part of being a videogame artist was combining being a techy person with being an arty person?
  • Prs-Phil
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    Prs-Phil polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    I thought part of being a videogame artist was combining being a techy person with being an arty person?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I´ll agree with that

    That is even the extra bit that makes it really interesting.
  • j4polaris
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    j4polaris polycounter lvl 18
    I've found that if you have overlapping UV's when using the Nvidia Photoshop plugin the normal map ends up turning half your object inside-out.

    Do you guys know if this happens if you have overlapping UV's and use a high-resolution model as the normal map?
  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    j4polaris: That's most likely because your layered UV's were made from a mirrored copy of the mesh?
    Most game engines have coding to compensate for mirrored UV's, but if you're just looking at the normal-map in 3dsmax or some viewer that doesn't support mirrored UV's, then it's gonna look wrong regardless of whether you're painting them by hand or generating from high-res geometry.
  • Ninjas
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    Ninjas polycounter lvl 18
    I'm still learning but what I did is output a normal map from Max using a lowpoly and meshsmoothed version of my character and combined this with a displacement map I painted for the same character by using the Nvidia plugin and layering it over the other in PS as an overlay
  • Weiser_Cain
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    Weiser_Cain polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I thought part of being a videogame artist was combining being a techy person with being an arty person?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I´ll agree with that

    That is even the extra bit that makes it really interesting.

    [/ QUOTE ]To a certain extent yes but normal mapping just feels like it needs better tools. Maybe it gets better when you get use to it, but for now it pulls me out of the zone faster than uvmapping.
  • j4polaris
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    j4polaris polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    j4polaris: That's most likely because your layered UV's were made from a mirrored copy of the mesh?
    Most game engines have coding to compensate for mirrored UV's, but if you're just looking at the normal-map in 3dsmax or some viewer that doesn't support mirrored UV's, then it's gonna look wrong regardless of whether you're painting them by hand or generating from high-res geometry.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Gotcha MoP. That's exactly why that was happening. Thanks!
  • Helvan
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    Helvan polycounter lvl 17
    Yea I'd love to have some sort of a 3D input device that could be used to paint in normal information directly onto the model in real time, like a 3D wacom tablet or ZBrush without the poly geometry. Maybe the new Nintendo controller will lead to these sorts of tools being developed?
  • Eric Chadwick
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    Helvan... SensAble Technologies
    Still polygons, but it's haptic!
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