WW2 German Infantry update
polycounter lvl 18
I finally finished extending this guy from bust to full model. That is unless anyone see's anything glaringly worthy of improvement. He's part of my big high res demo reel push, and will post some shader/materials render tests later.
Replies
EDIT - After looking back over the shots, I thought it might be worth detailing out the eagle insignia on the breast pocket and the collar patches rather than just having a raised up section to represent the 3d shape.
Will throw up some control cage shots in a bit Sean
Textured cages:
and a cheeky ambient occlusion pass using the awesome dirtmap shader ( it's so fast! ) for mental ray
So thats a SubD model then? How do you apply that ambient occlusion map in Maya? Is it worthwhile to apply it to a low poly model? Like say in the 3 - 3.5 k range?
Its not a shader that ships with Maya. I'll try to find the link.
Oh.
I love the glasses on that last ambient occlusion render. Perfect. The trousers, boots and jacket sleeve folds are just excellent.
You are indeed "tha man".
Id love it if you rendered out finished versions of him in front back and side profiles at a good res to show the details. That way he could be used as a good refrence for making more nazi's.
Looking sexy as hell.
Where did you find that mess kit at? I haven't seen one that looked like that before. It's a very interesting set of shapes. ^_^
>> Doh! I meant canteen. Still looked cool.
You will have an awsome "big high rez demo reel" there.!
Win!
b1ll
KMman, he doesn't have the mess kit actually. You might be looking at either the gasmask container or the canteen Im not sure. I left out the messkit, and the bread bag. But he has pretty much everything else they would have carried most of the time. I did *alot* of detailed research here and have good pics of every single piece of kit. AFAIK it's pretty bang on for about '43 or '44 ( cue post from Scott
check out his hands, i think it could use more work
they look kinda flat to me but i cant quite point it out
if the watch sits on the lowest place on the arm, just on the wrist, then the back of the hand is a little flat or long..
may be the bone structure of the thumb that is a little off?
i think its both, its picky either way
ur work and understanding of anatomy is good enuf tho to mind those little details tho, i suppose, but i may be wrong
ye i also think the folds r very well done and actually work as folds
good job!
Things I don't like:
1. The mesh of the lower arm doesn't represent the "twist of skin" it should have in the position you modeled it in (sorry can explain it better... just think about how the bones turn around each other and how the skin is twisted by that).
2. the shirt has very little detail below the arms.
his face, especially with the glasses, looks more like an officer than a grunt, maybe make him look more tired and gaunt and possibly make his glasses crooked
The only thing that stands out to me as a bit peculiar is the belt. It's hard to tell without an ortho view, but the belt looks to be cinched almost perfectly around his waist. With all that junk he has hanging from it, particularly on the rear left that's supporting both the knife and shovel, I'd think it out to pull down more. The only way to keep a belt with that much gear from sagging would be to cinch it quite tightly, in which case the grenade up front ought to have a more significant impression on the coat.
Regarding the hands, and I only have mine to compare with, I think the issue is with the thumbs. In that position, the tip of my thumb extends just a bit passed the first knuckle of my index finger; on your soldier, his thumb looks to come nearly to the second knuckle, though that might be a perspective trick. It also looks like the thumb might be too 'flat', meaning that it needs to be rotated a bit so the thumbnail is a bit closer to perpendicular with the finger nails rather than parallel. Again, though, it may be perspective.
Totally nitpicky, this guy is awesome and we're all looking forward to the 38-page tutorial
Tom: That's actually a really interesting crit and the weight on the belt is not even something I'd considered. However, looking back over my ref ( of which I have stacks ) of this kit being warn, both originally and with more modern high res shots of re-enactors, and surprisingly, the belt does seem to conform around the waste quite nicely without any sagging from the weight of the kit. I can only assume that the shoulder harness takes alot of the weight perhaps? Plus the grenade is obviously gonna tighten the belt but yes, you're absolutely right in that that would cause a bit more bunching up of the fabric than currently shown.
