MGS2's raiden

greentooth
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thomasp greentooth
after playing through MGS2 recently i started working on this. it's going to be a little side project aimed to improve my normal mapping workflow and rig setup. i want to find a way to animate the hair in a realtime-engine compatible way but with good looking results. but for now, modeling, texturing and shading is what has to be done smile.gif
the hairdo is just in the beginning stages. i realized that i need a more dense alpha for this, especially for the hair strands on his forehead.

raiden_head_wip.jpg raiden_mesh_preview3.jpg

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  • Thermidor
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    Thermidor polycounter lvl 11
    i would bone the hair ... make a few manipulators and it would be farly easy to have this work ...

    nice skin , what shader you using?
  • johnwoo
    This is looking exceptionally good...the skin texture, the hair, the head and face...even down to the lighting is lovely...good job thomasp....Excellent work so far.. smile.gif
  • Josh_Singh
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    Josh_Singh polycounter lvl 12
    He looks like david bowie! hahah. Nice stuff.
  • motives
    argh not raiden, ruined msg2 :P

    seriously tho, lookin real good. like the hair and that hader is indeed real good.

    however his eye seems to have a rather strange shape? looks like a pear
  • Downsizer
    Texture looks excellent. I have to disagree on the David Bowie reference though. I'm currently modeling David Bowie for an undisclosed reason, and his features are very blocky, less sharp then this models.
  • Cubik
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    Cubik greentooth
    Great job! Good to see that you have stepped anyway from the animestyle used in MGS2. Fantastic skin texture. The knees look a funky, I guess the body is still a w.i.p?
  • Silva_Spoon
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    Silva_Spoon polycounter lvl 11
    ahhhhhh its a bleach-blonde Michael Jackson!
    ***runs away***
  • Steakhouse
    Haha, Raiden MADE MGS2. No one understands why so I'll post the following link to help explain.
    http://www.insertcredit.com/features/dreaming2/index.html
  • thomasp
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    thomasp greentooth
    i have to strongly agree here. raiden made mgs2 special. i have not played part one (will twin snakes arrive at the ps2 at all? i can't be bothered to either get that old ps1 game or a gamecube just to play tts) but for me solid snake in the tanker episode was just another cold blooded action hero, quite boring except for otacons interpretations of chinese words of wisdom wink.gif
    after all i found mgs2 to not be a "real" video game but more of a very well told, surprisingly deep story, held together by interactive parts.
    those who skip the cutscenes and radio communications are really only getting a very short sneaking game with difficult/complicated controls. splinter cell seems a more appropriate choice for these folks.
    that article is pretty good, thanks steakhouse.
    anyway, i hope snake eater features a story as deep and weird as mgs2 has one and is not just another straight action flick.

    as for the technical stuff - raiden wears protective caps on knees and elbows, that's what's sticking out here. it wasn't
    too evident in the ingame model but it can be seen on the toy figure - have some shots of it. body model is still wip, a few accessoirces are missing right now and of course his weapons (sword and pistol).

    the shader is nothing complex - a standard max blinn shader with normal, color and specular maps attached, i still have to include skin pores and lip detail.
    the shape of the eye is still undecided. it's the way his eyes seem to be shaped according to most mgs2 footage i have but it might also be related to his common facial expressions.
    but since i'm going towards a more "realistic" style anyway, i might as well change that.

    as for the hair animation - yeah that's the obvious solution but it's annoying to animate with that. for me it always means that i start getting lazy to animate the hair and thus leave a lot to be improved.
    i'm more thinking about doing dynamics simulation and bake that to strands of bones afterwards. as said it should be something that allows for export into realtime engines. low bone count, possibility to optimize/reduce the baked keys afterwards, good looking result, that's the target.
  • Josh_Singh
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    Josh_Singh polycounter lvl 12
    Yeah, I agree. I liked Raiden. thomasp, If you play mgs3 they make some pretty funny jokes at raiden's expense. I really like this model, But I agree about the eye shape. It's bugging me. bring those outer corner eye verts in a bit.
  • Steakhouse
    Hey, hey, hey, whoa! Let’s slow that roll there. I never said I liked Raiden, he'll I think he's a terrible character and would have truly preferred to play as Snake. With that said I point again to that article I posted above and as that once you understand why Raiden was used you'll know why he was integral to the game and it's completely over the top presentation.
  • Steakhouse
    Getting on to the model though, Raiden was created to be a pretty boy or Beautiful Man as they call them in Japan. I would suggest playing that aspect up, smoothing out the skin, pulling the back of the nostrils up a hair, make the eyes a smidge larger, and work in a bit of eyelash. As for everything else you seem to have captured the sharpness of his features pretty well.
  • moose
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    moose Polycount Sponsor
    "i cant even stand talking to you, you're annoying the crap out of me!"

    Best line in MGS3, by far.

    looks pretty cool, the lips seem a little strange, like the corners are pushed out too far, or the lips in general are pushed out too far. the stomach - hip area looks smashed, and really accents his... package. it looks pretty unatrual.

    the head texture looks cool!
  • gauss
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    gauss polycounter lvl 12
    Steakhouse: interesting link, but he really doesn't articulate a whole lot about MGS2 other than how brilliant he thought it was. and frankly his opinion is pretty much invalidated after this passage:

    [ QUOTE ]

    How did I get from one extreme to the other? Simply, I played the game again, not skipping the plot sequences. I reread some modern Japanese literature. I found a picture of Yoko Ono in an old Rolling Stone magazine, cut it out, and taped it to my wall. I sat down, then, looked at Yoko, and thought.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    about all he sums up is how he overestimates the heft of his own intellect and subscribes to the silliest sort of esoterism with regards to japanese culture. man people just don't get MGS2, man, it's deep, it's postmodern. sure guy, maybe it's postmodern, but the controls for all the MGS games are strictly pre-modern. smile.gif

    that said i'd desperately love to know how i could possibly enjoy any of the MGS games. i've tried but they just drive me nuts, if i could just watch the whole game with no interaction i'd be much happier... which makes me realize i should probably hunt down some cheats or save game files smile.gif


    anyhow, back to topic.... Steakhouse is definitely right, though i love where you're going with him if you want to be true to the character as you can he definitely needs to be more beautiful. skintone is too realistically male at this point laugh.gif
  • Steakhouse
    But he did articulate Raiden's position in MGS2. He was a game character looking out onto what is effectivly a video game plot. Snake couldnt have been the one to do this because he's become too real a character. Raiden was just as rediculous as the game, there for he was the only one qualified to comment on it. That and the plot itself, while incomprehensable, is much easier to swallow when you understand that it was meant to be so. The absolutly absurd moments, the over the top foes, all become acceptable when you know that it's completely intentional and that the player isnt supposed to be taking it any more seriously then the game takes itself.

    It wasnt until MGS3 that I well and trully came to appreciate the feeling of the MGS controls. They gave me the ability to peek up and around an object, draw a weapon, fire, then quickly drop back down again. The feeling of shooting over and around cover made the game for me. It was amazing.
  • Scott Ruggels
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    Scott Ruggels polycounter lvl 11
    All this intellectual mumbo jumbo and philosphy crap... argh... Ift's it's not concerned with Logic as he says, then it has to be about emotions, and once again we get the pendulum between the rationalists and romantics swinging again, The rebellion against the traditions of old... only to find in 20 years tha easons for those old traditions is that they often worked and had a purpose...



    Anyway, about the model, having never played the MGS games, because I don't own (or want to own) a console (..as I hate all the console controls) the first impression of the model is the hair is well done, the face seems to have... almost too much detail, which to me seems that the edges need to be straightened here and there. on the whole body shot, he has almost womanly hips and a very narrow ribcage. Generally a male's ribcage is wider than his hips. If he's supposed to be that "Japanese" Androgynous look, then I don't wanna know and I'll head out.

    Scott
  • poopinmymouth
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    poopinmymouth quad damage
    Great job so far man, digging the meshflow. Any chance for a close up on the face?
  • Synista
    Scott:
    In the game, he also has womanly hips. =\
  • Steakhouse
    Ok I went looking for some decent screenshots of the Raiden game model for you and bloody hell if it's impossible to find anything larger then an inch by and inch out there. You're on your own man...
  • moose
  • Steakhouse
    Beautiful Moose, I'm sure that'll help Tom out smile.gif
  • Scott Ruggels
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    Scott Ruggels polycounter lvl 11
    [ QUOTE ]
    Scott:
    In the game, he also has womanly hips. =\

    [/ QUOTE ]

    *shudder*. Yes. he does. I'm outta here:

    Scott
  • Daz
    Pretty nice thomasp. From what I can tell, the bridge of your nose feels a bit too thin, and I think Raidens nostrils angle down more. In yours the bottom of the nose is angled up so that nostrils are clearly visible. That doesn't appear to be the case with Raiden. Great work though, look forward to seeing more.
  • thomasp
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    thomasp greentooth
    thanks people. i had to put raiden on hold since i'm currently working on proposals for local job opportunities but hpe to be able to return to him very soon.

    thanks for posting the pictures, however i'm not short on footage - i've hooked up my playstation to a video capture board - i have lot's of footage but even in close up it's low rez stylized stuff.
    currently checking reference material on male actors with some kind of girlish look to give raiden a bit more "life". the eye shape has already changed and i hope to post some pictures soon.
  • Steakhouse
    Try starting with Leo Decaprio. He doesnt have Raiden's sharpness, but he does have the smooth features.
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