Thanks again all. A bit more modeling work left on him after all
The tragestelle or "Y-straps", are missing some detail, like the two "supplimental straps that attatch to the tornister or Assault frame. When a pack is not worn the ends are usually tucked under the waistbelt. The MP-40 pouches usually come in pairs, and the left one has an extra small pouch for a magazine reloading tool. The one you have does not have any loops in the back for the belt. The "D-ring", you have the canteen attatched to would be good for the left side of the front "Y-strap" if you only want one MP-40 Mag pouch. Speaking of the belt. the equipmment you have is good, but it's not all there. The Cas Mask Canister is missing some of the details, and there is no "Breadbag", on which the Canteen (feldflasch) is usually attatched.
So in regards to the belt, I went into my closet and pulled out my German infantry equipment and took really bad digital photos of it for you, in hopes that this will aid you in getting a better idea of the belt layout.
Here's the veiw of the reverse of the layout.
Now I am a big guy, and most of these folks at the time weren't, so "real estate" on the belt was limited, so they tended to carry the bayonet over the Spade, so that the belt loop of the frog was between the spade carrier's belt loops.
This is how the Canteen attatches to the Breadbag. The Canteen clips to the leather re-enforced D-rings at the front base of the belt loop, and then the strap that secures toe cup to the canteen, slips through a leather loops stitched into the front flap of the breadbag.
The bag usually carries small essential items, like the days rations, utensils and small personal items, and is fairly roomy.
Here it is, opened. up.
For comparison's sake, here is an Afrika Korps Set. Showing the plastic coated Feldflasch, and Mess tin. (The strap on the mess tin is looped through a D-ring and leather loop on the opposite belt loop from the one on the Canteen.)
Thenext item is the Gas Mask Cannister, It attatches to the belt like so, Note the small hook. that is clipped to the bottom of the cannister. while the shoulder loop goes up over the right shoulder.
Heres the Cannister away from the belt
Heres Detail of the lid, it's latch and the two wie loops for the shoulder strap
Finally we get to the tragestelle or "Y=straps" Here is my set out on the table, showing the supplimental straps.
Another view of the Y straps.
Details of the hardware and fasteners at the ends of the straps.
Detail of the D-rings, and the large metal ring where they all meet in the middle, Note the fold over and the color change. The leather is shaved on the outer surface, so that the smooth side of the leather is against the uniform.
Here are the standard Infantry pouches for the 7.92x54mm Mauser ammunition for the Kar98 rifle front and back views.
Hopefully this will give you a better idea of what the average combat load for the wehrmacht and Waffen S.S. combat infantryman was like. Hope this helps.
Scott
Lookin' good regardless!
btw that last image has an extra G in it.
Scott
Well now, no more "throwing down" ww2 info for me. Scott is liable to kick my ass with knowledge
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What, and you ever thought you had a chance against the legendary Mr. Ruggels?!
Scott
Pocket tweaks: Sweet, no problem there.
Supplemental straps for the Y straps: OK I fess up. I saw them late in the day in the ref, and decided I couldnt be bothered. Lame of me! Youve noticed it, so Im putting em in. I see theres a lot of extra detail in their construction that I missed too.
MP40 ammo pouches. OK, to be honest, about 90% of the ref I found of a German soldier carrying an MP40, they were indeed on both sides as designed like you say. However, a very small percentage of them werent. I actually had them both in there, but quite simply, I much preferred the asymmetry of only one. I dunno, visually I just found it more interesting.
Gas mask canister *might* have all the detail you think is missing, you just cant see it I dont think. Pic ( and close up of canteen attachment arrangement ) :
Bread bag: I simply didnt like the look of it, so left it out. But I think youve tempted me to put it back in. And therefore also re-arrange how the canteen is attached.
Mess kit: I really left it out cos things were starting to get so cluttered, and I had plenty of ref of them not carrying it. I might throw this back in. Not sure.
Shovel/Knife: Now, I noticed that often the K98 bayonet was often strapped to the shovel for real estate reasons like you say. The main reason I didnt do this ( and I did find some ref whereby the bayonet was attached separately ) was readability. I think it just felt a little harder to read visually with that arrangement. If its not a heinous crime, I think Im sticking to plan A with that.
I have one remaining question and thats really about the helmet. I cant quite find the right insignia for the time. Hes not SS, just regular infantry. So from what I can find, there wouldnt be any insignia on the helmet. Is that true or no?
Oh and btw, is that original kit or replica that you have there?
Again, cant thank you enough Scott. Let me know if you need any high poly modeling tips with the Japanese soldier.
This is indeed why PC rawks!
Scott, thanks for the equipment pics, I have been playing around with a high poly Waffen SS trooper in fall camo and this will help immensely on the equipment.
One thing Scott, the link to the 7.92x54mm Mauser ammunition pic doesn't work (goes to a 404).
Great thread!
Tom The reason the belt doesn't sag is not just because of the Y straps, but because there are small aluminum (aluminium for those in the U.K.) hooks that emerge from one of three vertically spaced small holes in line with the center pleats of the front pockets. Originally the soldier was not issued "Y-Straps". and it was assumed that the cotton web straps inside the tunic would hold up the equipment, but that didn't work so the Y-straps usually only issued with a cow hide flapped back pack , or assault pack, became general issue after the polish campaign. but the belt hooks were retained and supplimented the Y straps, until the M-1944 uniform.
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Well I'll be damned. Since there weren't any visible belt loops, I assumed those Y-straps had to distribute all the weight and seemed likely to sag near the hips, but this makes more sense. Pretty clever design. I'd guess I had better keep my mouth shut before I give Darren any more bad advice. You're an amazing resource, Scott - excellent crit for me too
scott ruggles will have an orgasm
im logging the f*** out of here
Anywah, back to Daz. On one of the shots I have photoshopped on and marked where the belt loops would go. Also I figured ouw that the main problem of the pockets are, in that the inside edges of the pockets should line up.
Another thing that comes up, in regards to the Helmet. It's an M-42 Helmet (flared, rather than rolled and beaded edge), what "year" is this guy supposed to be? as it has bearing on his equipment and color. One of the big things was that on tunics issued after 1940, that weren't officer wear, it was common for the buttons to be enameled the same "feldgrau" color as the tunic (though they darlened slightly due to finger oils and often scratched or wore, showing the aluminum underneath.) And because he hs carrying an MP-40, I am assuming he is an NCO? (Early on NCO's would have tracers in their MP-40's so as to use it like a "pointer" to direct their troops shooting. They abandoned this practice, when they figured out tracers worked both ways). If he is an NCO, he has no "Combat Award" on his left breast pocket. These are usually given out as X-Number of days doing such and such, or X-number of successful assaults. They are achievement, rather than Campaign awards. And he would at least have the "Rifleman", or "Assault" badges. I can provide reference if needed, but the Tunics I have are all in Oregon.
Okay, on specific details here and there. The canteen cup you have is one of the early war "Bakelite" models (Real ones from the time ring like bells almost, fake plastic repros just "thunk" like plastic.) This was usually replaced later by the Aluminum cup variety, which siurvived into the 1970's with the Bundesgrenschutz. But the bottom of the bakelite cup, has a groove, for the leather or web (Afrika and Ersatz) strap to pass through and retain the cup. The crescent shaped "feet" on the cup on either side of the groove are hollow and countersunk equal to the flat portion ofthe groove.
On the canteen itself the hook you have looks a bit more "East German" rather than Third Reich. Here's a shot of the back of the canteen (Aluminum Cup) with the hook pushed up to show it's shape and working
The Gas Mask Cannister, the ends are a little off. The Lid has a rolled edge, and comes up to a very shallow conic section, and THEN has a flat top.
The bottom is not flat, either, and is sunken in, and has a circular stiffening rib on the botto. These cans are tough, and are double walled steel and as close to air and water tight that manufacture allowed at the time. (don't fall back on one, it does horrors to your back)
Speaking of backs, Here what the end of the "Y-Strap" looks like. If your man is of average for the time height, then the steel hook sewn into the strap would hook under the belt. If he's a little tall, then he may have a leather loop with a "D-Ring" hooked to the back, and the belt passed through the loop. Also not the rather complicated adjustment araingement.
As to the Helmet Insignia, it was ordered that the helmet Decals be painted over. however, rear line units, or units that had Helmet covers, tended to ignore the order. (S.S. Units especially). However most m-42 helments were never had the decal applied. (S.S. Units being the exception). Decals were applied at the point of issue, anyway, not the manufacturer. So it would be likely that he would not have a decal,but just in case you need reference, here'sa closeup on one of my helmets.
As to the issue of clutter. Well to me, nothing says to me "Combat Infantryman" more than a profusion of "crap" on his belt and person, modified by the desire to maintain a low weight, and noise discipline. As to the Asymetry, well, he needs "something" on the other side of his buckle. May I make a couple of Suggestions?
1.) a Standard Mauser "Tri-Pouch". So he has some Rifle ammo as well?
2.) a Tool Kit for an MG-34, or 42.
This might be useful if the subject might be an assistant gunner for an MG team. Having a tool kit, though it would be worn on the "wrong" side as per Doctrine.
It may be that you would have to model an MG-42 then.
Incidentally, heres a link on how to fieldstrip and clean an MG-42 http://198.144.2.125/MG42/FULL/Disassembly.wmv
3.) You could give the guy a Luger holster. This re-enactor photo shows a not uncommon wear for the pistol. Tha advantage is that it has the same ammo as the MP40.
The white square on his tool pouch is an Asbestos pad, for removing the barrel and replacing it. Note also the subdued buttons. Also note that the shoulder strap leading to the holster is attatched to his belt with a leather loop with a D-Ring. Also note the "subdued" steel belt buckle (also lacking the pigskin pebbling pattern on it, being smooth). It may be to your advantage to model a low "dome" on the buckle so that is shades and reflects properly.
A note on the leather equipment. For the "Y-Straps", and the belt, they were made of Horse Hide, sothey didn't stretch at all, twist? a little but no stretching and little rumpling. Pistol Holsters were cow hide, so they dis stratch and conform to the pistol's shape over time. Shovel Carrier and rifle pouches were made of Pigskin, and were pebbled like the outisde of An American Football, and tended not to stretch much either.
As to the stuff being repro? some of mine is, but most isn't, which is a testament to German workmanship and wise choice of marterials. Of the WW2 stuff, it tends that British, U.S. and German stuff lasts. Italian doesn't, and the Japanese had a hell of a time adapting to the jungle environments so the leather gear rotted, so was not brought back as souverniers, much, and the Rubberized cloth disitegrated over the years due to the fact that natural rubbers and latexes dry out and turn to dust. So when protraying the geear, the wear may not be what you would expect, if your experience with leather is cow hide.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Scott
Much that the MG42 is a formidable and awesome looking weapon, I don't have time to build it. The MP40 is there so I'll go with that. But I like the suggestion of the Mauser ammo pack. I actually have that built allready.
I'm on a really limited time budget here ( for reasons I can't really go into ) so at some point my initial strive for accuracy will become a compromise. But I can't thank you enough for the advice and the ref.
So after the Demo Reel, you putting the mesh up for sale on Turbosquid? :-)
Scott
I dunno, hadn't thought about it. Do you really think that I could make any money there? Whats your experience with Turbo squid? This thing had been a labour of love and I'd loathe to just throw it out there unless it was of any real benefit to me. ( exposure is not a bad thing though I guess ) If anything, Id prefer to sell the fully smoothed model without history, since I'd be giving away so much more by giving away the control cage If that makes sense?
Scott
You know, you could just outdo Turbo Squid and just sell it through your own personal site. 100% profit without useless overhead. They take a sizeable cut just for hosting it. Then just advertise on cgtalk or heck even TurboSquid.
Oh and Scott? you scare me... badly.
Scott
Restructured hands and forearms, Added 'breadbag', Mauser ammo packs, previously missing harness straps, fixed gasmask cannister, lots of other little details. Still lots to fix ( I have obvious penetration issues here and there and no arm texture )
Im SO done with modeling bits and bobs! I'm getting a nasty moire in the tunic in my test animation. Anyone got any good insights here? I guess knock back the contrast in the thread pattern? And whats the best kind of filtering to combat it? I seem to have mip map, Box, Quadratic, Quartic and Gaussian at my disposal
Looks good.